These cats are eating the leaves & blossoms off my lemon tree. I don't want to kill them if they will become something wonderful, but I would really like some lemons this year! Can someone ID these, & give advice - do they eat anything else, etc? Thanks in advance! Samantha
DO NOT KILL!! Those are Giant Swallowtail Caterpillars!!! http://davesgarden.com/guides/bf/go/639/
I'm raising four eggs myself and I have another one in a chrysalis about to come out. They'll eat anything in the citrus family. If you want to know how to raise them just ask and everyone on the forum will start giving advice.
Melanie
Thanks, Mellie! I guess if I see another blossom come out, I'll net it to keep it safe! LOL Am glad I asked! though I'll just let them be, and watch to see when they make chrysalises! Thanks again, Samantha
I agree with Mellie. Do not kill them!!!
Am not sure what other swallowtails you get in Georgia but here in south Texas we get a variety of butterflies that very closely resemble the Giant Swallowtail...and the caterpillars and chrysalids look alike. Hard to tell until they eclose and you get to see the butterfly :o) But will say that 99 times of out 100 they will be Giant Swallowtail (papilio cresphontes) caterpillars as they are the most common and pretty much live throughout the US.
Uhm...I just looked up Georgia on the BAMONA site...you don't get the Ornythion, Broad-Banded, Baird's, Schaus's or Bahamian Swallowtails so that leaves the good ol' Orange Dog aka Giant Swallowtail :o)
They are quite legathic caterpillars. A few leaves won't harm your citrus tree at all. They rarely eat the blossoms but if you see one on a flower you can gently move it to a leaf or put it in a cat cage and feed it fresh leaves.
They will eat most anything from the rutacea family - but if they are eating from a specific tree then continue to feed them that tree. Some caterpillars don't like switching larval host plants. They might even refuse to eat and will die if you try swapping leaves on them.
Giant Swallowtails eat a variety of citrus leaves - orange, tangerine, grapefruit, lemon, lime etc. as well as the following.
Barretta - Helietta parvifolia
Colima (Prickly Lime Ash) - Zanthoxylum fagara
Hoptree - Ptelea trifoliata
Prickly Ash - Zanthozylum americanum
Rue - Ruta graveolens
Torchwood - Amyris
Hope you decide to raise them. They are truly a garden favorite!!!
~ Cat
This message was edited Apr 15, 2008 9:32 AM
I just released my first Giant ST ever today and wanted to share with you.
And here's what they look like on the top. Hope your little guy turns into a big beautiful butterfly soon!
Mellie - He's fabulous! I actually counted 8 cats on a little lemon tree - that's why I was concerned - It barely recovered from scale last year, & the 3 blossoms I saw before my trip are gone! :( But, the cats look healthy - all different sizes. I bought a Meyer Lemon today, & will put it next to the other until I can get it planted in the ground - the little lemon is in a pot. Maybe some of the cats will wander over, or, i might "help" them - just to give my little (pink) lemon a break! Thanks for the gorgeous pics - I'll keep you all posted on their progress! Samantha
Oh,, you are so lucky Samantha. I hope one finds my Meyers lemon. It has lots of healthy leaves and already some tiny lemons. It came from Florida. I also have a noid citrus tree that came up from seeds I threw in a pot of mulch. It hasn't bloomed yet. Will have to check leaves closely tomorrow. After doing some more potting up for the round-up.
Melanie can give you good tips on butterflies. She is the maestro. LOL
Elaine
UPDATE: Well, I did try to transfer one of the cats to the Meyer lemon, but now cannot find him! :( Glad I only tried one! One very tiny cat looks like it died & shriveled up, and another seems to be missing, but the remaining 5 look great - big & healthy looking - they are active this morning - moving around - is that a sign of anything about to happen? I've never seen them move at all before this! Thanks for all the help - I'll keep you posted! Samantha
The one might just be hiding. It amazes me how I can't find my cats sometimes even in the cage. They like to roll around in the leaves a lot. The fact that they're moving probably just means they're warm and hungry. When they sit still for a long time it usually means they're getting ready to molt. I learned the hard way that you shouldn't move them when they're like that. Remember, only about 1 or 2% of eggs ever make it to being a butterfly so odds are always against you. I recently acquired four Giant ST eggs. Two hatched, one was a dud, and the other one looked like it started to hatch but never made it out. I opened up the egg with my fingernail last night and there was a tiny little cat inside but he was already dead. Glad to hear yours are doing pretty well!
Melanie
Sam,, get that camera ready to take pictures when they hatch. So nice to put a face to a name.. and good to meet you and your DH too,
hugs,
Elaine
HI, Elaine! What a joy it was to meet you yesterday! And, glad that you (apparently) made it home safely! Actually, the ones that are hatched are mellie's - mine are big cats, getting ready (?) to make chrysalises. I hope! But, I will keep everyone posted. Hugs back at you! Sam
Update! My cats that have survived (2), are HUGE!
The other, bigger one! How long before they begin to make their chrysalises?
Samantha,
I'm not sure what your rules are outside of FL but here, as of Jan1, 08, all citrus must be treated with a chemical to kill Citrus Greening Disease. It will kill your cats too. Citrus Greening is a very serious threat to our citrus industry. Unlike Canker, which only makes the citrus unattractive, Citrus Greening makes the fruit inedible and kills the tree. This is a systemic pesticide and cannot be washed off. It is effective for roughly 3-8 months. Pesticides are why I don't buy any butterfly plants in a big box store. If the plant can't support aphids, it can't support caterpillars.
Maggie
I find that generally when they're so big I think, "How much bigger can they get?" it usually means about a week until they make their sling and then chrysalis. I like in the first pic how you can see just a spot of his red osmeterium coming out.
Melanie
Maggie - Thanks for the heads-up on the pesticides. YIKES - I'll be careful where I buy citrus from! My new meyer lemon, which one of the cats has migrated to, came from Louisiana - my friend works at my favorite nursery, so I sometimes can get info like that, but I can only assume that it (nor my original pink lemon) have those pesticides in them, since the cats are doing so well!
Mellie - Will they make their chrysalis on the same tree they've been eating, or will they go somewhere else? Thanks for all your help! I'm getting inspired, & my DH has been accomodating my small garden-project wishes - he just built me 2 tomato towers for some heirlooms we got at the So. Ga Roundup a couple of weeks ago. So, now, he is designing a "Cat House" so I can grow butterflies w/o them falling victim to the many birds we have in the area!
They should build their chrysalis on the same plant. Some cats are known to wander off to nearby plants (or fences and such) but I think that one generally stays in the vicinity.
Samantha,
Asking about the provenance is a good idea but at least in FL, the plant must bear a tag indicating when it was last treated. Much to my dismay, Murraya paniculata has been identified as a major reason for the spread of this disease as the psyllids love it and sales have been rather casual. MP is an ornamental citrus I bought for a larval food source and fragrance since it blooms intermittently throughout the year:-(.
Maggie
Samantha, when your hubby gets through with your tomato cages, tell him to zip up to Lizella and build me some. Those tomatoes are going to be sooo good. I can taste them now...oh no, those are the ones my mom just brought up from her plants in Florida. yum. Hope my Meyers Lemon doesn't have the poison in it. It is so pretty and full of blooms.
Elaine
This is great and informative-I'm looking forward to your hopefully catching them on film. I'm very new to butterflies...only one i can ID is Monarch, lol. I have to say I got the hibbie jibbies from the pictures...cats can be scarey looking when they're the size of your monitor, ha ha ha.
Good luck to your cats!
Hey - is this the "J" shape I keep hearing about?
The other, larger cat was "pigging out" this morning when I left, but now is nowhere to be found - probably in the belly of some Mockingbird! UGHHHHH! Maybe the other guy will make it! Samantha
Sam, the swallowtail cats don't make the J, they hang in a sling. The only times I've seen cats bent in the middle like that, they didn't make it. I hope it was just a temporary thing for your guy!
Mellie - He unbent, then re-bent. Now he is lying straight out on a leaf. Strange?! I put strips of aluminum foil in the lemon tree to flap in the breeze to (hopefully) keep the birds away. I hope it works! Samantha
Sometimes my swallowtail cats do that, too. I thought it was because they were in the corner of the critter keeper but maybe that's natural. I've just had a couple that never unbent and didn't make it. But if he's straightened out now that's a good sign. Sometimes before they make their sling they contort themselves into some weird shapes.
You may not be able to see since he's outside, but has he done his gut purge yet? Before the cat makes his sling, they take one massive poo (as I call it). This way they get rid of any extra stuff they don't want with them inside the chrysalis. They also stop eating after they purge. Unlike their regular frass, there is a lot more of it and it might be darker or runny. Yeah, it's like caterpillar diarrhea. I find that after they do the gut purge they will wander around (a lot) for about a day. Then, when they find the right place, they build their sling. They'll hang in the sling for about a day and then make the chrysalis. It's weird how they have it all timed out.
Melanie
Mellie - Thanks for "holding my hand" through all of this! I'm really praying this last one makes it to become a butterfly! I've not noticed any BIG frass or diarrhea. When they build their sling, do they attach by their mouth to the leaf (or wherever they make the sling)? I am so new at this! Thanks again for your help! Samantha
No problem Sam! Last year I was new at this, too! When they build their sling, they first lay down a little pad of silk, then scoot themselves up so their tail end rests right on top of it. Then, usually a few minutes later, they start building the sling. They lean back and go back and forth a few times - I always thought it was one strand but they actually weave several strands together for that added strength, lol! Then, they tuck their head under the sing so the ends are silked to whatever surface their on with the sling making a loop around them about a third of the way down. I'm sneaking on at work but when I get home I'll post some pictures. For now, check some of my pics on the Bug Files: http://davesgarden.com/guides/bf/showimage/6068/
Melanie
Here's a view from the top of the chrysalis. You can see the two points where the sling is attached to the side of the cage.
Here's a picture of the chrysalis before it turned dark and the butterfly eclosed. By the way, these are pictures of the Giant ST chrysalis. I showed some of these to the kids on "Bring Your Child to Work Day". They were all, "That's an ugly caterpillar". I explained how he was camouflaged as a bird dropping and they all went "eww". But then I showed them what the butterfly looked like and they all went, "Wow!" Kids are so cute.
Here's one of my Zebra STs. I circled in red the points where he attached to the side. You can see he's attached at the tail end, and there are two spots where the sling is attached. The sling isn't actually attached to the caterpillar, it just hangs around them.
Well, I am sad to report that the last of the GST cats has succumbed, but to what, I do not know. When I returned home from a 2-day trip, I found him (deceased), hanging limply over a branch of "his" Meyer Lemon tree. Makes me wonder if it wasn't dosed with the systemic pesticide after all. I hope NOT - I don't want to be found hanging limply over a branch! Anyway, thank you to all you wonderful butterfly folks who were so eager to help me! My DH is working on a plan to make me a "cat house" so the birds won't get the next batch of cats! I hope he hurries!!!!! Samantha
