I noted that some annuals prefer "poor soil" to be more flouriforus. This is written on the seed packs of Cosmos, Morning Glory, plus a few others. I would like to grow these flowers in a garden w/ other annuals & perennials that prefer "rich soil". The logical solution would be to plant these seeds into pots that would be buried in the flower bed.
What should I put into those pots that need this poor soil mixture? Surely they need some nutrients!
Need a "Poor Soil" recipe
They'd go in the same class with yarrow, Malva Zebrina, alyssum and so many others that really don't require feeding. They can live in good soil, just as easily, but you can dig up some soil in your garden that hasn't been improved in any way and plant them in pots using that soil.
You want me to send you some poor soil? I've got tons of it. :)
A poor soil isn't one devoid of air, because even plants that thrive in poor soils won't grow there. If you dig up soil from your yard or garden, or use bagged top soil, a few waterings from the top will leave it so compacted that root function, and thus the vitality of the entire organism, will suffer commensurately with how oxygen poor the soil is. These soils will also hold far too much water to use in containers.
The 'spare' or 'poor' soil referred to is one that is either low in organic content or microbial activity so that nutrients locked in hydrocarbon chains remain unavailable for plant uptake. To replicate a soil like that in containers, use 2/3 - 3/4 inorganic components of the proper size and fertilize sparingly with a low nitrogen fertilizer like a 2:1:2 or 1:1:1 ratio. My personal choice would be something like a soluble 20-20-20 with micro-nutrients at a much reduced rate with Pro-TeKt 0-0-3 added to up the K and for the added silicon.
Soil:
1 part pine bark fines
1 part Turface (Schultz Soil Conditioner is the same)
1 part crushed granite (or large silica sand 1/16 - 1/8" - pool supply store or masonry supply store)
Al
I'm so glad you asked that, Jax, because every year I remember the nasturtiums my grandmother would manage to get blooming out of literally a crack in a rock on an island in Maine, and then I look at my packages of nasturtium seed (which say very clearly "plant in poor soil" and end up not doing anything. Last year I did winter sow some, just in regular potting soil, which bloomed, but not spectacularly. This year, I thought of mixing in playground sand, but Al's suggestion is much better. xx, Carrie
Thank you, everyone!
Is my plan to sink pots into the ground w/ this mix a sound one? I think I'm going to use cardboard 1/2 gal milk containers (w/ drainage holes & top cut off) for the extra depth. It will also allow me to start them indoors.
I've noticed that the best blooms coming from Cosmos are from the plants growing along the edges of yards, near the road where the soil is gravelly.
Thanks for turning me on to the soil conditioner, Al. Epsoma makes one, too, but w/ nutrients- it's called "Bio-Tone Starter Plus". I don't know what makes it "starter", b/c it seems like essential micro-nutrients for any plant. Have you seen this product? What are your thoughts?
Hi, Jax. That product is very slow release. The suggested rate of 1 lb per cu ft comes out to be about 1 cup per gallon of soil, and I think that's enough to impact the o/a structure if you're using peat or other fine ingredients. It's probably going to be pretty ineffective in containers. The other thing is that it's not a soil conditioner, it's a near organic fertilizer and will depend on the level of biotic (microorganism) activity in the soil for delivery. This means that delivery is almost assured to be erratic/undependable, so I think it's probably best used in the garden & beds. Your call, though.
Espoma's version of a soil conditioner is their "Soil Perfector". It's a little too coarse to be used in containers though. I like Turface or Schultz Soil Conditioner (same stuff) because of the near perfect size mix and it's ultra-high porosity.
Al
I have found that Cosmos grow well in Cactus Mix. I think it is Perlite, Sand, and potting soil.
I haven't read through all the posts here, so I may be repeating someone else's suggestion...sorry if that's the case. I just wanted to share my experience with growing Morning Glories...
Every year my best friend and neighbor would have the most gorgeous MGs. I started having her tell me when she started hers, figuring I wasn't starting mine at the right time. That didn't make any difference.
One year I finally noticed that it said "for poor soil" on the MG seed packet. Hmmm. I looked it up here on DG. Sure enough. Who knew? Here, I had been planting them right along with everything else in the soil I had amended with compost...then I sprayed them with Miracle Gro every two weeks. Sheesh, no wonder I only got 6 blooms in 3 years!!!
I asked my best friend how she did hers. She uses that cheap, cheap "potting soil" you buy at the grocery store! She starts them indoors in a plastic window box, then moves the window box outside and to the spot that she wants them once it's warm enough and no threat of frost. In no time flat you can't see the window box. If I remember correctly, she fertilizes with Miracle Gro, but at 1/2 rate and once a month.
I need to get a pic of her MGs, they are just beautiful. Every year they climb up the lattice work to her high front porch. Everyone in the neighborhood loves them and looks forward to them.
Hoped this helped and wasn't a waste of time for you to read it! :-)
Heather
Yikes! I feel soo bad for disagreeing with your suggestion, Heather . . . but often the cheap potting soils collapse as soon as you apply water to them - right out of the bag. A spare or poor soil is one that has little in the way of nutrients and is usually gritty or sandy, not a soil that collapses and retains too much water. You'll not likely find the former among the ranks of cheap soils, but you WILL find plenty of the latter, and those would be wholly inappropriate for any plant - not just MGs.
Take good care.
Al
Oh, Al, I agree that many of those cheap grocery store soils retain wayyyyy too much water. Basically they can just become a pot of black mud with some perlite floating in them. I did some soil test a few years ago and no matter what I added to that cheap stuff, it still wouldn't drain. It was like soil soup.
I did some studying on what different ingredients are used to make the better potting soils and the cheaper ones. If I remember correctly, the cheaper ones are basically made from sludge pulled out of ponds...reed sedge I think they call it. Ick. I'm wondering if it's kinda like the icky, slimy stuff that used to squish between our toes when we went swimming as kids? LOL!
For small containers, I find that the cheap potting soil can serve as a basis for a recipe. I add perlite, soil conditioner, crushed granite, plus the apropriate fertilizer. I find that the pine bark, no matter how small the chunks, just don't fit into a container for a small plant.
.... then you haven't found the right size chunks, Jax. ;o)
Al
Jax,
I grow a lot of the annuals requiring "poor soil"; Nasturtium is one they talk about that's like that, too, and I believe "poor" also refers to the low amount of nitrogen in the soil. They want you to put it in a "poor soil" so you get more flowers than leaves.
I use a 6-24-24 granular on my gardens, but I'm not sure how you would use a granular fertilizer in a container, maybe wet it down and sort of dissolve it before mixing the containers? Hmmm, maybe I'll try some that way this year and see if it works. Nitrogen (in the form of urea) leaches down in about 30 days from what I understand.
The 6-24-24 is an onion fertilizer. The numbers aren't as important as the ratios.
Suzy
Just a tip FWIW: The average of all plants shows they use about 6 times more N than P, so for container culture, a 6-24-24 fertilizer will supply 24 times the amount of P the plants could possibly use. This unnecessarily raises the level of dissolved solids in the soil solution, which makes it more difficult for plants to absorb water AND the nutrients dissolved in water. Additionally, high P levels cause precipitation of both Fe and Mn, making them unavailable. Since chlorosis is a result of the Fe/Mn deficiency, we usually look at the anemic plant and conclude that we need more fertilizer, which of course, only exacerbates the condition.
Al
Al, we just don't have the pine bark fines that you have. I've asked at every garden center within a 20-mi. radius from my house- nadda! I can get crushed granite in 3 diff. sizes, clam shells, oyster shells, and all manner of other exotic mulches, but no fines! I thought I had them, but these are the "nuggets" that are too big for my little pots. Mold forms on the pine bits that are exposed, too, so I've decided that this year, I'm going to have to use potting soil instead of fines (potting mix, perlite, soil conditioner + crf).
Jax, a few years ago I mixed up my own version of Miracle Gro soil...and those were the soil tests I was talking about...I used the ingredients written on the old Miracle Gro bags as my recipe. MG, at that time, used composted softwood bark...so that's pine bark. What I did was go to Wal-Mart and get a bag of the smallest sized pine bark that they sold. I don't remember now if that was nuggets or what. If you look through the bags you'll find some that are more crushed...bags that no one else wants. Then just bring them home and dump them in a shady spot and water them a bit. Turn them like a compost pile and before too long you'll have pine bark compost...or at least smaller pieces!
Of course, I'm impatient (and must also be a glutton for garden work) so I would sit and chop up those nuggets to itsy, bitsy size pieces and then throw them right into my soil mix.
I've also called around in about a 20 mile radius too and no one here carries anything helpful either. I guess some of us just have to get creative...but that's the fun part, right?
I admit I fell victim to one of those Billy Mays infomercials and bought the gardening auger he was hawking! When I saw that it can turn compost, I said "Ah-hah!" (and he made more $$). I haven't received it yet; when I do, I'm going to try it on the pine park nuggets I have. Since the nuggets are the most expensive of the pine mulches availabe, maybe I can get the larger bags! I tried mowing the nuggets, and hand-hacking, but I just need too much soil. I plant 100's of containers and have them all over my property (2.5 acres).
Tapla had suggested using a chipper to get the pine pieces as small as you want them.
I would LOVE a chipper!!! I drool over that "DR Chipper" that's in all the gardening mags. I don't have a place to store it, though. All my power equipment is in my basement b/c I don't have a shed or garage. It's getting ridiculous! I suppose I could rent one ($tweet tweet$- the sound of more $$ out the window!)
Maybe you know someone with a chipper? We use ours for leaves, twigs, etc. for all the compost bins.
DH wants a chipper too but I compare the cost of storing, owning, purchasing, maintaining and (in no particular order) repairing it when we didn't store it correctly to the cost of renting one for our mere quarter acre, I say "no, let's rent one first."
x, Carrie
How about an e-cheap-o blender?
A blender would be too small. I could use a chipper for all of my branches b/c we can't burn all year; one shot at burning and you have to pile up sticks for next season. And we aren't allowed to burn leaves (and we have no pick up), so a chipper would help me compost my leaf bonanza. It's beginning to look like a necessary investment. Oh, well, I guess I can remove my oil burner to make room in the basement ;0)
I guess I should mention I have a heavily wooded plot in a rural area. I take out about 4-5 trees a year to increase areas for sun-lovers. I have my own chain saws, but sometimes I have help from a service. W/so many trees, it helps to put LOTS of containers around b/c of shallow tree roots.
Yep, I'm a chick w/ chainsaws and a truck!!!
Forget about messin' with a junkyard dog! You just don't mess with Jax!
Let us know how your Billy Mays tools work out. DH and I were just laughing at that commercial last night...and wondering if these augers could pull an 80,000 lb truck or remove any stain?? I think his stuff may be good stuff, it's just how he puts it across that makes you wonder (about him) sometimes, lol. I love OxiClean for cleaning nearly anything.
I love how it shows that auger pulling up stumps!!!! Somehow, I don't think so!!! BUT if it will chop pine mulch and leaves, it will be worth it- it will do in place of a chipper for now. Lots easier to store, I imagine!
Maybe I should move my furniture out of the living room and store my gardening stuff there. I can put the furniture in the garden. Might get wet, but, heck- I never get to sit down!!!
I used to hate Billy Mays, but he is really amazing! I would like to have a voice like that when I needed it, plus the ability to deprive people of their cash.
OK, I've invented a "lean soil" recipe, using ingredients I haven't used b/f, so I'm conducting an experiment.
Yesterday I came across 3/8" crushed brick in bags, being sold as mulch! Cool soil-less mix ingredient I thought, mainly b/c it's 1/2 the cost of Turface/soil conditioner. I bought a 50# bag for $6. Previously, I bought a bale of coir, thinking it would be a good sub. for peat, until I noticed it was more costly. So, I have tons of coir sitting around...
My "lean soil":
1 bag crushed brick
1/4 big bale coir
1 small bag perlite
CRF for flowers: 12-4-8 (a couple of handfuls)
I'm going to use this in pots to grow cosmos, ipomeas, nasturtiums and cleome. I'm going to mix up a big batch that's peat based w/ Turface, too! I can't wait to see what happens. I recall reading a Cornell study that proved coir was highly inferior to peat- but not with all plants. Cornell made the assumption that the beans (or whatever they used) need the same nutrients as every other plant in the universe, which of course is not true!
This mix is also very pretty!
Well, Jax, please keep us posted! xx, Carrie