I got this RIR chick at a day old, and its toes were fine, now it is about 2 months old, and both inside toes are bent in and she walks on them. The middle toes also bend in more than usual, although the pictures dont show it well. The other chicks all perch together, and this one cant get up there by herself. Is there anything I can do for her? She walks fine otherwise, and it healthy. I am just worried that this will cause problems as she gets older.
And another
Are you sure that is what is making her not be able to perch?
I'm not sure there is anything you can so for your little crooked to bird except get some silkies, so she has someone to sleep with this winter when it gets really cold!
Well Bob the duck will need someone to sleep next to this winter anyway...so maybe it was meant to be.
Here's a couple of links that could help, http://www.silkiechickens.com/curled_toes_in_chicks.htm and one from the guinea site http://www.guineafowl.com/fritsfarm/guineas/problems/
I have a guinea with almost U shaped toes and he gets along fine and roosts at night. Maybe she just needs time to adjust to her toes??? What size roost? I use those rounded off square 3 ft pieces you use to make a railing. He made it happily thru the winter and goes out with the group everyday foraging and chi chi-ing!
Hi,
It might be to late but certainly worth a try. I have this problem with chicks on occasion when my bator temps are to high. I duck tape their foot (toes) in the position they should be. They were the boot for a couple of days, until it falls off on it's own and they are fine. This has worked on several chicks but all were a few days old. The sooner you get them the better. At a couple months old such as yours, you will have to use a splint of some sort, stick, popsicle stick, pipe cleaner, etc. Give it a go, you've got nothing to lose!
Thanks for the advice. I am not sure that I will be able to help this chick. I have watched her for a few days though, and she can do everything the others chicks can. My vet said to leave it alone, and she will adapt. Hopefully she isn't in pain. :(
Mel, I just recently noticed that one of my year-old hens has badly crooked feet. She can do anything the others can do, so it doesn't seem to bother her. One of my earlier hens had feet so crooked, we couldn't see how she was able to walk on them. They curled up in a circle, but she also did fine. She wasn't in pain, but could run, jump, roost, and even flew a few times. So, I don't think your hen will have any trouble, either.
GG
♥^_^♥
I have a few hens that have crooked toes and they don't seem to be in any pain, and they get along just fine.
in case anyone has chicks with crooked toes, the link above is really ehlpful for making shoes for them out of tape...
tf
thanks tf. This chick was too old to splint I think, but she is fine these days. Those toes are still crooked, but she perches with the rest of the hens, and gets along just fine.
our Mini-O has one foot that is just awful, but you wouldn't know it!
the hardest thing to learn when you keep fowl is culling. nobody wants to do it, but .................., when someone comes to your place and see such, they are immediatly going to mentally question your standards, or lack there of. Anyone can throw some corn to a fowl, but to want to keep your flock in the best condition, there has to be a standard, not anything that lives gets to live. it could be from incubator temp, or it could be from condensed genes( deep imbreeding) these things should be expected in some flocks that are just there not monitored and history documented, not that yours aren't., but either way to cull is a nessecary part in proper fowl care, or else you end up with such things or worse. it takes the same feed to raise and maintain perfectly healthy fowl, as it does those that arent. your program will thank you for it later, or it will get to the point that you have to scrap them all, and start over.
I think you are absolutely right nc--if you are intending to breed. Or even just let them breed indiscriminately. But if you are a backyard chicken keeper with no roos and no intention of breeding, then why not? If you don't mind working with a slight handicap and the animal's defect does not interfer with its quality of life, I think it is natural to want to keep it.
Of course there is the danger that you will get so attached that later, if you are in a position to breed, you will overlook defects and not realize the long term danger of breeding from defective stock.
Also, if your livelyhood depends on it, then keeping unthrifty or underpreforming birds would be foolish.
But sometimes chickens are more pets than assests and the wonky ones are the most endearing. I'm still coming to terms with the fact that most of my roos are going to have a short life--it would be true in nature as well. But I want it to be as good as it can be for as long as it can be--and I am not going to be the one to eat them. At this point I can afford to be sentimental and unpragmatic:0)
yes ncchicken well said!
per usual, I tend to agree with most of what you say catscan, and I have been guilty of it myself, long ago. but about 12 or so years ago I was sitting on a feed bucket and admiring my fowl, and as I looked from pen to pen, I had a revelation, I was running a hospital for fowl. it seems funny now looking back. all the mothers with biddies, were on one end ( maternity), and then the brooder buildings and chick runs(pediatrics) and then the brood fowl, uh lets see hehe (fertility clinic) and then feedhouse, where I kept all the feed, vitamins, medicines ( cafateria,and pharmacy) then all the prime fowl, awaiting sale or comitment to a brood pen (waiting room) and on the end was every kind of crippled, old,infertile, laid out, one eyed, crooked toed chicken I ever raised. (retirement home) and then the pit (cemetary)
I sat there for some time, thinking how did I get here? Hundreds of fowl, a full 1/2 were either past thier prime, or would never get there. after all those years what had I learned. I sat there on that bucket till after dark, thinking how to fix it. I walked the lines for a few hours after that, before going to bed discusted.
the next weekend I decided to thin them out, ran a add in the trading paper, free fowl bring your own boxes, with my number, I gave away a hundred or so the next weekend, told them why I was giving them away, a month later I was still having some call gave away close to 200 I guess never counted exactly, but feed went down some. a year later I sold out, and moved to NC. I was never gonna have fowl again. I wasnt
but in 6 months I was jonesing like any chickenhead, if I was going to work in the morning and heard a rooster crow I would zigzag up and down the streets till I got to see what kind it was, lol . sad but true, and in a few months I drove back to WV to buy back some of my own blood( families) and I was off again, in 2-3 years I was back up to a respectable # ( 5-6 hundred a year range) but I had resorted back to my old ways, (feeding some inferior fowl) and doctoring ailing ones. but as we have been keeping better records of them, we started noticing links, some throw sicker fowl, some throw offspring that just dont grow as well as the others, even with same cock and diff hens. some have that hybrid vigor when crossed and some crosses flop. I had gotten right back where I was. but I saw it again
5 years ago I started a new program I call ruthless culling, the 1st year I culled about 1/2, the second year I saw my mistake and culled about 3/4 of the entire population here, I picked up every fowl on my place, one at a time and looked, and i mean looked for a flaw, any one flaw cost them thier life. God knows we were all sick of chicken for supper that fall/winter 2 freezers full, was giving them away. the next year was better with about a 20% cull rate, anything that had higher than that in the offspring was culled back into the broodpens. and after that it has been dropping more. not my standard,just the cull rate. with every breeding there is an outstanding offspring, that is the new standard.
though I am sentimental at heart, I am also a realist, that is I ponder the quality of life, to live a day as a lion, ar a lifetime as a mouse. do these defects cause any undo stress on the inflicted, I would say so. even as simple as crooked toes, it will cause stress, possibly long term pain. evrything is not aligned the way it should be. pop a small pile of tissue in the center, bottom of your sock, put on your shoes and go to wallmart, the tissues will not make it back home, as you will start off uncomforatable, and will most likely feel pain as far up as your back, or even get a headache. sounds like I am crazy, go ahead and try it. then there is the possibility/probability of infections. the toenail of these bent toes generally rub, or even cut the side of the center toe, better off if freeranged, or on course sand if penned. becouse they cant perch right the perch often becomes another source of agrivation, as they reposition thierselves all night, trying to get a better grip, which could lead to sleep deprivation, and that to a drop in thier immune systems intergrity. also since they cant walk or land as well from crooked toes I have found it leads to more inflictions of bummblefoot. infections of the foot. and while I have cut out many a stinking, hot, pussballs, cleaned with peroxide, and jenson violet, and sown up, it is something I never plan to do again.
think of Gods natural selection, in your pens, how long would a crooked toed chicken live in the wild, if left on its own. I have found that it is unwise to try to save that which god would let pass, as he always gets his, and we learn lessons for our troubles. some have to learn on thier own, but some can be taught, and skip that much effort. and some just dont slow down enough to let what they already know to be true sink in, cause they want to avoid it. but each to thier own, I only have an opinion, and that is all it is, but no matter how many you have, or for what reason, you have the responsibility to care for them, and thier wellbeing. and that is not just letting them live cause you love them, but being willing to make decisions that you have to cause they cant. would you build a dolly out of a skate for a crippled cat with bad back legs, so it could live, or would you put it to sleep, so it wouldnt go through life, pooping on itself. where is quality of life. cat, dog, fowl, no difference.I mean to offend noone, but thats my opinion
It really depends on how you look at it. If one has a small backyard flock it is unecessary to cull hens because of crooked toes. These hens are not being bred to breed standards, going to shows, or being released into the wild, they are simply pets to some. I also believe it is really hard to judge what one creature perceives as quality of life. Sometimes merely preservering may mean one has a desire to live, no matter the cost. just mho too though : )
my little guy floppy is sure doing better. & he won't be good for anything... now if i had 600 birds for breeding, with the price of feed i would cull away! fill the freezer!
tf
No, I see your point. I think it is irresponsible to propagate chickens that will be deformed and in pain. However too often (not in your case) people get into "the looks" of animals--and far from improving a breed, they weaken its usefulness and health by going solely for visual "impact". In general one can do a lot to modify animals to meet your expectations, and it can be natural and beneficial to both human and animal species to do so. But you can also create creatures whose "usefullness" condemns them to suffering, or whose aesthetic appeal undermines all usefullness and causes additional suffering.
I think responsible breeders like you are doing the right thing. Any breeding program will deteriorate rapidly, especially with line breeding, if you don't cull rigorously. I am a plant breeder/pathologist by training--but I chose plants largely because the cull doesn't bring up ethical issues for me. If something has the capacity to climb in my lap, look me in the eye, and express emotion--I have problems. And as someone who lives with chronic pain due to "biomechanical" problems, I have to admit I still enjoy life. I think there are clear cases where culling is an act of compassion--and other cases where what one choses to do has more to do with the situation. I have rescued animals I shouldn't have and then had to cull them. And I have rescued animals that no one else would have valued and they have meant a great deal to me and lived a good life.
You are attempting something I will probably never do, I don't have the temperament for it--but I think you are doing it the right way and are expressing a world of wisdom and good sense. Stronger people than I will benefit from it:0)
Okay--I'll probably benefit too!
Having read ncchickens response. There's a lot of truth in what was said. However It seems to me that there is an astounding difference between raising chickens for a livilyhood, or for a hobby. The relationship should dictate the culling issue. Just a thought. Haystack
i agree, well said.
I am a dyed in the wool city dweller and I just moved to a home, in the city, and inherited some lovely bantams. Problem: I've been careful to collect eggs each day, but the 'old hen' (who doesn't lay anymore, I was told) just had five chicks. We thought she was just old and lethargic and that was why she stayed in the back of her coop and rested all day. Not so! So now, we have five lovely chicks, one a rooster I think, and the mother has started pecking at their backs near their tail. They're red all down the tail area. What do I do? Is this dangerous? Is it time to leave mama? I'm not sure how old they are, they have pin feathers and one (the rooster I think) flew out of the pen with mama yesterday all by himself and did a great job of it. They're old enough for me to know that one is likely a rooster--it's feathers are coming in differently (white) and it's bigger that the rest. I have no more information that I can think of, but I'm concerned because no one seems to tell exactly what gets done as the chicks grow a bit older. Please advise me, I leave town in five days and won't be back for a week. I need to know what to tell the caregivers! (The picture was taken on June 18--so cute).
I'm so sorry. I posted my question in the wrong thread. I do have a bantam (the chick's mama) who has very long toes that curl around all over the place. It's hard to believe she can run, but she surely can! I don't expect any answers to my problem from this thread, and I'm sorry for the disruption. I need to go out for a while, and when I get back I'll try to sort out what to do about this. If you haven't guessed already, I'm very new to this, or any forum. It's the first time I've joined an internet community and I've only been here for a few weeks. Again, I apologize
Hi maggie! No problem with posting on the wrong thread--just won't get as many helpful answers. I think I would separate them from their mom, especially if you won't be there to watch.
If you show pictures of them now and what the conditions are in another thread, I'm sure you will get great advice;0)
I've started a new thread for my question about the chicks and the misbehaving mama. I don't know how to get rid of this one, but please just ignore it. Thanks for your post catscan.
no prob, happens all the time. and frankly, sometimes posting in a current thread is the only way to get attention quickly, when you need an answer immediately.
you are pretty sharp to already be able to start your own thread.
can't wait to see more pictures, i love Old English Game! i had the most beuatiful self-blue, but a feral cat, or my dog, got it ;-(
hope the answer i gave in your thread was helpful. gonna enjoy getting to know you, please let us know the results and post when you get back...
tf
I have an OEG hen too. She is weird, and we just call her Mop-top. Since I have been away lately, I havent been keeping up on this thread. I agree with everyone to a point or few. My flock is just for my enjoyment. We do sell the extra eggs, but we only have 15 hens, one rooster, and Bob the duck. I kept Gimpy the hen when others would have just put it down as soon as it hatched. Weather her naval didnt close due to humidity, temp, or a herreditary issues was no matter to me. She is great now, and lays an egg a day jsut like everyone else. My hen with crooked toes came from a breeder, and while she did develope the toe issue while living in the hen house outdoors..she also lays an egg a day now. As long as they are happy chickens, then I am a happy chicken mommy. :)
;-)
Melissa, I also have chicks with crooked toes. My Rocky has one toe that is turned in, and he is just fine. Some of the chicks I got from McMurray have crooked toes. I would never cull a chick with just that problem. I had one Araucana who's feet were so crooked, I didn't know how she was able to walk. But she did, and roosted with the others, too. One of my BAs has feet almost that bad, and some of the chicks I hatched has crooked toes, so I am sure it is heredity.
GG
I dont think I would ever incubate eggs from this hen...but I will keep her around to lay them. When we incubate next spring, I will have a seperate pen for the rooster, and the hens I want to breed him to.
You could maybe test out 1 or 2 to see if it is genetic.
I did have a HORRIBLE experience last night though! I went to turn the turkey eggs in the bator and they were cold!!! The bater was at 70 degrees, and I panicked! I figured out that the wire inthe buld broke. I found a new bulb, and started it warming back up. I dont know how long the bulb had been broken, but since the eggs were completely cold...I thought they were done for. I candled them after a couple hours...but nothing. I left them in there overnight, and couldnt sleep. Finally...this morning I candled again, and 2 of them meraculously survived! Only four were developing correctly anyway...so to save 2 of the 4 was so much better then nothing. I will keep the other two in for a day or so just to make sure. But wow...that was scary! Anyone have any advice on what else I could do to help the eggs out that were cold for so long?
That is a good point. I only raised one chick from each of last years hens anyway...so wouldn't hurt too much. I would rather let a hen sit on the eggs next year...but I dont think any of our chickens have gone broody yet. We have young hens from January...1 year old hens....2 year old hens...and a 6 year old hen. I think it is just easier to put them in the bator...but a lot more work for me!
wow that would be scarry, and a sleepless night for sure. Hope all goes ok, how long do they have left?
They have been in for 19 days...so 9 more to go? They are due next Saturday.
Cant wait to see and hear about them.
melissas, the others will warm back up in a couple of days and liely be just fine, so leave them in...
and really, i sitll wouldn't hatch her eggs. to see if she passes it you would have to hatch 50-100 of HER eggs, they wouldn't keep long enough to hatch them all at once.
why chance it when you have hens who are fine...
I dont think I would care to try to find out if it was a gene...but since I only raise 1-2 chicks from each hen...each year...even if it were hereditary, i dont know if I would ever find out. Since I pick the hens to breed (so I dont raise inbred chickens) I will just leave that one out. no biggy. I AM excited about the turkey though! I am really hoping for 2-3 to hatch. I dont want more because...well that is a lot of work, and I need at least 2 so they can go live in our ravine together, and hopefully not try to live in the hen house! I think that will be easier said they done though.
