Planning My First Pond... Any Advice?

Hi everyone! I am very excited to be planning my first pond! I've been doing a lot of reading online and in books and magazines. I am so glad February is almost over...bring on spring!!!

It was a fairly nice day so I went out and layed out the hose to get an idea of the size. We have a huge yard, so space is not an issue. The measurements I came up with were first 10X15 but after laying out the hose, 19X8. I was going to start with a smaller pond but everyone suggests going bigger if you have the room.

What I want in a pond is a place to attract birds, turtles and frogs. I also want plants and a few fish and although I love koi, I think I would be too heart broken if I killed one of those beauties, so probably more likely goldfish. I want to have a small waterfall(most likely placed near the river birch) and a shallow area(probably next to the pine tree where I put their feeders) for birds, as well as lots of plants.

I have a pre-school aged son who will love the pond. I grew up with a natural steam and large pond in my backyard and I want him to have that same joy! I would like to keep the sides shallow and make the deeper area towards the middle, just in case he jumped or fell in. Any suggestions on what that might look like? We also have 3 small dogs and 1 naughty cat... whom I'm sure will be fascinated with the pond project as well as the finished project:)

Any advice that I might benefit from? The area is VERY sunny but I have plenty of room to plant trees and shrubs. Also, how deep for goldfish to survive the winter because I don't want to bring them in during the winter. All advice is appreciated! Thanks,

Eve

Congratulations! We built our pond last year, and love it so! A couple of things that we learned in the process... decide what kind of pump and filtration system you want/need, and check pricing on it. After digging our 16,000 gallon ponds, we learned that the filter and pump would cost $4,000, and the liner was over $1,100. Had we done some shopping around or built our own filtration system, that cost could have been far less. We do like the system we bought, though. Just keep in mind, bigger pond means more cost to build, pump, and filter. Good luck, and post pics!

Brenda

Dax080 - where are you?! One of the best stream's I've ever seen is Dax's. The advice you'll get there will be among the very, very best. You have a blank slate to start with. How absolutely wonderful! I've been ponding for 7 years. The thing that came to my mind first too is that size does matter. You will want one as big as your budget allows. My biggest regret is that I was not ambitious enough in size and a do-over is not in the cards. Bsavag's advice to cost everything out first is right on target. The second thing that came to my mind was what style of filtration do you plan on? Many, many ponders have built their filtration systems from salvaged and alternative materials and they have done very well. It's one way to curb costs. Or you can choose to install one of the ready made systems. There are several that are excellent, more expensive, but efficient and durable. My system is seven years old and has performed flawlessly (Savio). But there are many good ones to choose from. I suggest that first you look at some of the top of the line ready made filtration systems. Get an idea of the cost for the size of the pond you would like to have. Does one system impress you with what maintenance you're willing to commit to? Can you replicate this system on your own with other materials? Once you've decided on your filtration type and the size of the pond it will serve you've made the major decisions. The rest will fall into place. And everybody here will want pictures. Lots.

Thanks for the welcome! I was looking at the atlantic skimmer/bio falls combo. I'm definately on a budget so I might have to make my pond a tiny bit smaller, although if I don't have to purchase everything all at one I could be a little more flexible. I've been pricing pond kits just to get an idea where to start. Would it be wiser to look for things seperately? I've been leaning towards ebay(I think its pond depot) or azponds.

I am heading to the local pond store tomorrow to do some more research. I know their stuff is much more expensive then what I have found on line. I'm sure my husband will be freaking out at prices and wishing he hadn't agreed to digging this pond! LOL

Eve

Hi, when you say "I want the pond to atract birds" and you want to have fish, good luck.
Birds love to eat koi and goldfish.
Can't wait to see how your pond goes!

I would suggest you consider a bottom drain. Despite it's name, it is not used for draining the pond (although it could do that as well), but it is part of a filtration system. It is probably the least expensive thing you'd have to buy, but the impact is huge, in my opinion.

I have looked at a bottom drains, it is on my list. Is it something you need immediately or something you can add later? I'm trying to figure out what I need right away and what I can get as I go. I want my water to be as clear as possible and as much sun as our backyard gets, I'm a bit worried about that. Any good filter recommendations?

As for birds... unfortunately we don't have a lot of large trees in the area so our bird types are minimal. We usually get song sparrows, robins, black birds, and finches. I'm not sure if any of those would eat fish. Occasionally we see a hawk flying by but they are more interested in all the mice and snakes in the surrounding corn fields.

Thanks for the feedback!

Eve

Eve,

You can get a retrofit bottom drain installed after the fact, but I have read that they are not nearly as effective, so I would recommend adding it immediately. I have had a pond without bottom drain, and now a pond with a bottom drain. The difference between the two is dramatic! A 3-inch Tetra bottom drain is about $50 new. You could probably find them on ebay for less. Then you'll need some 3-inch PVC which is relatively inexpensive. They are not hard to install either; I have no plumbing experience, but I installed my own following the directions. I have a DIY filter made out of a 55-gallon barrell ($5 from Coca Cola plant), and several filter pads. I also have a DIY biofilter (skippy style). I have found this setup works very well for me. You can go less complicated or far more complicated and you will find people who have been sucessful at each level. But if clear water is your goal, I'd say you definitely benefit from having the bottom drain, a mechanical filter (barrel) and a biological filter. My pond is always clear, never needs vacuuming and very low maintenance.

Since you're in full sun, you will probably battle algae more than I do because my pond is mostly shade. But if you have a good biological filter, the pond will achieve a balance and control the algae.

Have fun planning - ponds are awesome and you'll be hooked.

Can you expand on the bottom drain idea for me? How does it work and why do I need it? Thanks

A bottom drain is placed at the lowest point of the pond and is plumbed to a mechanical filter. When installed correctly, any debris on the bottom of the pond (fish poop, leaves, etc.) gets sucked down the drain and the solids are trapped in the mechanical filter, keeping your pond floor clean and healthy. The mechanical filter will need to be cleaned periodically. I clean mine once a month and it takes about 45 minutes to clean two filters. That is the only maintenance I do on my pond (apart from spring start-up and winter shut-down). I have an external pump which is the ideal for a system that includes a bottom drain. You can still add a bottom drain with a submersible pump, but most people who go that route plumb it to a skimmer, which works, but is more maintenance as the skimmer would need to be cleaned much more frequently.

One "disadvantage" to a bottom drain is that it is only effective if you do not put rocks on the bottom of your pond. This turns off many people who prefer a rock bottom pond. I was in that category once myself, but after a year of constantly battling water quality, I decided to give it a try. Rock bottom ponds only look nice if the rocks are kept clean, which can be a real challenge. Furthermore, rock bottoms also provide tons of nooks and crannies for mulm buildup (fish poop) which can create a toxic environment for fish. Even vacuuming won't get all the debris out of the nooks and crannies. So I emptied my pond, lugged out all the rocks, tore up the liner and started over. My biggest concern with removing the rocks was that I wanted my pond to look natural and I didn't want to see the liner. So I made all the sides have shelves that I lined with rocks so that the liner above the water wouldn't show. When I look in my pond, all I see are the fish, the reflection of sky and trees, and the plants. I don't notice the bare liner at all.

Many people get by without a bottom drain. In fact, it is very hard to find an article on pond building that actually suggests one, so most people don't even know about them. But for the impact they have, and the relatively low cost to add one, I would never be without one again. If you plan to keep koi, you should absolutely consider one because koi are a little more fussy about water quality than goldfish. But I would add a bottom drain even to a smaller pond that had no fish because I've seen firsthand the difference it makes in keeping the pond clean and clear.

The shed in this picture houses my pump and both mechanical filters. I was fortunate enough that the ground where the shed is drops off about 5 feet just behind the shed. We were able to build the shed over that drop-off and put the two barrels on a cement base underneath the shed. So the tops of the barrels are level with the floor of the shed so I can still use the "main floor" of the shed as storage.

This is a picture of the bottom drain installation (sorry it's a little dark):

Once you dig your pond, find the lowest point. All sides should slope toward that point (no hard angles). Dig a small hole at that lowest point where you will install the drain. The drain should be set in a small cement base so that it doesn't shift. Then dig a trench from that point out to where you plan to store your mechanical filter. This is for the pvc line. The mechanical filter can be a barrel like mine or you could make a settling chamber out of leftover pond liner. I like my barrel because it provides a safe place to land for any fish who decide to take a ride through the bottom drain. Once a day I check my barrels and rescue any tourists. After a while, they seem to learn and by mid-summer I seldom find any.

I could go into a lot more detail about the specific things I've learned along the way (mostly as the result of doing it wrong and learning the hard way). If you think you might go with a bottom drain, I'd be happy to explain in more detail.

Songs, thank you for the explaination and pics. I do not know if it will work with the current situation that I have. My top pond is a large stock tank so of course has no sloping sides. My bottome pond is a flexible liner pond but seems to be doing pretty well as far as water clarity. I have the top and bottom ponds "connected" (they really aren't it just looks that way) by a winding stream with several waterfalls that acts as a biological filter for the bottom pond. However, the drain for the stock tank faces downhill and I will have to give it some further thought ------

Thanks for the info. Do you have to cut the liner to install the drain? Is the cement necessary?

Eve

Yes, if you're pond is already built, it may not be the best option for you. That's when you go with the retrofit if you really want one.

Eve, you do need to cut the liner and the cement is important. Bottom drains are gravity fed so there is some pressure on the pipe. If it's not secured, it could shift which could put a tear in the liner. You do not need much cement at all - just enough to set the drain. A few inches deep and about a foot in diameter. A lot of people are frightened away from bottom drains when they find out they have to cut the liner because they are afraid of leaks. If installed correctly, which really is not hard, there should not be any leaks.

Yeah, the idea of cutting the liner is rather frightening but we will have some skilled guys helping us dig and install the plumbing, I think we can figure it out.

I just ordered my filter and pump. I got a Laguna Pressure Flo 1400 UVC filter with a Calpump PW 1200. AZPonds is having 10% off and has free shipping, pretty good deal.
I was going to get the 700 but thought the larger filter would give me a little more wiggle room. I like that it has the UVC with it and also you can flush it out without opening it up. All that fish poo should be good for my flowers:)

Now I need to locate a liner, bottom drain, and skimmer. Anything else? No turning back now! LOL

Thanks for the info!

Eve

How exciting!!! Now for plants and fish! I have loved everything I've purchased from Texas Water Lilies, however, the co-op for them just ended, which is too bad because they have great water plants and lilies and great prices. They may have another co-op through DG in the next couple of months. As for fish, one of the best bits of advice that I recieved was from one of my favortie DG friends and ponder, who recommended that before adding any expensive koi or other fish, that you go to petsmart or petco, and get some feeder goldfish. Put them in the pond first, to make sure all levels are safe and that they thrive. For us, our worst lesson was in bad information from the pond store, that big pump that we got was unenclosed, and sucked up "waste" from the bottom, through an impellor. They not only never instructed us to enclose it in a cage, after the worst happened, they really couldn't imagine that it could happen. I called the company that manufactured it, and they indicated that yes, that pump could suck up any solid waste, including (sob) fish. Tony then built a cage for it, and it's been fine ever since. But I hope our experience with a pond store that knew nothing about what they were selling ultimately helps prevent that kind of a tragedy. After things were good, we bought 100 unculled 2 - 3 incho koi from "exoticfish" on ebay. (That is their ebay name). They shipped overnight, sent 117, they all arrived in perfect health and survive very well. The very few that we lost several months later were apparently due to a house-sitter mistake.Most of them are now 10 - 12 inches or bigger!!! If you want to see the story of our pond building journey, here is the link: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/705479/

And a pic of it late last summer. The pond and it's surrounding gardens are just starting to come back to life now, so you get last year's pic for now.

A change in plans. The utility guys came out yesterday and marked lines. In our huge backyard, guess where the lines ran straight through? So it looks like I have to relocate the pond, which means I have to move it further out from the house. I'm bummed because the location I picked was right off the deck and could be seen from the kitchen and dinning room window. Now I'm not sure where to put the pond. Hmmm... guess I will I have to get a little more creative.

I built my pond primarily above ground with cement block and capper stones. (then hid the cement block with decking) Any chance you can work around the lines without digging, and maybe go above ground?

Our top pond is above ground too, only the bottom pond had to be dug below the existing ground level. I agree with MerryMary... can you make it (or part of it) above ground?

I thought about that but the winters are pretty cold up here in Nebraska and I think the fish would winter better in the ground.

I am thinking of putting the pond where the flower bed in the picture is now. I would have to make a new bed for my plants but that is pretty easy to do, maybe where I was going to put the pond. The only thing is that area is very clay so digging will be difficult. There is a pretty birch over there and I could build a burm behind the small waterfall along the back of the pond, which would give us more privacy from the neighbors. I would be able to see some of the pond from the dining room in that location and its right off the deck.

Does anyone know how deep they usually bury utility lines? If it was a shallower pond, could you still put it there? I think I told them I was digging 4ft deep but I could make it more like 2-3 ft since I am not planning to have koi.

Depth of utility lines is pretty dicey... I wouldn't take the chance without confirming the depth with the utilities. Even then, you might be "encroaching" on their easement... and if you do dig up a line, it can be very expensive (unfortunately, this is the voice of experience... on a different project, not our pond).

I agree. I highly doubt the town would give you a permit anyway so you're better off finding the next best location...

Can you budget in a backhoe rental for one day? Around here it's about $200 per day. It would cut through your clay in no time. I dug my pond (19x16) by hand, but I have the benefit of sandy soil with almost no rocks. Even so, the toll it took on my body was not insignificant. I was healthy and 33 years old at the time, but my body still hasn't recovered fully almost 2 years later. Just something to think about... the expense is relatively small compared to the potential of long-term, possibly permanent, joint and tendon damage!

Ditto SongsofJoy on "back breaking" digging. We have easily dug rock free sand and still it was a killer. The "hole" holds about 2400 gals. We could not get any mechanical equipment in the back yard soooo................it was tough. Out the side gate in wheelbarrows and onto a trailer the dirt went to be hauled away. We hired every able bodied teen we could find to assist. Took about ten days of after school and weekend digging. The kids were great. We kept them hydrated with soft drinks and stuffed with pizza. We paid by the hour at the end of each digging session. To our surprise and undying gratitude the kids usually brought someone new with them the next time so the "crew" grew. Some of the kids in the generation coming up are really neat people.

Well, I went and looked at the backyard and I think if I just move the pond back a bit past the utility lines, it will work. The soil isn't as clay back there as it is by the house anyway. I can still see it from the windows, just not as closely.

I thought about a backhoe but my husband thinks him and his buddies can do it by hand. I think the pond will be around 14X9X2 so I think they can probably do it. Hiring some neighbor teens does sounds like a good idea.

I will have to have an electrician come out now and run power out there since it is farther away from the house. Anyone know how much that might cost me?

If you are thinking of koi and the "2" part is depth that's a little too shallow for koi in your zone. It won't give them enough vertical swimming room. In hot weather the water will get quite warm at that shallow depth and too cold in the winter. Large mature koi often exceed 24 inches in length. Think about a minimum depth of three feet. Three and 1/2 ft is acceptible and four is excellent. We have a 3 1/2 ft. depth in the main section of the pond. There is also a two foot depth area, 1 ft area and a very shallow six inch area. These "shelves" hold various plants (in pots and tubs) that grow best at different depths. The koi like the exercise of moving up and down through the plants and "shelves".

2 feet might also be too shallow for goldfish in zone 5a. Mine is a little more than 2 1/2 feet deep and my goldfish survive the winter so that might be fine for you too. (I am a half a zone warmer than you - don't know how much difference that makes.)

Again SongsofJoy, your advice is right on. Dig it just as deep as you can go. Keep the BenGay handy. You'll need it. And you will not regret it.

I don't plan on keeping koi. I thought I would try comets and shubunkins. I'm not entirely convinced my cat won't catch them all, she is such a wicked thing. I might have to start with some little feeder fish and see how that goes. My cat might be part bengal because she isn't that afraid of water. She doesn't like swimming but she doesn't mind getting her feet in it and wade plus she loves running water. She even took a flying jump into my son's swimming pool this past summer and punched a whole in it. I will have to put lots of hiding places in there for the poor fish to hide. Luckily the dogs are there to keep her in line if she gets too wild.

I thought 2 feet would be my average depth with a deeper area for overwintering that is 2.5- 3 feet. If the soil isn't too clay we might go deeper, we will have to see.

Thanks for all the input!

Two feet deep should be plenty for goldfish. I think I am in the same zone with that depth and mine have done really well. I have never used a heater on the goldfish pond and they are always raring to go come spring.

Well evista - here's the deal. Now you say you aren't interested in koi. Neither was I when I dug my first pond. It was (and still is) a little goldfish pond. That's all I wanted, I thought. Love and use that little water feature to this day. But the water gardening bug bit me so bad that the very next year I tore out a 20 x 40 established perennial garden, dug a huge hole, lined it with rubber and crammed it with koi and plants. If I could I would put in an even larger one. This stuff is incredibly addictive and it's hard, hard, hard, if not impossible, to go back and enlarge things later. And I have no self discipline either. :) If it swims and has scales, or grows in water, I'm trying to figure out a way to have it. What started as a pleasure, became a passion and still is after seven years. All I can say is watch out.

Well, I'm only beginning year two with our pond, and all I can say is... what Snapple said! I just added a lotus bog (wish me luck growing lotus in AZ)... and we may build a turtle habitat. You will want koi, trust me. They are sooooo pretty... then you'll want frogs, and turtles, and whatever else...

Brenda

A voice from "the other side"... :o)

While I admit koi are very pretty and, on occasion, I have been tempted to get a couple myself - I am very happy with my comets and shubunkins and I'm probably going to stick with them (of course, I'm only 2 years into my pond...who knows what I'll be doing next year!). But I live in a woodsy area and on a small lake, so I know there are predators just waiting for an easy target. And truthfully, (koi owners block your ears) I find it rather amazing to see a great blue heron swoop down and grap a fish from the lake. So I figured instead of battling nature, I would get a few inexpensive fish and see what happens. So far, I have only lost a few and I DO feel sad when one of my fish dies but it might be all that much harder if my fish were more pet-like (which koi are) and more expensive. So I think you're making the right move to start with goldfish and see how it goes. Ponds ARE an addiction, and most likely whatever you do this year, you'll be changing and possibly expanding next year, but that's all part of the fun!!

I can already feel the addiction taking hold! LOL I will try to make a space in my pond at least 4 ft. deep just in case.

One of the reasons I don't want koi at this time is the reason you stated, Songs of Joy. I am too soft to get that attached to a fish! Who knows what will happen in the future, I may give into their allure yet!

My first reason for wanting a watergarden is plants and garden beauty, I'm a gardener first and foremost. The second is wildlife. I like watching wild creatures come and go. I do want to keep fish and frogs because they are fun to watch but nature can be cruel, so if a pretty bird swoops down and takes a fish I will be sad but hopefully not sobing the way I would if a hawk grabbed my chihuahua! Who knows, I love animals so losing a fish could probably make me cry:(

Eve - you sound like a kindred spirit! I wanted a pond first and foremost because they can be beautiful and because it gave me opportunity to expand my passion for gardening to water gardening! I really didn't expect to enjoy my fish as much as I do. Frogs too - they are fun to watch and they add to the beauty of the watergarden. You will get attached to them, especially if you love animals. I can't help myself - every time I go out to my pond, I start counting to make sure they are all there. And it IS sad to lose one - but I can't imagine how much harder it would be to lose a big koi that you're attached to.

Songs... given your location next to a large pond, I have to agree that you've taken the right course. I never thought I would get "attached" to fish, (we have some goldfish, too)... but you do. Especially as you start them as babies and watch them grow, I love them all. It is quite heartbreaking to lose any. I too love the water garden aspect of the pond as well, it is so lovely to be out gardening and hear the waterfall! I have 8 new water lilies and several new marginals arriving (hopefully) today!!! Hoooray! Evesta, can't wait to see your progress!!

Brenda

Brenda,

I'm so envious that you're ponding now. I'm just dreaming about it. My pond is still buried under 2 feet of snow. I don't even know if my fish made it through this winter yet...

I've seen pictures of your pond - it is lovely!

Thanks, Songs... but your waterfall and pond are just absolutely stunning! If it makes you feel any better, I have to get in today and do lots of clean up in fish poop!

I hear you about winter and snow, this time of year drives me crazy! Luckily our "glacier" that was covering the yard melted a couple a weeks ago and no major snow since. Even the grass is starting to green up just a little and I see a few bulbs starting to come up. The robins are back and the geese and cranes are migrating over the Platte River, so spring is on its way.

Enjoy your pond for us too, Brenda! Fish poop and all!

Yes, I'd take fish poop cleanup duty over shoveling snow anyday!! Thanks for the compliments on my pond.

Eve - I find it amazing that you don't still have snow being in zone 5a. Not fair!!! LOL. Here in New England we're just and inch or two short of breaking a record for snowfall. We haven't even had many warm days. Normally by now we have some days in the 60's and then it will snow again. But not this year. Today might hit 50 but then we're back down to the low 40's and 30's. Makes me wanna cry!

We are forecasted to get 6 - 10 tomorrrow. :>( I have lost goldfish and a really nice shubunkin to herons. So far I've been just plain lucky with the koi. This year will require some more preventative measures. My next door neighbor said the heron was a regular visitor at the koi pond when I wasn't home and our dogs were not outside. If I don't do something for certain out there this year I'm asking for trouble. You do lose some fish sometimes and its always a downer. Last spring I lost my biggest oldest koi. It got egg bound. I need to put in more spawning brushes and put them in earlier. You learn.