Hey everyone, I am seeing quite a bit of disappointment about the condition of the David Liddle cuttings. This is completely understandable (both the disappointment and the condition of the cuttings given what what they have gone through in the last week). Please remember that these cuttings have been off the parent vine for over two weeks now, as David L. shipped two Mondays ago.
I remember my first order in 2006 with Christine Burton had major glitches as well. Please keep in mind, she is an experienced importer, yet our cuttings were in transit for well over 12 days. I lost more than half my order, and it was sickening.
I recently spoke with Ann Strahm, and while discussing our excitement about this order, not to mention our relief that we weren't hosting it, she reminded me that her first order was held up in customs, had one box missing, was federally ordered to not open the box she did receive, as there was a glitch with her permit, and was to advised to do an emergency soak by David Liddle when she finally did get them. Imagine having to stare at a taped up box that you know full well contain the cuttings belonging to at least 20 friends and co-collectors!! Yikes!! To top all of that, Ann Wayman's box was lost for 2 weeks after leaving Ann S.'s custody. All said cuttings rooted and survived for Ann W. Pretty amazing what these weeds can do, I think.
The last fall order, that I hosted, went off with nearly no glitches - however, I am convinced that my boxes were not opened, let alone inspected, as there was no USDA tape on them, just the original tape from the Australian agriculture dpt. Major difference there. Out of the 25 boxes I shipped, 24 made it to their recipients in 2 days. Mark's box was lost for quite a while. Just when things were looking their worst, Mark reported that his box was found, and all was not a total loss. Maybe Mark could share his experiences with rooting distressed cuttings.
Meltn (Melanie) has generously shared her early experiences with rooting cuttings from abroad, and also has given advice to novice importers about what mistakes and successes she has had, as well as how she roots cuttings now. This is presented on both this forum and MSN in a step by step format.
While the leaves on my succulent cuttings (rigida, merillii, sp. kalimatan, bilobata, and some unidentified spcs -pictures to come) look super, my thin stemmed and leafed cuttings are struggling right along with everyone else's. Ann S. by the way hasn't gotten her box yet, but isn't panicking, as she is fully aware that hoyas are in reality invasive weeds.
Some hoyas struggle under the best of circumstances - just ask me how many times I have failed with lambii, and eliptica while the cuttings suffered no stress. Most of you probably don't have time or the interest to read a complete list of the cuttings I have lost over my 3 orders of cuttings from David Liddle, but I will tell you that I have spent well over $100 on successfully getting a lambii cutting to root and grow. I realize that this is the chance that I take when I gamble on hoya cuttings from another continent. However all the losses and heartache are well worth the extensive and exciting collection that I am beginning to aquire.
Hopefully everyone will be able to see this experience as an opportunity - for what I don't exactly know. Perhaps it is just a few steps in the mile that many of us will never walk in the life of the collectors who bring hoyas back from the wild. Ha.
Sara
This message was edited Apr 14, 2008 6:59 PM
Reactions and "Non" to the David Liddle order
It happens. Last year we Canadians did an East and West order. The West order got here in record time while for some reason the East order was held up for over 2 weeks in Los Angeles of all places. It is the chance we take.
Most of the stressed out cuttings survived. They looked pretty sad and DH kept trying to throw them out, but persistence pays off!!
^_^ Sara, I haven't seen my bill from DL yet but I only ordered 6 cuttings and figure it's waaay less of a gamble than if I were in Vegas or anywhere that had slot machines!
I do hope I can get them to root, but being a newbie if by chance they all bite the dust, I will at least have had the experience of trying! And, I wouldn't blame the demise on the cuttings - I realize hoyas are pretty hardy plants if they can come all the way from Australia and still be showing green! If mine don't live, I'm sure it will be some cultural fault on my part ... and if they all die, I will just try again in the fall!
Now, I gotta go find the thread where you said Meltn has given advice on rooting!
Here is the cut and paste version of meltn's instructions for how she roots cuttings for all who are interested. I have followed these instructions and I too have had much success in my later orders.
quote:
Knoxville, TN
August 14, 2006
3:04 PM
Post #2622263
This is all good information. There is no better price or quality than the cuttings you get from David.
The last couple consignments I have gotten from David have resulted in very few losses. As said previously, I also soak all the cuttings over night in Hormex. I fill a tub at least a day before the order arrives and once I receive the order, allow the package to sit for at least a few hours before opening it. (Only if I have a great deal of control on that day) I always do this in a dark room. The idea is to let the cuttings get to aproximately the same temperature as the water or at least to reduce the shock.
After soaking them, I remove them from the tub, cut the ends with a razor blade and place only the cut stem in a bucket of water, which has also been sitting out for at least a day. I then leave them alone for a few days (in a dark room) to let them rest from their journey.
Then, I strike and pot them, put them in a mini greenhouse with heat pads (unless it is really hot). Since the mini-greenhouse is in an area with more light, I cover it with a blanket. Then, each day I roll up a little of the blanket to allow the cuttings to acclimate to light. This method has significantly reduced my losses.
Best of luck to all with your new cuttings. You are in for a real treat!
Mel
edited to add the link to the thread:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/639191/
Sara
This message was edited Apr 14, 2008 7:26 PM
Sara, Thank you so much!
There is nobody to blame whether these cuttings make it or not. Things happen. I hope there was no offense taken when I or anyone else reported the state of our cuttings. It's the same as when we show or tell about our new cuttings/plants - just sharing experiences, good and bad :)
Gabi
I have received numerous emails and dmails today in regards to H, sp sarawak IML 1752 as well as some other hoyas missing from peoples orders. The IML 1752 apparently was in very short supply and the entire shipment that I received only contained one cutting of that particular hoya.
dmichael
My cuttings looked bad when they came (some also appeared a bit frozen since it was below 32 Sunday night!). I soaked them in repotting liquid and cut their tips and planted them. All their tips oozed life, so I think they may be okay. They look a lot happier already.
I just took my cuttings out of their bath, and they actually look a little better! So I have much more hope now. The stems are now in water, and I will pot them up tomorrow evening. Now there are only 2 that look unsalvageable, and 2 that are very healthy. And the rest are definite possibilities!!
I think this will be a great experience either way. I am up for the challenge!
Gabi
For what it is worth:
My experience with keeping cuttings alive for 2-3 weeks before rooting them is to keep them moist (not soggy or soaking) and to keep air circulating around them!!!! This is VERY important.
Importing cuttings does not take experience: it takes a permit. Whether the cuttings are held up, stood up, shot up etc. is a matter beyond importing. Truck drivers, garbage collectors...yes...even retired women can fill out the forms and send an import permit. The trick is getting them, upon receipt, to grow.
1. Start in the most 'airy mixture' you can find. I use hydroton, perlite and black cinder. Roots form when they are LOOKING for moisture...not when they are soaked.
2. Even bald vines can be wrapped around a pot with a bit of weight at the nodes. 80% chance they will root.
3. Thin leafed vines can be treated like no leaves at all.....
This is NOT a big deal. hoyas are tough. Cuttings may take a bit longer than usual to root...maybe 2 months instead of 2 weeks....
Don't give up.....
Carol
That's the spirit, Sara. You have the right additude.
Did you receive your consignment, Carol?
Although it does not work for everyone, I like water rooting because I can see if the cut is rooting or rotting and stop the rot in it's tracks. I also have a tendency to tug at cuttings rooting in a soil less mix.
Like all bad experiences, if we can learn something from them, then it is not so bad. Several years ago a lovely lady named Patrica in California had her cuttings help up in customs for at least a month if not more. When she finally got them, they were fried.
I can't help but wonder if we might do better importing if we placed several smaller orders rather than these "mongo (large) orders you guys have arranged. Chris Burtons box still had the original seal and was not even touched. Could it be that the big orders call more attention than the smaller ones? I can't even imagine how stressful it would be to feel responsible for mailing 25-30 boxes on to fellow collectors. Heck, I was stressed when I handled 6-7 orders on one consignment.
Another advantage to the smaller orders is that if the cuttings do look too dehydrated, the host can take the time to soak the cuttings before sending them on.
I continue to maintain that we can share information and help each other with this import process. I liked Carols idea to build a bridge and walk over it. Good line, Carol!
Mel
Thanks for all that helpful info, Carol. I am going to try pinning the leafless part of the vines into the soil. Can that be done with a completely leafless vine, or does there have to be some leaves on it? I was thinking of cutting the long leafless part off some of my cuttings and wrapping it onto the soil, but wasn't sure it would root.
Thanks,
Gabi
I have a question. I am new to rooting cuttings of hoya and want to know if I need to cut the vines before rooting? I think I've read something where some folks are talking about cutting them.
I think it is better to make a sharp cut before rooting as it helps with the uptake of water. As well, it is best to cut until you see sap running....unless it is a species that does not have sap.
Mel
Thanks Meltn! I had already soaked them for a few hours in super thrive and potted them up but will go right now and take them back out and do the cut and I think I will soak them again in some warmish water and super thrive.
Yes...got our order yesterday bright and early. Except for a few thin leafed ones that had droopy but good leaves, everything was terrific...even H. linearis!!! It hadn't been opened either. I cut the new tips to the vines so that energy goes into roots not new growth. I 'coil' all bald vines...leaves or not....with the older part in deeper. Figure with a 50/50 chance this is better than dumping them!!! If I have a piece of stem before the first leaves, and that stem has a node, I root that separately with the node in the soil, just below it. i also try to stick all cuttings in at an angle.... I mist them daily with a 1/2 strength MSU fertilizer...yes, even with the high ambient humidity! i have a linearis living happily and I have NEVER watered it!!!! Wish i could use water rooting but they just rot!
Mel,
I think your idea of having many more smaller orders placed with David Liddle is a great one. 30 orders with 330 cuttings is just too much risk, and I would think that DL would feel the same way. It is too big of a target for the USDA, and too big of a loss for DL to absorb if it is destroyed in transit. Yesterday I was saying that I was never going to participate in another DL order after receiving cuttings in such bad shape, but today after reading all of the posts I'm feeling a little bit better.
Doug
I am strictly a soil rooter. I don't like to root in water because I tend to always somehow or another break off the newly formed roots when I pot them up. After speaking with Sara yesterday about some concerns I had with a few of mine she asked why didn't I just give it a try and see what happens.
So I removed them all from the aquarium that I had them in with bottom heat and overhead lighting,rinsed all of the soil off and put each one into it's own solo cup of water. This all happened yesterday afternoon (3 days after I received them) and at lest a half dozen of them had already pushed out those tiny stiff white roots about a 1/4 " long. Just in 3 days so I wouldn't be overly concerned with them not rooting.
In the event that something doesn't root and dies off completely,i'll reorder it on my next D.L. order if it's something that I really want. Not on my last order but the one before that I ordered H. telosmoides at a cost of $25. It died promptly upon arrival at my house. I reordered it on this order and it is one of the first ones to develop roots already.
This is what my cuttings look like today. There is still some yellowing of the leaves going on but they have all perked up and half are showing signs of some root growth.
Mine were looking ALOT better this morning, after soaking all night. Now, this afternoon, they are all potted and in their little mini-greenhouse. Grow babies, grow!!
Karen
All tucked in and ready to be obsessed over!
Looking good!
I took mine all back out of the pots, rinsed the soil off, soaked them again for about an hour in super thrive water and then put them each in a little rooting jar of the water to see how they do. I put them on one of my lighted plant stands, wonder if that is a good thing or not? I had to turn the lights off to take the picture without glare. Do you think the lights will be too hot for them?
Glad to hear things are looking up for everyone!
Doug, you have the perfect set up and I have my fingers crossed your cuttings will perk up as well. To tell the truth, I have had some bad experiences too. Yet, I jump on an order every year and can tell you it is well worth it!
Karen, I bet you peep in that greenhouse 10 times a day! Your's look great!
I am looking forward to mine around Thursday. We are smack in the middle of dogwood winter and the lows are around freezing. My host was kind enough to hold my cuttings a couple days to soak them and let it warm up. There is nothing better than pulling in the driveway and seeing a box of plants on the doorstep.
Mel
Just some assurance to anyone who would think of importing from David Liddle. Experience has nothing to do with it. I had never done it before and my first order came thru just fine!!! it is a matter of having your Import Permits, sending one to David, receiving the order after tracking it and rolling with the punches. Some boxes get opened, some don't...it is a question of luck....
Carol
Lin,
I'm not a water rooter, but many are successful with it. For what it is worth, if I were you I would put a plastic bag over those cuttings to help raise the humidity level at least for a couple of weeks. I would be afraid of them getting dried out under the lights without it. I really want you to be successful with your first attempt at rooting Hoyas. If you do lose any of these, this summer I will be overrun with cuttings that I can send you; so one way or another, you will end up with some plants.
Best of luck,
Doug
Doug: Thanks for that tip ... I thought I maybe should encase them in a zip lok bag as someone else stated they did it that way and I have done seeds and gesneriad cuttings that way in the past. I am sure hoping these root for me ... That is so kind of you to offer cuttings if mine don't make it. I will keep everyone posted as to how they fare. I am learning a lot from all of you here on this forum and truly appreciate all the help!
More and More I can coming to the conclusion that those of us who live in humid environments ....or during humid times...don't benefit from Baggies or rooting in water....those in dry conditions do. My 2cents.
The climate where I live is very humid too but I root lots of house plants in jars/vases of water. My kitchen windowsill always has 4 or 5 jars with little plants rooting and I have a shelf in the kitchen with a few rooting jars too. Some stuff just stays growing in the water, never getting potted up. I have dracaena/"Good Luck Bamboo" and Pothos/"Devils Ivy" that have been growing in water for a few years. Seems like I am always clipping a stem of some house plant or other and sticking it in water. Now, I have had problems at times when transferring from water to soil ... sometimes those thin watery roots just don't want to adapt to soil. Maybe it depends on the type of plant.
So, now I'm wondering if maybe I should take my cuttings back out of the water. I do have a 10 gal aquarium/terrarium that has become more of an incubator for rooting and small plants. I have a piece of an unknown hoya in there that I just checked and it has roots! I can't remember when I stuck it in there but it was in the past month if I remember correctly and I am so surprised it had rooted! I might just have to take all the plants out of there and use that as just a hoya nursery terrarium! I have little African Violets and Episcia's rooting in there but can always transfer them to pots or glass vase terrariums of their own. Guess I better get busy and decide what I want to do instead of being so wishy- washy and changing back and forth, huh? ^_^
Lol Lin. All this talk of people using aquariums as incubators makes me want to bring one in for that very purpose. I might do that this weekend for my new hoyas too. Mine are just in water right now like yours but they don't seem to be rehydrating as fast as I'd like.