I have a 19,000 gallon pond, 4 years old. Closed it up last fall, everything was fine. As happens every year, the oak leaves dropped into the pond and we can't net - snow and leaves fall at the same time. I went out a few hours ago because the pond had finally melted. And all 16 fish were dead, floating on the top. The fish load is far below what the pond can support, we don't use any chemicals on the lawn for fear of run off, I use a deicer to keep a hole clear. It's obviously something wrong with the water for all the fish to die, but what?
I'm numb - I've had the 9 large ones for 5 years, they came to greet me every time I came near the pond and would swim with me during the summer. The others were their babies - just beautiful fish. I can't afford to replace them (and they really can't be replaced), so I'll have to start all over again with 6" fish - if we can figure out what happened.
Ideas?
Every single fish is dead and I am in shock
Oh my goodness! ((((HUGS)))) That is so horrible! I completely feel your pain. I am so attached to my fish. It is so hard to lose one, let alone all of them.
Test your water immediately so that you can at least rule out the easy things. Petsmart etc test water for free, just take them a small sample.
I am so sorry.
I called the store where I had gotten some of the butterflies. The owner has seen my pond, and sent one of his guys with a mud vac last year to clean out the yuck on the bottom. He'll be at the garden show tomorrow, and the manager said to bring in a big sample of water. They'll run all the tests they can, but they can't do a chemical screen. The manager is leaning toward run off from a neighbor or a deliberate poisoning. I don't even want to think about that.
Ack! Makes my stomach turn. Let us know what you find out.
I am so sorry. I went out to see if I could see mine today because all of the ice is off, but they must still be deep. I hope you can find the cause although, I know you can't really replace your friends.
Kathy
How horrendous. It can't have been "winter kill" where poisonous gasses build up under the ice because you used a deicer. Were any lights left in the water that could have produced stray voltage? That's a long shot at best but it does sometimes happen. Two winters ago there were several similar unexplained cases in this area. I attended a pond clinic at the local water garden supplier. There were people attending who reported the same thing and there didn't seem to be any explanation. Not knowing is dreadful because you can't take steps to prevent what you don't know. Is there a local industrial testing laboratory that can test for chemical contaminents? I ask because we have two such labs locally and this is a moderately small metropolitan community. I certainly wish you the best in getting to the cause of the problem. It seems you have good people working with you to sort it out.
I don't have any lights in the pond, so the only voltage could have come from the deicer. But I went in barehanded after the fish (it was dusk and I couldn't tell they were dead - I thought they were in distress) and felt no shock. I'm contacting my municipal water department tomorrow to ask about testing. The water in the pond is trucked in from artesian wells, and I change out 8-10,000 gallons every year. But if they can give me the name of the company where they test, it must have the ability to screen for chemicals.
A friend came over this summer and I gave her a handful of peas and had her sit on the feeding rock. They swarmed, sucked on her fingers - and she screeched! I didn't know people had fish fear. They looked at her like she was crazy, and then all swam over to me, even the babies. The babies were getting so big and the fins were just beautiful when I pulled them out tonight. Just beautiful.........
I'm so sorry. I sure hope you can find out exactly what happened. Please let us know. I feel so bad that happened.
Sorry to hear of your loss. It is baffling, so much water. I don't know anything about your pond I'm afraid, 19k gallons....is that lined or a mud pond?
Stray voltage can be at a level lethal to fish but not "shocking" or even a tingle to humans. I have no personal experience with it but there are pond and aquarium articles on the net that discuss this problem. Even knowing that, it's still a long shot at best. One of those things you might rule out just to say you did it. How long was it between the time the bottom was vacuumed and the pond winterized?
My heart is with you. So sorry.
Christi
Thank you all for your support. The pond was vacuumed in the spring (it's 7 feet deep, so it involves snokeling equipment and a wet suit). We shut everything down in late October. The oaks hold their leaves until November, but by then the water is very cold. I can't believe that there was enough decomposition in the leaves to kill all the fish, especially because they had overwintered with no problem before. I'll pull the heater so it can be checked for problems. It is still so hard to believe... The pond froze over again so I can't get out the remaining fish, although I can see their outlines in the ice. Not a pleasant sight. One bright spot, I have a tiny baby koi that I kept with the goldfish so it wouldn't be gobbled. He was inside in the stock pond, so he can be the start of a new school.
I am going to try to borrow a device that is used to sample liquids in a tank. Suppposedly it will let me get samples at various levels in the pond. I've left a message with the municipal water dept. for the name of their testing company. Our concern now is that migrating flocks of song birds stop by for a drink - the yard was full of cedar waxwings yesterday. I have to make sure I'm not poisoning the birds and other wildlife.
dbsmith2 you are a thoughtful, careful and caring person. And you're right. Those oak leaves in the pond had nothing to do with what happened. The water was too cold for decomposition and there probably wasn't enough of them anyway to cause this serious a problem. A neighbor scraped a neglected pond bottom clean in mid spring a few years ago and killed her fish with the disturbed bacteria and gasses. It was quick. Not your situation.
So sorry to hear of the loss of your fish. Can you have one of the fish checked to see if it was a parasite? There systems go dormant and weaken over the winter.
Diane,
I am very sorry to hear of your loss. A friend of mine that has a nursery and several ponds - There was a year that she lost all of her fish. Her thoughts at the time were acid rain. I am wondering if this is a possibility.
Last year, we had a problem with an overabundance of baby koi. I realize that you are 5 hours away from me, but you are more than welcome to whatever offspring we have this year, if you would like.
Carolyn
Thank you for the offer Carolyn - I may be knocking at your door!. I don't know if acid rain (or snow) would be enough to foul that amount of water. That's my same thought regarding runoff - what concentration would be needed in the runoff to pollute 19,000 gallons? Someone at work suggested that I speak with Ward Stone at Environmental Conservation. He's a pathologist for the state.
Here's a picture of the the beggars waiting to be fed:
And a picture of the pond. That building is full of filtration equipment. I turn the entire pond through filters every 1.5 hours to 2 hours. I have a medusa aquabead filter, 2 bio skimmers, 4 pumps, a huge UV light, charcoal in the waterfall box, 2 waterfalls, and 4 bottom drains. When the pond was shut down it was in perfect condition. Whatever happened, it was after November... And it has a rubber liner, so there is no seepage.
Please accept my condolences.
Your property is very beautiful and it is clear you have a significant investment (financial and emotional) in the pond and your fish. I hope you learn the reason(s) behind this catastrophe quickly so that you can once again --with some sense of confidence and an eased mind --enjoy your pond (and your pond buddies) for many many years to come.
Please let us know what happened. It may help save someone else's babies one day.
Gosh, this is horrible. I experienced the shock of losing my fish but they were OK just in shock themselves from an unexpected water change from my well. They all adjusted and survived but they didn't look it when I first saw them.
You place looks really, really beautiful. How did you design the pond and the filtering systems? Did you come up with it or was it professionally done? I'm impressed with the clarity of the water in such a large pond.
I just the other day had a conversation with some friends telling them that my fish will way outlive all of us. They were surprised that fish had such a long life. I'm always surprised that they can live so long under ice and snow but it must be a stressful time for them when anything which goes only slightly wrong can kill them off.
Again, I'm sorry for your loss but tomorrow is another day. Fish grow fast.
Fred
I saw the person I bought the Japanese butterflies from - he can't explain what happened. Too large a pond with too few fish to have a problem. He has given me the name of a local lab that can do pesticide testing. In his opinion, it has to be chemical contamination. I also spoke with the person who built the pond - he thinks pesticide drift from one of the neighbors. I'm calling the service both neighbors use and ask what they applied in the fall. The company owner knows I have a pond because I spoke to him about spraying trees on the property line.
Fred - the whole yard was landscaped around the ponds. I have an 1800 gallon in front for my topview ranchu and orandas. And then the 19,000 gallon for the koi. I designed the filtration system with the help of Brett from MacArthur Watergardens. The water was clear this year - I finally got the hang of it. In this picture, you can make out the outline of the steps - they are 4 feet deep. You can see to the bottom of the 8 foot section when you are upstairs in the house.
My that is beautiful - like a northern paradise. :-)
Fred
PS below is a shot of my brook which flows from the bio tanks in the rear toward the pond. It is spring time here.
The brook is in the rocks?
Oh yes, everything has to be elevated lest a flood comes and washes my fish away. :-)
No, seriously it wouldn't work at ground level as we do get an awful lot of water in the summer time. Could be many inches at a shot. The pond has an overflow which struggles to dispense all the water outside the pond. It too has walls around it. Besides, it keeps contaminates/stuff away from the pond. First a shot of the inside of the brook walls.
and the source of the water from the two 150 gal bio tanks
as seen from the right side of the gazebo
where the brook ends and where I have a nursery for young lilies and lotus plants. To the rear is my well and filtering system.
and the 49th cousins of your departed koi. They too are sorry about your loss.
the brook from the rear. It goes from the left edge of the picture to where the walkway is.
The queen palms are all from seed.
Love it. My husband reminded the landscaper today that he had wanted a stream running into the pond. He said to buy more land. The winter is very hard here - pulling all the tropical plants and getting winterizing the pond when the water temp is in the 50's is not my idea of a good time. Of course, the goldfish decide to hide, so I am usually out in a bathing suit chasing them around the small pond, wondering at what point the numbness in my legs is a sign of hypothermia.
Truly, your place is beautiful. I love the idea of a plant filled biofilter, but it would not be practical here.
Hi dbsmith,
So sorry to hear of your loss. I can relate with losing fish. For a few years I would use the pond deicer in my pond and ended up losing fish as well. The severity of the weather really played a part with the deicer. I started using a small fountain that is put in a basket. The basket is weighted down with rock. I have not lost any fish in the last few years. I was told that even though the fish have a hole for gasses to escape they need aeration. The fountain was the trick for me. My fish are pretty big and I have not added fish in years. I have found the small fountain/ aerator really works for me.
You put the fountain in the bottom? Doesn't that stop the water from layering? I thought that you wanted the bottom layer undisturbed so it stayed warmer. I was going to add one of those air pumps with piping across the bottom, but was told that would lead to fish loss in the winter because the cold water would circulate down. I'm confused. My pond is over 7 feet deep where the koi collect to winter over.
My pond is only 2400 gallons. I have a shallow end of 2.5 feet and it graduates into 4 feet deep. The fountain is placed in the shallow end . You can see the water shooting up. My koi stay in the deeper end all winter. With the size of water content that you have you would probably have to invest in a big fountain. The foutain I have I bought at lowes dept. store. I took the fountain and put it in a water plant basket that have the small holes.. Then I put rocks in the basket for weight. The fountain tube can extend upwards giving more height. The fish hibernate at the deepest part of the pond (4 ft.) among leaf debris. The debris has not seemed to hurt them or the coldness of the water. Here where I live it can get cold fast and you cannot get all the debris out in the fall so the leaves stay in till early spring when the snow has melted and I can start netting it all out. My fountain is still running and has been since November and will run until I put the main pump back in in about a month, end of April.
Hope this helps
Diane I just found this thread and am sooo sorry for your lost!!!! Have you figured anything out yet? I tend to lean toward some kind of run off causing the problem but with it not being a new pond that's hard to believe also. Is there anyway to biopsy the remains of one fish in addition to testing the water?
Jeri
I am so sorry for your loss (((((HUGS)))))
Your pond is just beautiful
Amos
Wow, I am so sad to hear of your loss. I hope you figure out what happened to your beautiful fish.
Eve
I wish mum hadnt killed all our fish, I'd share with you. (((hugs)))
She was as upset as you, they were as long as our arms. :-(
I'm very sorry for your loss too. That's so sad and I hope you figure out what happened. Let me just tell you that your pond and yard are incredible. You must be so proud of it ... it's absolutely gorgeous!
My condolences as well, that is so sad. I do hope you discover the cause.
Brenda
Oak pollen is toxic to fish....so even if the leaves didn't yet have time to start decomposing, are the trees possibly blooming around your pond? I am having a similar issue this year with pollen poisoning, and have lost several fish that were between 16-26 inches. Very sad. Although the filters clean it up, if you don't continue to clean it out of the filters, it just makes a tea and puts in back in the pond.
I think your pond is too large for potassium permaganate to eliminate organic debri.
I'd love to hear what you find out....