We have a very steeply sloped property with three big fields that I used
to pay my neighbor to mow. She's decided she's not up to that any longer.
I'm toying with the idea of getting a couple of goats to keep the multiflora
roses and other stuff that grows around here when you don't mow.
I saw on another thread someone used a concrete block to tether them to
a particular area before moving them. Would this work? We have a barn
so could put them up for the night and let them graze during the day. I
would imagine we'd need to put out some water for them during the day.
Would this work? I know they are notorious escape artists so I don't think
trying to fence them in would be a good idea - expensive and maybe futile?
Tam
Toying with the idea of getting goats... any advice?
i would htink if you train them to stake out when they are yound, you could use a tether and ring like people use for dogs. are there any predators/town dogs in the area, where it would be a bad idea for the goats to be tied down?
i hope there are lots of things to eat besides grass. they just don't lik/can't survive on grass. maybe put them out with a cow, a llama, a guard dog... ass, ox, something that would chase away predators... then you could tether them and not be concerned.
or you could get pygmys and make a goat-tractor?
I didn't realize they wouldn't be safe. I hadn't thought about that. We don't have
anything larger than a cat right now. Chickens and cats. Dogs would attack a goat?
I haven't seen any dogs roaming but I suppose that doesn't mean that there
aren't any.
Being staked out in full sun for long periods of time would be cruel.
I wouldn't stake anything out unless I was outside and could keep an eye on them.
They could get dangled and hurt themselves.
They would need a bucket of fresh water at all times too.
Yes dogs and coyotes will attack and can kill goats.
Have you considered they will need predator proof shelter, a stout pen and feed (hay and grain)year round ?
Also goats are indiscriminate browsers and will girdle trees and eat decorative shrubs and flowers as well.
Some goats can be noisy and the swiss breeds like Alpines can be aggressive.
if you just want to throw some goats into a pasture, get your hands on a large flock of Keiko meat goats. there are sturdy, hardy, have good feet, and those Males have huge horns, they could likely take care of predators. as long as they have shleter, water, and plenty to eat, maybe you wouldnt' need as sturdy a fence?
Why wouldn't she need a pen for them?
Let them run loose all the time?
Also Tammy be forewarned that buck goats STINK big time and during the breeding season they spray urine all over them selves.
I just like people to be fully aware of what they are getting into before they commit to buying any animal. I hate to see them dropped off at auctions when things don'tt go right.
This message was edited Mar 17, 2008 9:46 AM
my advice (I have Betty, Barney and Fred - the boys are wethers) is:
FENCE, FENCE, FENCE....
I do enjoy my goats but they can be destructive, are always hungry, need care at least once a day and must have predator proof shelter...
Catherine
I agree...goats would wreak havoc if allowed to roam free and munch they would on everything you didn't want them to.
I've had farm critters for 30 years and no matter what they are...they all go where you don't want them to and without proper fencing will drive you (and your neighbors) crazy. Goats need stout fencing because they love to rub their sides on fencing and can break them down fast unless they are sturdy.
Chicken wire or welded wire fencing would not be suitable. Goats need woven wire fencing with 4x4 corner posts and T-posts inbetween.
A hot wire on top to stop predators.
Premier Suppliers have electric small livestock fencing.
Don't get me wrong...I love goats and raised them for many years but they do have certain requirements as do all farm animals.
This message was edited Mar 17, 2008 12:22 PM
I was the one who attaches a 40 foot cable lead to concrete blocks during the day and puts them up at night. They are not in full sun as I live in the woods and they have shade whenever they desire. They always have water in their bucket and they do a great job of keeping all briar's and unwanted trees trimmed. I just don't put them in places where they can get tangled. I have had the same pair for 5 years and they are fat and sassy goats. I move their blocks about every 2-3 days all summer. In the winter they stay in their pen with their barn in there and I only take them with me on walks.(mine are pygmies and very tame. I raised them from unwanted pets when they were babies) If your pasture has been mowed every year. You shouldn't have a problem with them getting tangled. Mine are browsers, but also eat grass.(also gardens if they escape, which they will. Its a goat fact. They are escape artist) There are companies that lease their goats out to clean up over grown areas. I think the biggest problem with people getting goats are they go and get too many. The male does have an odor. Not only in the rut,(which a goat is always in rut. They will breed all season. There is no "heat" phase for goats.) Mine are in a pen away from my house, so the odor is not a big deal. All animals have some type of odor. My little doxie hiking his leg on every bush/plant he sees is more of a odor problem then my goat. Another problem I have is babies. If you get a male and female you will have to decide how you will handle this. You can castrate males and solve that problem. I am very picky who gets my babies and most time I give them to people who I know will care for them properly. That said. I love having my goats. They are as tame as a dog and act like them also. I will always have mine until they die. They clean up my unwanted wild areas and cost little to keep. Some good hay in winter and grain. In summer I feed only grain, since they browse on their leads. My vet always tells me my goats are too fat. I do worm them and provide mineral salt blocks. Make sure the salt block has trace minerals in them. They need zinc for proper hoof health. I also don't have a rocky environment to allow their hooves to naturally trim themselves, so I also have to trim hooves. The hoof is thin and easy to trim. I use plant snips and do it at beginning of winter and beginning of spring. I hope this helps with your decision. One more thing. Add fresh cut pine greens in winter. Pine only! They also need vitamin C which the pine contains in the winter month. In the summer they get it from browsing. Add the pine greens to their diet in the winter about once a month.
George
Here is my little nanny Izzy last fall. She is due to kid any day now.
George, what a cutie!
C_Rose, i din't mean no fence, just thought they would pasture well.
Honestly we have our hands full with just two Nubians.
Fences are very good, welded wire works for my goats,
but we string one strand of barbed wire along the bottom.
This is installed about 24" high, about the height of the
goat's sides, this way they don't rub on them and warp and
bend the wire. Our welded wire stays up and tight.
Sending love to Miss Tammy, Hoping Princess Kathy has
a green garden.
Now ya gotta be careful about sending love to Miss Tammy 'cause there are
two of us on this thread now. LOL
Thanks for all the advice. It sounds like we do need fencing. We have the barn
so its not an issue with shelter. Lots to thing about... great information here.
thank you so much!
Tam
TF
I love your Nubian's! I love those floppy ears. Do you milk them? My SO was raised on goat milk and loves it. I just can't take on anymore critters right now.
George
OK Tam. I'll send love to Miss Beckie, instead, and hail to
Princess Kathy. Wait- I don't think she wants any hail! LOL
Which goats are the ones with no ears?
Hope your chicks are doing well, George.
LaManchas. i want one.
Our Nubian girls are only nine months old. So no milking yet. But a freind has a pack saddle for sale. I think it would be neat to go hiking and take them with us a few times this summer. Well, either neat or a fiasco!
They should be bred this winter and then we can have milk next year. We have raised them from a bottle at a couple of weeksold. So by the time we get any milk, it will be expensive LOL. Would have been cheaper to buy a LaMancha! But the boys wanted their own baby goats. When they were young, they would free range, i.e. just followed the boys all over the property last summer. Now you let them out they head straight for the chicken coop! Gotta get a small door for that.
Plan to show them in the fair again this year. Goat people are a blast!
tf
Hey truest!
Chicks are doing fine. I just came from PO with the 30 replacement chicks from McMurray that we lost the first time. These are so much more active and healthy looking. I think we ordered to soon on the first batch.
George
Was that slightly more than 30% ? I ended up losing
7 of the 20, and those numbers sound close to your's.
I also ordered early. I lost 3 of the 8 polish, 2 ameraucana
and 2 cochin. The polish were by far the wimpiest. But, all
remaining are doing very well. I got $ credit from McMurray,
and I can use it for any product from them.
I love miss robbi, and may princess kathy have tulips.
the better to kiss with. teehee
I am sorry-I don't want to crash a thread-but that was tooo funny!!
I Love Miss Joni
Princess Kathy,
May brooks and trees and singing hills
Join in the chorus too,
And every gentle wind that blows
Send happiness to you.
Hey Truest
We lost all the black top hats and a good portion of the polish. I am not to pleased with McMurray. They did replace the ones we lost and added 10. We lost 20 in 48 hours and its a good thing they added the extra 10, because I have about 10 right now in my "ICU". I think the ones in "ICU" have congenital/genetic problems. I have rigged up little splints and I am using golf towels instead of just shavings for the bottom and it seems to help them grip better. I am still having to give them extra care due to their inability to compete with the others for food and water. I prob should let nature take its course with these, but I'm an ole nurse and just can't bring myself to give up on them just yet!
George
Sorry to hear that, George. I don't think I would want
to try that again with McMurray. I attribute my bird's
problems to genetics, and am a nurse at heart, so I was
giving them all I could. It was detracting from my usual
verve and enthusiasm, as I wasn't very successful. I'm used
to getting results from my TLC. I think I will be trying to
hatch my own from smaller breeders. I know you went in
very large with friends. I found what appears to be a good
hatchery in state, in Cameron Tx, that I may try next time, if
I order a large number. Ideal-Poultry.com. At least they are
closer to me.
I love cordeledawg. I wish healthy chicks for princess kathy.
I love miss traci, too. ;-)
This message was edited Mar 18, 2008 11:15 AM
a good small breeder/hatchery near Ideal is xtremegamebirds.com they are in Elgin.
i am sorry to hear of so many losses. keep in mind, when you incubate, you also get losses, just while they are developing.
I am never going to mail order again. I just wanted about 10 hens for eggs and maybe some dumplings : ) I just have labor invested in this deal. IF I want more chickens I will use my own incubator or the old fashion ones. A good ole hen! I hate it, but here in Ky. Chicken fighting is a big thing. I used to be able to get free game hens, because they just "kill em and throw them over the bank" They make the best mothers.
George
I think I breezed over them a while back doing some
quail research. I will have to check them out again.
I know there are losses with the incubation, it's something
I find easier to deal with than spending the larger bucks
at a hatchery, have them arrive alive, then go downhill from
there. I think George would agree the problems are some
that should be addressed by the hatchery practices.
Blanca's chicks are truly mutts, but they are so much more
vigorous. Anyone who takes the time, can ensure a better
diversity in individual breeds' genetics. I am no expert
breeder by a long shot, but am already looking for better
handling techniques well in advance of ever getting to that
point.
I love Joycet. I love Miss Robbi, too.
May Princess Kathy create an easier game.
Ugh, I hate to hear that George. Game fighting is big
in parts here, too. There is one breeder who lives smack
in the middle of our small town, and his yard is full
of about 30 little dog igloos (tiny things) with a roo in each.
What an awful life they have.
I love Crash. I love Miss Robbi, even though she gets
all my points. Thanks to Princess Kathy for finding more
edits for me.
This is good info too! We just got Murray McMurray chicks and are having problems.
We ordered 32 and they added 3 free. Of the 35, we've lost 9 and 2 more look
pretty bad. Eight died in 48hrs and the 9th the next day. We were feeling
awful thinking we weren't taking care of them properly, though I think the setup
is about as good as we could do. Got a huge box with a few inches of pine
shavings, two water bottles & two chick crumbles/feeders. Two heat lamps - its
somewhere around 90degF there now. I won't order again from these guys.
I think they ship too early.
Tam
And yet, when I got mine last year from McMurray, they were the healthiest chicks I have gotten. All of the hens and the two roosters from that flock are doing extremely well health wise.
We got ours the first week in April and only lost 1 which looked sick when they came. I don't know what's happened to Mcmurray this year, but hearing bad news about chicks is unsettling.
I think it was a cold spring. If I were ever to order again, I'd order for delivery in April.
Tam
We all have to remember that these chicks have to come through the mail in unheated trucks. If the weather is especially cold, or they are not taken into the post office right away and put where there is heat, it is entirely possible to lose all of them. We were lucky that we are a very small town (300 people) and the postmistress had a warm spot to keep them when they were delivered. But last year it was warmer than it has been this year. And, as I noted, we got them the 11th of April. (not the first week as I stated...sorry).
They told us when we called that the chicks also go in the cargo
section of the plane, which is very cold!
My 7 chicks from Meyers came across country from OH to CA during really harsh eastern weather (Feb 20th) and they were in marvelous condition even though the PO left them on the dock. I am still a little surprised that the special small order with a little chemical heat pad worked so well. Every time I hear about Scott and truest's experiences I wonder if my luck will hold. I think if you order enough times you are destined to have some bad experiences--the question is, "What is bad luck ?" and "What is bad hatchery practice?":-(
McMurray did not include a heat pack. Those poor chicks were in extreme
cold w/o heat for 2 days. It was cold in Iowa and it was cold here in PA.
I feel it is entirely too early for chicks in this part of the country right now. The first time I order chicks through the mail, (I ordered through the local mill), they didn't arrive till May 5th. I would guess the earliest to get them is about 2 months before your last frost date. At least that is the formula I followed last year and it worked out very good.
I was so dissapointed 5 weeks ago when mpc told me it would be the end of March before my chicks would be ready. I did get my confirmation email the other day saying they will be shipped April 7 and should be here the 9th..
After reading for weeks about all the poor dying chicks.. while I am not real up on the subject.. I think I have to agree with granny.. maybe the PO is just a little to slow for the cold in wearly feb & mar... I know they have been doing it for years, but it sure seems like a lot of complaining going on this year..
So as a new person to the chicken world.. this is what I have learned about chicks so far.
1, I will not order from McMurray, unless something really drastic happens.. right now most of the complaints are aimed at them.
2, I will not have chicks delivered prior to April 1st.. I can always order whenever I want... but no delivery until then!
3, I will be patient... he does look after fools, doesn't he?
I was doing my chick project with friends. They work all the time and needed me to do the labor part. I would have never ordered so early. I won't even let a hen set until the first day of spring. McMurray told them that if they didn't order early breeds may not be available later in the year. These chicks arrived looking OK. The genetic problems started after the first die off. All the top hats died within 3 days. The other breeds had a weak one or 2 , but not like the top hat's. McMurray said they had changed to some new breeders and maybe thats the problem. They did replace the lost chicks, but I still have a few that are having seizures, leg problems as well as balance issues. Give me an old fashion "mutt' chicken any day. They are the strongest and have the larger gene pool. I think the pure breeds are to over bred.
George
i sure wish all these opnions and info were in a chicken thread. someone might need to read it someday...
sorry everyone for your losses. my only hatchery orders have been from one breeder in south texas. i have not had any genetic problems or losses. i have, this year, bought some from feed stores, which have come from two hatcheries. privett sent sexlink roos and called them straight run Black Australorps! Welp bantams seem to be doing fine, we have seventeen from the same shipment. They came from Ohio and were hatched in FEBRUARY! Only two seem to be behind in their growth, and it could just be the breed.
i REALLY want to do a hatchery order later this year. i think i will stick to the hatcheries that are also the breeders. that way, if there is a problem, it would be in their best interest to listen and handle the porblem, instead of just blaming the breeders...
tf
We did kinda hijacked this thread. Didn't we.
G.
Okay, back on topic--sort of. They use goats here to clear the brush and poison oak off the Berkeley Hills (where they had the catastrophic fires a few years ago). Someone just shows up with a heard of whitish goats and they clear the site in a day. A woman in Sacramento also makes a pretty decent living renting out her goats to clear vacant city lots. But they seem to blow through the brush pretty quickly--would one hillside have enough browse for even a couple of goats? But then, you could get a nice Livestock Guardian Dog, like my Akbash, Azzi, to lie around and protect them while they ate.
yes.. sorry.. I was enjoying the Goat talk...
I have 1 horse and 2 goats on 3 acres. This is not enough
browsing for them. It's fairly cleared. If I had a Great Pyranese,
as many in this area do for herd protection, I imagine the
goats would stray further for better browsing. But, that
doesn't mean you can't have them. I don't have a problem
supplementing their diet with some alfalfa. They also get
daily medicated feed pellets. The medication is for
reducing stress weight loss. I am not a big fan of medicated
anything, but since they aren't meat goats, it's ok. ;o)
Sending lots of love to Bleek. I still love Miss Robbi.
May princess kathy have many acres.
You guys "hijacked" the thread in a direction I sure found useful so no problem
there!
I am going to visit a friend of a friend who has goats to see her set up. They
are angora goats.
I have a total of 10 acres and would want the coats to browse of three fields that
total maybe 5-6 acres. Sounds like I wouldn't want to get a lot of them.
Tam