Propagation question concerning Variegation

This is an av I bought recently. I picked it because it had such giant star shaped blooms. At that time the leaves were solid green.

Now it is sending up new leaves. The new leaves are variegated(like they were supposed to be), but the flowers are tiny.

My question is...if I propagate the solid green leaves off this plant, will the new plants have forever reverted back to solid green, or will they be able to be variegated, too?

In order to keep the variegation, do I have to propagate only those leaves showing good variegation, to start with?...if so, should I prick off and trash the solid green ones?

oops: edited to say this one is 'Pretty Miss Kelly'

Here is a close up showing new growth and new blooms:

This message was edited Mar 15, 2008 3:27 PM

and here is one showing the whole plant with the older leaves being solid, and the newer ones variegated:

OK, I know absolutely NOTHING above AV's as I'm JUST dabbling with them.
BUT, from what I have read, and if this was my plant, this is what I would do.

I would first start by unpotting it and removing the very outermost leaves all the way around (the BIG leaves in your picture).
I would make sure my mix was 1/3 pro mix (or AV mix), 1/3 perlite and 1/3 vermiculite.
I would pot it down into a smaller pot (that pot looks a little big but pictures can be deceiving).
Then.....if I wanted to propagate it from a leaf, I would take a leaf from the farthest row down that shows some variegation but is mostly green.
Your babies should come up variegated.
Taking the less variegated leaf is healthier and will send up stronger babies rather than a highly variegated one. Either way, the variegation trait should show up in babies but you are less apt to lose the babies and your babies should suffer less from lack of chlorophyll from a leaf with more green.

I hope that none of this offended you as I certainly don't know a thing about having an adult size plant but have been doing alot of reading in preparation of babies from newly stuck leaves.

Again, please wait for others to chime in with advice as this is what I would do if it was my plant but may not be what you SHOULD do.

Kim

This message was edited Mar 15, 2008 5:24 PM

I appreciate your help, but I am still a little confused and want to be clear on what you are saying

Ok, I take off the outer leaves but do I take off the outer solids and trash them, or propagate them?

If I propagate the solids, you think the babies will still turn out variegated?
-T

Again T, just my suggestion........

I would trash the outer leaves you remove.
They are tired and old.
I would take a leaf (maybe the leaf under the bloom on the left in the picture) which has some variegation but mostly green.
You want a leaf that is not too old nor too young. Usually this leaf is in the 3rd or 4th row of leaves.

Does that help a little better?

Kim

Yes!, thank you
-Taylor

Good luck to you :)
Your plant will ultimately look a little smaller and a little disheveled, but in a couple weeks it will look MUCH happier :)

Pretty plant by the way :)

Kim

Thank you.

It will just be hard for me to throw ANY plant material in the trash...I may stick the green pieces just for fun.
:0)

If they end up staying green, oh well. I'll just give them to people who dont care as much about nametags, lol...

Some varigieted violets start lighter and the older leaves turn green. Some green with a bit of white on the edges. Each one is different. Some have var. on old leaves too. I have several that have the older leaves that look diff than new leaves.

You should be able to get a variegated violet from any of the leaves on the plant...but like Sallysblooms said, there is much variation in how variegated the leaves stay. This is due to genetic, cultural and temp. changes. And like Kim said, to propagate, you should take a middle leaf which is vigorous...it won't matter how much var. it has because it is genetically variegated. A bit of a balanced fertilizer won't hurt either. As far as repotting the original plant, if it is in the soil you got it in, repot into your own mix and base the pot size on the size of the rootball. I find that with most store bought violets, they need to be potted down, like Kim said, but it is possibile to knock it out of it's pot and find a big healthy rootball filling the pot. If it's like that, pot up. Enjoy

Well, three of you have agreed, but I just find that so interesting...

Most any other plant that I know of, can revert, or lose its variegation, and the recommended procedure is to ONLY propagate those parts showing active variegation.(variegated mint, or porcelain vine are great examples of this)

Good to know that there is an exception to every rule.
-T

Hi, I am new here, and we have a few AVs, but what I would really like to know is how do you start new plants from leaves, what do you plant them, moisture etc? Thanks in advance.

I'm probably not the one to ask, lol...I'm pretty new to av's, myself.

I've been told by others two different ways.

One is to take a leaf(with stems) and put in a baggie with fluffed moist soil mix.

The other is stick the leaf in some potting soil and let it root that way.

I'd suggest a separate post, for information on propagation, if you need more detail. Sorry I'm not much help.
-Taylor

Thanks Taylor, that is what I thought I needed to do, and you are probably right.

One type of variegation is crown varigation, right?

I don't know...I'll have to google that one.
:0)

There is a lot if you Google. Here is one. http://72.41.11.187/varifs.pdf

If you will go to the top of the AV forum, you will find 'stickys' with all the information you could ever want to know about how to propagate avs..........

Sally-
Thank you so much for that link to that pdf file. I am going to print that out.

Based on that article, it looks like I need to remove it from the greenhouse(getting close to 80+ degrees in there), and not remove the green leaves just yet.

I found the stable and unstable variegation points to match what I've previously been told about most other variegated plants. I also found it very interesting about the white parts being inert and unable to produce energy for the plant~thus relying heavily on the green sections

great article!~~Thank you!

Google is GOOD! Don't you just love being able to find things like that? Forums, AV magazine, etc. Google is just one more tool! I LOVE variegated violets the very best! Add ruffles and I am in heaven!!!!

Yes, I love google,
...and I also love variegated ruffly avs, lol...

Heya, seedpicker!

You might find some good tidbits in this DG article on variegated AVs: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/402/.

Yes, propagating from an all-green leaf of a variegated variety should still produce variegated plantlets. But it'll probably take longer to get plantlets from an older leaf.

I'm planning to do a tutorial article on propagating by leaf, but I haven't been in a rush to get that one on the schedule because there are a lot of good links for propagation. I like the culture pages at Rob's Violet Barn.

I always thought that you should choose the variegated leaf that has the most chlorophyll in it..........
gail
Good luck.....

I never know what is going to happen I put the small very variegated leaves down at the same time as the large one. I got lucky that the variegated ones put babies up so fast.
I did use a one ounce container on the small leaves..........they put out babies faster

This is only half of a big leaf and she doesn't have babies yet.............she is in a 3 ounce solo cup

Well, the leaf with the most chlorophyll would be the greenest one, and that might be a variegated one or it might be an entirely green leaf... and even an all green leaf will still have the genetics of the variegated variety. All I know is that a heavily variegated leaf can be tricky to root... I get better survival with greener ones.

gessiegail, are you starting your leaves in plain pearlite?

I use equal parts of perlite and vermiculite...................I have tried everything and this seems to work the best for me.............I only dome them for a couple of weeks until I think the mother leaf is rooted..........then off comes the dome while I wait for babies.............the best part about perlite and vermiculite is that you will find it hard to ever overwater (unless it is sitting in water)

hello all-
Just wanted to say that I have appreciated everyone's input on this subject.
This has been very interesting and educational.
Thank you

Hi Everyone ,


This is my first post as a member and I want to thank Gail for reminding me about Dave's Garden , you are all soooooooooooo nice and you help each other as people should , as I love to when I can , ok this is something I wanted to add to the issue about variegation , it is good to take leaves with as much green as you can so that the mother leaf can support the babies as long as she can , if the babies are all white the mom is the only thing keeping them alive til they get old enough and strong enough to get green themselves , one thing you can do to hurry this up is to mix fish emulsion with water and spray the white leaves , this helps to green them up faster , if mom dies the babies whites do too , the fish emulsion stinks but it really helps the babies green up , open a window and plug your nose hahahaha , it really isn't that bad : )

Thank you all ,
Connie Lynn

Hi Connie-
Welcome to Daves! And welcome to this forum.

Glad you posted :0)

Thank you for your input on this I appreciate it.
-Taylor

You are posting, Connie!! Welcome aboard to our fun and learning.....
gail

Welcome Connie ^_^.
Lynn

Wow--look at that! A year old thread--still very pertinent! And Gail is growing violets again!^_^--Welcome Connie!

welcome Connie, so glad to have you.
mrsbonnie