Help a newbie plan her beds?

Hi, guys. I am just loving browsing the beautiful pictures you all post. So inspiring!

I'm starting my garden from scratch, and I thought I might get a little advice on the beds I'm planning. I've been helping a good friend with his garden for a few years, so I have a good idea of what I like. I'm just a little concerned about taking the leap. Wanna help? What do ya say?


SUNNY SUNNY IRIS/POPPY BED
Threw out all kinds o' poppy seed: California, Iceland, Oriental, Shirley
11 Oriental Poppy plants
9 Chinese Lanterns (3 Giants, 6 Minis)
9 Irises (3 Powder Blue Crested, 3 Best Bet, 3 Blenheim Royal)
Golden Chain Tree (she's tiny and will be on the north side, so she won't shade much)

PART SUN BED
Butterfly Bush
12 Lupine
5-7 Columbine
3 Mini Hollyhock
3 Mini Delphinium

SHADE BED (installed a waterfall/pond here this week)
1 Hydrangea
1 Hosta (don't know what she is...she was here when I got here)
1 Kimono Heuchera
2 Bleeding Heart
12 Toad Lily (3 Yellow, 9 Blue)
6 Lily of the Valley
5-7 Cyclamen
1 Jack in the Pulpit

FIRE LILY BED
12 Dwarf Cannas
6 Cannas
5 Red Aztecs
12 Daylilies (reds and yellows)

NARROW BEDS (along a perimeter fence)
12 Baltic Ivy (in pots)...I got some willow fence on Vic's suggestion for the time being. Thanks!
5 Trumpet Creeper
1 Maypop
1 Clematis
12 Foxglove

Okay, and so if you're not asleep by now, I've got some basic questions:

1) Are the groupings okay in terms of water, sunlight, aesthetic?

2) What about bloom times? They all say "late Spring" or "early to mid summer." I'd love to get an idea of the cycles of color I'll see...though waiting to find out might be twice as fun. ;)

3) ((the really foolish question)) If I plant perennials in the next two weeks, will I see blooms this year?

4) Am I making any big mistakes here? I've heard warning about Lily of the Valley taking over. Columbine likes shade, but they did so well with lupines in my neighbor's garden....hmmm....

5) Any other suggestions/additions? What about some annuals while these get established? What would go well?

This might be a huge (and boring?) task, but if anyone's willing to help, I'd be your best friend forever. All comments are welcome! Thanks!

Hi, Brooklyn Girl!
Lily of the valley will try to take over but you are a couple of years away from that yet. keep an eye on it after the second year.
Blooms from first year planted perennials are a gift. Sometimes you get this gift and sometimes you don't. The little saying for perennials is: The first year they sleep, the second year they creep and the third year they leap! It has a lot to do with the amount of care you give the plants and the amounts of water and sun they require and what they actually get.
the bleeding heart, toad lily, cyclamen and jack in the pulpit are all early spring bloomers. you might want to try something that blooms a bit later on in the season like Astilbe or some ferns for nice leafy texture.
The columbine will likely dump seed and spread. they can stand sun and shade. I have them growing in both places in my garden. and they have spread both places. Keeps my garden club plant sale going.
as for annuals, put a few in to plug the space up left by the smaller perennials. If your garden is successful, you won't have to do as much in later years as the perennials will fill in nicely.
oh, and as this sounds like a very ambitious project, don't forget to mulch. I have a large south facing bed that I had to let go last year because I was sick and the grass took over. A couple of bags of mulch would have saved my back and knees this year getting the stupid grass out.
in each bed, after the first year, don't be afraid to dig something up and move it if you determine it could use a better spot, or it's getting too large for the one you originally put it in. Gardens aren't static, they are always a work in progress. Read about the plants that you are using. Read the garden catalogs that now that you are a gardener you are going to start getting in the mail all the time. The plant files here at DG are great! There is a lot of great information out there. I belong to our local arboretum and the state Horticultural society both of which have libraries I can use. Also, taking a walk through their gardens gives me ideas for mine. I can also see what is growing well there.
And, last but not least, if you really want a plant to live, it may not. If you want it to die and go away, it will grow like crazy!
Good luck with your garden,
Martha

Martha, I like your last tip.

My advice is do what you are doing, plant what you like. Then when you don't like it there, move it over here. That's what everyone does usually. A few fall plantings and an evergreen shrub might also be nice to extend the season, like mums or asters or dwarf conifer. I like that you have put some shrubs in your beds already like hydrangea and butterfly bush. Pay attention to leaf textures as well as flower color and height of plants. Try not to plant things too close, famous last words, but try to pay attention to plant spreads because they will grow large in a few years. Annuals as you said can fill the gap and I agree mulch to help suppress the weeds and retain moisture. Don't be so ambitious that you burn yourself out in your first year of gardening. Getting a perfect garden takes a lifetime I think,but you can get close maybe and please yourself first because if you don't like it you will soon lose interest. Patience is a gardeners best attribute and the number one rule is have fun. Martha's last tip is soooo correct . Good luck to you and take pics so you can track your progress and remember who lives where.

BG, I notice that you have not listed any spring bulbs. I wouldn't enjoy March thru May without colorful daffodils. Their leaves generally disappear in late June when your summer perennials will be peaking. I like crocus, tulips and other smaller bulbs too, but unfortunately so do the local rabbits and chipmonks. However there is enough variation in color and bloom time of narcissi that they will make a good show by themselves.

Your bleeding hearts (Dicentra spectabils, not exima, which are nice also) tend to disappear in summer too. I put some catmint beside mine, which covers the empty space nicely, and for a week or so you get them blooming together.

From bitter experience I second Ngams advice on planting too closely!

Thanks so much, Martha and ngam. I am going to look into astilbe, mums, asters and/or dwarf conifer. You're so right, Martha. The Plantfiles at DG have been a huge resource already....I'm still finding my way around here, but what a treat to have found this site! You guys are the best.

I'll try to chill a little to avoid burnout and disappointment. It's just tough for a farm girl with her hands back in the dirt to not get too dern excited! I've been plotting and scheming for four years, and now it's finally here. Wonderful!

As for mulching, I will plant about 1/3 of my plants when they arrive this week, and the rest will come in spurts over the next 2 weeks. Should I mulch the new ones right away or wait for it all to go in?

ngam, you mentioned leaf textures...do I have somethin' in my list resembling a Mary Kate Olsen outfit (i.e., kinda funky, but in the end, it just doesn't go?)?

Thanks again for your help, my friends. I'll take some pictures when those plants I dislike start spreading like wildfire. ;)

kim

It's your garden. But some plants are special because of their leaf textures. They stand out. You don't really want to end up with too lopsided a display. But that's what the 'dig it up and move it someplace else' is for because most perennials can be moved without too much trouble the second year should you decide you like the look better somewhere else.
Just go with the flow. see how it turns out. Some patience is key when dealing with shrubs and perennials.
Martha

Everyone has given excellent advice. Advice that whether experienced or not we all have to remind ourselves of from time to time. Don is right about the bulbs, even Snowdrops will brighten your day on a chilly late winter morning and Crocus serve as excellent spring indicators in your specific area. I would definetly put some on the list for fall planting.

Planting too close is one of my chronic afflictions but I take a spade once or twice a season to alleviate the symptoms... would save a lot of work if I took ngam's advice from the start, but it's hard to see all that empty space between plants and not want to move it over 6" more! (of course you'll be moving it over again 1ft next year). Developing transplanting skills and knowing when to transplant is of paramount importance. Cyclamen has never worked for me, (summer heat), but they may for you.

I try not to give advice because everyone has their own technique which works for them. Although all the advice above is excellent by some of the best in the NE. My specialty is Bonsai, so when it comes to gardening I listen to everyone, (...well almost everyone...Hee hee!). ☺

All great advice, brooklyn. I will dissent on one issue though. I would rather plant too closely than not. The best weed preventer is dense planting. And since all the ones on your list are relatively small, manageable perennials (with the possibly exception of the spreaders), it's no big deal to move them. Full beds look much more appealing to me than spotty ones.

I am big on shrubs so I would second that suggestion, if you like them. You answer to nobody but yourself! There are many small shrubs that will work in all light conditions. The right ones will give you multi-season interest, including some structure to look at in winter. If you're into it, you can also add garden sculpture or ornaments. I second Don's bulb suggestion as well. The only other general tip I would give is to try to avoid onesies and twosies. Repetition and 'massing', even on a smaller scale, is very pleasing, at least to me.

Most of all - have fun! Change things if they don't appeal to you and learn what works in your particular area.

Wow, thanks again, guys! Catmint--def. going in the shade bed, Don. And I think I'm going to go nuts in Fall with all of the bulbs I want to plant: tulips, daffs, crocus and lilies for sure!

I love the idea of being able to move things around. Makes it all a little less daunting, so thanks for that, too. Learning to transplant without killin' too much? Guess that will come with time (and more advice from DG!)...

I've been worried about it all looking too sparse w/ so many "sleeping" perennials, so I'm glad you won't think I'm nuts if I plant a little closely, Vic. Also, I loves me some shrubs, and multi-season interest is what I'm missin'. I'd love to hear your top 5 faves. Burning bush has intrigued me so many times, I just need to break down and get one.

Planting in groups of three or more: got it! I love the look of 'mass' plantings, so I'm grouping, grouping, grouping.

Thanks again, everybody!
kim

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Viburnum (many varieties - size will be your biggest concern, but there are small ones), itea, fothergilla, enkianthus, Spirea thunbergii 'Ogon', crape myrtle and Japanese maple, to name a few faves.

Thanks, Vic! I'm off to DG resources!

No problem. Did you say you installed a fountain? Can you post a pic?

Another favorite is Physocarpus 'Coppertina'.

Okay, when I say "installed," that would basically entail taking a plastic mold fountain out of its box, interlocking the pieces, filling it with water and plugging it in. It looks a bit cheesy now, but I've been wanting a rocky waterfall for years and I just don't have the stones (meant that figuratively at first, but I guess literally, too) to create one from scratch. Maybe in a few years.

Anyway, here's a pic. Once I get a hydrangea going strong behind her and other shady plants curling over and around her, she should look "real" enough...from a distance, maybe? For now, I love watching the movement and hearing the trickle through the window as I fall asleep.

Nice! It will look great once it's filled in with plants. I agree about the sound of moving water - it's very relaxing. Brings a lot more birds than still water too.

I am enjoying the last bit of Viburnum carlesii or Korean Spicebush. They get kinda big, but the pink snowball flowers on them are as fragrant as anything you'll ever smell. They have been in full bloom since the first of May up here in NE. YOu can smell my two bushes down at the end of the block when the wind is in the right direction.
NYBG up in the Bronx has a massive and impressive collection of hydrangeas. you might want to check those out in a few months.
JUst a suggestion!
Martha

There is a small one called 'Compactum'. Don't have it but it's supposed to have the same fragrance.

BG that looks similar to the rock waterfall fountain I just got, not exactly what I really wanted, but it does sound nice and the birds, especially the cardinals love it.

Deb, for now, it'll do, right? I actually love mine. Can't wait for the birds to enjoy it.

Vic, I ordered a some of your recommends today. Don, catmint's on its way.

I'm off to the flower market in Union Square this weekend for annuals (oh! and some astilbe). Somebody stop me! I've gotta eat this month, and radishes ain't gonna cut it! ;)

Martha,

I'll def. check NYBG in the Bronx. Thanks! As for viburnum, wish they'd had the carlesii compacta at Forest Farms. I may have mentioned that I lived in Korea for awhile, so it would have been kinda perfect....in a silly sorta way. On second thought, let me tell ya: after eating nothing but Korean food for a year, anything "Korean spice" makes my stomach turn! ;)

Seriously, I'll keep my eyes peeled, and maybe I'll get one soon. Thanks again.

kim

I think Rarefind has it.

Vic,

I think you're right. I found it somewhere through PlantFiles, but I wanted to order from one place to save on shipping. A good friend has had great luck with Forest Farms. He's jtb11377 on DG. I think he got his acer palmatum from there, and he's posted a pic. "Seiryu" I think. Funny aside: he chose it because his pup is named Sayuri!

Brooklyngirl - I would stay away from chinese lanterns unless you can control the roots. they are envasive. My wife wanted them a few years back and I spent two weekends digging them up and burning them. I made a large bed out of the area they were and am watching like a hawk for any signs I didn't get them all. The lanterns were kinda nice the plant was nothing to write home about.
Of course if your a Yankees fan - plant them all over the yard.

Victor, I smelled the flowers on them when I bought them for my Mother's Day present lo these many years ago. I have a huge hillside and so there was not much need for a 'compactum' variety for me. These two still have all the room they want to grow and have done really well. I pick lots of bouquets from it and it helps keep it in trim. Nothing eats it! Supposedly it sets fruit, some, not much, which the birds are welcome to in the winter. But it really makes my Mother's Day to go out and sit on the stone step underneath it and just breathe!
Martha

Nice, Martha! I may have to squeeze one in somewhere. Lucky to have a hillside!

Well, a hillside really gets you into soil conservation. Do you remember geography from the 5th grade? Contour plowing, retaining walls, cover crops, and mulch? Cause if you don't, soon your neighbor downhill has all your soil! Of course, in the heavy rains, the neighbor has all the water that would be in your basement. I love my hillside. Fortunately, my son likes to garden and has built me some amazing stone borders and walls. We do have an amazing rock crop up here to work from. We have been busy reclaiming the southwest bottom of the hill corner from 2 public works projects. But the hosta is up and out down there, the daylilies are huge plants at the moment and there are buds on the bearded iris! I think the squirrels dug up the little daffodils I put down there as they disappeared. But hey, it's going to look great Next year for sure! Here's an idea of my hillside. I call this my :"outdoor bonsai" because the pine tree sprouted in the crotch of the oak shortly after we moved here 25 years ago. I have left it since then only have cut one branch that got broken in a windstorm. But you can see down the hill. I am standing on what small flat top of the hill there is in between the drop off and the house. I wouldn't even have that much had we not built an addition and the foundation guy gave me about 6-10 feet all around with the giant chunks of stone he dug out of there, but that is another story!
Martha

Very nice, Martha! I love the opportunities that hillsides present. Terraced gardens, ground covers, plants that thrive in well-drained conditions, etc. Also, it's like taking a flat art canvas and elevating it so you get the third dimension.

Hello, all. I've had my hands away from the computer (and in the dirt) for awhile, but I'm back to say thank you thank you thank you. In these last few days, things have started to sprout and/or come together in my little space. Lots of work left to do, but I'm loving it. I think of your advice often...thanks again!

Deb, i love my fountain more each day. ;)

kim

I love mine too, I was sitting out on the deck with a cocktail, listening to the fountain and smelling the lilac in full bloom, perfection!!

okay, last one...i'm acutely aware these pics aren't the usual DG show pieces, but i'm new to this, and I'm thrilled!! look! beans are sprouting!!!! yay! thanks again for helping me get started, you guys. you're the best!

btw, Vic. This is the cotton seed I have:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/82273/

Commonly called Pima or Supima. Happy to send it if you're interested (a little thank you for your help), though it looks like it may be invasive if you don't deadhead.

Any others who'd like it, let me know.

kim

Where did you get that trellis? wow! i love it!!
Martha

Looks great, Kim. I think I'll skip the cotton, thanks. I have enough invasive seeders already! Maybe a cotton/polyester blend would be better behaved...

I agree - that trellis is FABULOUS!

Brooklyngirl, all gardens start out as shabby looking, sort of empty, dark places. What time does will astound you, and you'll appreciate all of these pictures you took. You'll be amazed at the difference next season. If everything looked full and wonderful now, you'd have a lot of transplanting to do next year. Some things you do will work, and in other ways the garden will show you what it wants to be. The pictures you've posted only aren't "show pieces" to anyone who isn't a seasoned gardener, because anyone who has been at it for a few years can "see" what your wonderful garden will look like in the future. You've done a great job, and have great taste!

The only thing I have to say... and I think this was from another thread... seriously re-think the variegated Bishop's Weed. Pot it if you must have it. You may look at it now and think that it's not spreading quickly, but what the roots are doing would astound you. The variegated doesn't spread as quickly as the plain green, but it will eventually overtake everything. It kills other plants by burying them in shade and removal is insanely difficult because one little piece of root left in the ground will come back with a vengeance. I'm battling it in several areas and the sight of it actually angers me!!!

Thanks, guys! I actually made the trellis....time-consuming but really quite easy. I was at a friend's for the weekend, and I found a book with all kinds of ideas for green wood. Fun, fun, fun, but make sure to wear gloves. That wire tore the tips of my fingers to shreds! ;) If I get ambitious again, I'll try and make more...good xmas gifts for my DG pals, huh?

Miss fab, Bishop's Weed? Don't recognize the name....looked it up, and I don't recognize the plant! Where do I have it planted? I'll surely get it outta there and into a pot asap!

Also pretty set on doing the same with the physalis I've got coming. Many have warned me about that little bugger. I have some sandersonia, too (called "mini chinese lantern" sometimes). Wonder if that's the one I need to watch out for? Invasive?

Thanks again, guys!
best,
kim

oh, and here's a better pic from today....how wonderful that things change daily!

p.s. oh, patio furniture...you're at the bottom of the list!! i can't stop buying plants!

Hmm... Brooklyngirl, I could have sworn you posted a pic of it in this thread or another. I could swear it was you, but maybe it was someone else. My mind has been kind of fuddled these days.

LOL @ patio furniture... hee hee... I'm looking at old, beat up weathered chairs and brushing them up and throwing some poly over them. Cheap is good when there are plants and shrubs to be bought!

Broklyngirl That is a wonderful transformation, you should be really proud and sore.