My hole has been dug since fall. It is about 2-4 ft deep and about 14 by 20 ft (I will remeasure in spring). I am nervous about ordering pond liner over the internet, but I have heard that this is the most economical way to get your liner.
What sites have you ordered liner from and been happy with?
Anything I should be aware of when ordering from a web site?
I am guessing that I should order closer to time of installation, just in case there is something wrong with it?
Any advice would be appreciated. My last one that I removed was with a preformed liner. I wanted the pond larger and also wanted to have the stone into the depth of the water for a more natural look. I am new to flexible liner other than the information I have gathered through reading.
Thank you.
RatherB
Best experience ordering pond liner for large pond...
Here are a few sites that I know of. I haven't ordered anything from them yet, so I can't say as to the customer service.
http://www.justliners.com/index.html
http://www.pondliner.com/
http://www.watergardencreations.com/pondpage.html
http://www.aquaart.com/liners.html
http://www.pondepot.com/index.html
I'm in the process of getting everything started on my pond. I will be roughly 30x40 and 5' deep.
Just remember to measure everything 2 or 3 times! And when you figure out what size liner you need, order just a little more than what the liner calculator says for the overhang. You can always cut some off, but you can't add to it! Also, liner is heavy! Real heavy! Make sure you have some way of getting it off the truck and have several people help. The best way I have found to work with the liner is to install it on the hottest day possible. It makes the liner pliable and much easier to work with.
I hope all of this helps!!
Good luck and have fun!!!
Darin
Boy did Dr. Saul ever hit that one on the head! When we enlarged our pond 2 years ago, I found that the prices on the internet were about 1/2 of what my local garden store sells the pond liner for. Also, there was an extra charge for off loading the liner from the truck and the liner would stay where it was off loaded - it would have been our responsibility to get the liner to where we needed it to be.
My husband is disabled and I have disc problems - it was well worth the extra couple of hundred dollars for us to order liner locally. She did give us a rake off and when the liner was delivered, they brought it into my back yard where we needed it to be. We were then able to get all of our children and friends here on a day of our own convenience to take out the old liner and install the new. We had a number of people to help and it turned into quite the party!
45 mil should be 45 mil regardless, so it is whatever you can handle. Best of luck to you in what ever you choose.
Looking forward to pictures of your installation and the completed pond!
Carollyn
I ordered from pondliner.com and had no problems. It is definitely less expensive on-line. I would also recommend 45-mil, if you haven't already decided on that. It is well-worth the extra money, especially for a pond of that size.
We have a commercial liner supplier in the area, we can call up tell them the size, they have it waiting for us when we get there, very competetive prices, same liner you get from a pond place. They normally supply fisheries or waste/dump sites. We've referred several people, they've all been pleased. You might look for a similar supplier in your local area.
Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the information and feedback. If anyone else reading this has any experience with any particular on-line company, let me know. That is information I did not know...about the weight and needing a truck to deliver it...I won't be able to help, but I think I could round up my son's teenage friends.
Carolyn...
I am from Bentley Creek originally. My parents are still there. I went to East Smithfield, which was also part of the Athens school district, back then. Also, I went to school for nursing at Robert Packer. What a small world!!!
Your photo of your pond is lovely. Is that a waterfall off to the one side of your photo? If so, do you have any photos of your waterfall area? I can't wait to get building mine!
RatherbeDigging!
OMG!!! I graduated from Athens too! - moved to Rochester NY for a decade or so and moved back. Our little town is growing! RPH is down the street from me.
We have 3 waterfalls - I can send pics when I get home. What a small world.
Where is Akron?
Carolyn
Just some added info for you...
I too bought large rolls online. It was 5 years ago so I dont remember from where. 1 roll was 6' wide by 100' long, the other was 6 by 50. Both were for my rivers, the pond is only about 8 by 8 so I bought that piece locally because I didnt need a huge roll of the wide stuff. I remember it was more than 1/2 the price of the local store. I also bought pond liner.
I have helped a few friends build ponds since then and this is what I learned that I would have done if I knew before I ordered mine. Old carpet that people are throwing out is great for the underliner and is free. The liner we used on the last 2 ponds were bought from the local roofing supply company. It is the same mil and is wayyyy cheaper. It does not say that it is fish safe, but it didnt say that it would hurt them so we tried. Fish and frogs and plants are happy 2 years later.
ps. If the option is available, always go bigger. LOL :)
chris
RatherB, I'll be watching to see how your project goes. Looks like your pond will be close in size as the one we are very slowly working on. Not sure if it will become a reality this summer or not. We have thought about using rubber roofing too. I hear different opinions on that. I had also thought of using old carpeting under the liner instead of purchasing a pond pad. We collect carpet we see that is sitting along the road waiting for trash removal. We use it between the rows in the veggie garden. Looks pretty funny but works very well to keep down the weeds between the rows and gives you a nice path to walk on. We have collected huge boulders to use in our pond and I'm a little worried about how we will get them moved and placed without tearing the liner.
Carolyn, I agree your pond is lovely.
RBD,
Here is a picture of the waterfalls on the right. We recently added the pots on the sides and some vinca to help soften some of the edges. After this picture was taken, we removed the iris you see growing in the pot, and planted it in the bog. Then a different center stone was put into the center of the falls giving us a 'split falls'.
There are some euyonomous (sp?) planted behind this falls. When they have grown, they should add more foliage around the falls.
I will add the others too so you can see them.
Carolyn
RDB,
On the other side of the pond is a berm that houses 2 waterfalls. This is the one on the right side of the berm. There is a small light that you can barely make out in the center part of this waterfall. It is on a sensor and comes on when it is about dusk it comes on and stays on until Dawn. I like to look out from the porch upstairs at night and see the light on and the water going over it.
Since this picture was taken, we have gotten rid of the biotech's (the black filter you can see on the right) and we are now using a skippy filter type of set up.
I'll post a picture of the 3rd waterfall.
Carolyn
RDB,
Here is the 3rd waterfall - you can see part of the waterfall with the light in it too. We planted lots of vinca with the idea of the vinca softening the rocks. The vinca took nicely last year, so I am really hopeful that it is going to go like crazy this year.
As I mentioned before, we got rid of the biotechs and went with a couple of skippy type filters. There is a purple smoke tree planted behind the berm, so when the grasses, euyonomous and smoke tree grow, it should look more natural.
Carolyn
Thanks for the information...it is so great to learn through the experience of others.
Chris and Holly, I have heard about the carpet for the underlayment...I didn't know anyone that did it. I would say, why not...Anything to give it padding to protect the liner.
Holly, You have a lot of projects, girl! I want to see your photos, too.
Carolyn, I will dmail you back tomorrow. I am on late and off to bed soon. I love the photos of your pond. Maybe on a trip up I could see it in person? I live in Lancaster County. I can see you have put in quite a lot of work on your ponds. I hated to pull up the old one, as all the vegetation was all filled in and now I will be back to barer areas until it does it again. The pond came out beautifully. You should be very proud of all your work.
We do have a lot of projects but it takes us years to complete them. We had planed to put a pond in 15 yrs ago and just about the time we were ready to start we developed a sinkhole right were the pond would go. We drilled a few test holes and found that there was a spot on the property were there had been trees buried and as they decayed the land settled. So we waited until the land finished settling and gave it a few more years just to make sure. The upside is that we will not have to do as much digging just give it a little more shape and depth. We though we might have been able to get it started last year but we where waiting for the rocks. Our new neighbor dug up huge boulders when they put in their basement and they had piled them along the edge of their property. I talked to them and they were very happy to get rid of them and offered to move them over on our property when they had the equipment come back to do some other work. We never got them until fall. So the project got moved back another year. Here are the rocks I was talking about. One of them has a natural basin in it, with an edge that kind of fans out. That will be where the water falls just before it goes in to the pond. That's my youngest Son Jamie and his son JR. just to give the picture a little scale and because Grams's rocks are fun to climb on. LOL
Holly, those are some awesome rocks for a waterfall! I'm envious!!! I would love to redo my waterfall with larger rocks like that.
SongsofJoy, What a beautiful natural looking waterfall.
Thank you. I enjoy it, but I really do long for rocks like yours ;o)
SongsofJoy,
I love your waterfalls - so natural looking.
HollyAnne - I have stone envy! They are reallly some great rocks!
Carolyn
Yes, "BUT" I will not only need to move them but carefully place them in and round the pond. So a good heavy duty liner and pads are very important. I was wondering if I should put a pad of some sort between the rocks and liner. I'll be interested in see how RatherB does with hers.
With rocks that large, you will definitely want to use a good underlayment. I would suggest first putting down pieces of old carpet (staples removed) where you plan to place the largest rocks. Then use a layer of underlayment for the whole pond, waterfall area. Then the liner. I would also add strips of extra liner (2 or 3 layers) in the areas where you'll have the heavy rocks. This will help protect the main liner. I also would not get anything less than 45 mil EPDM.
Holly Ann: I WANT YOUR ROCKS! Wait until I find out where you live! HeeHee.
I have been reading different sources, so this is not from experience. I saw where they poured in some type of concrete footer bases where the largest will go (on the ledge where the rock will go). I will have to look and see how thick this should be.) This gives them some additional support to keep your rocks in place and not sink deeper. On top of that, they placed the underlayment (or carpet), then the liner, then the rocks. I would love to know if putting a piece of underlayment between the rock and the liner is ok for the fish and wildlife. I was thinking something to keep any sharper areas of the rock from being in direct contact of the liner, to avoid holes. Maybe someone has an idea about that...
I have some larger rocks, but not quite that big...
Songs of Joy...
You have certainly accomplished a natural-looking water garden. It is beautiful.
RBD
I researched long and hard before ordering my liner. I checked out most of the sites listed above and finally purchased mine from Webbs on line.
http://webbsonline.com/
I was very happy with the customer service and when they delivered it to work I backed my Ranger truck up to their truck and we slid it off theirs onto mine. My liner weighed 250#, yours sounds like it will be bigger so it will weigh a lot more also. You may have to have it done differently because of you health problems. Even with shipping my liner was cheaper than the next cheaper place I checked. I have ordered from them several times now and have been happy with all of my transactions.
My pond is 17'x18' and I ordered 20 x 25' liner. I had enough left over to make 2 small Lotus ponds. This year I want a water feature with the last of the leftover liner.
We did my pond in 3 installations because of money issues. We did a 12'x13' top pond the 1st year, the second year we did a 22'x 4' stream and the last year we did the bottom pond and connected it all. I love my pond but I have changed lots of things since then. Last year I replumbed it and took all the black corragated line out and put 1 1/2" pvc in everywhere, we put all the drain lines for the filters in and buried them so I can turn a valve and empty the filters and have it pumped away from the pond and garden. I put a shutoff below the filter so when you turn the pumps off to clean the filter all the yukky stuff doesn't go back to the pond from the pump line. It is still a work in progress but it is getting there. It gets better every year.
dylancdc:
Thanks for the information. I will certainly check them out. I appreciate when you can say the price was low and the customer service was high! That's a bonus!!!
I would love to see yours, if you have a photo. I love the idea of burying it and having the drain lines away from the pond to areas that can benefit from the drain water. I would like my filter below grade some anyway, too.
Great idea about the shut off valve...I remember one time when the pump turned off and when my upper pond siphoned right into the bottom one and it was down to no water on the top!! If I were not home soon after, so much would have been lost. I certainly realize the value of THAT plumbing.
I don't know that i have pictures on this computer. I may have to get some from the home computer. Nope, none on this computer.
I am the same...I have some on the laptop and the rest are in the home computer....
When you can, I would, as well as others that have joined in this thread, love to see them.
See if I can find some now. This is when the water was still green that 1st year.
Those ponds look nice, even if they are green.
Ric and I have been talking to pond builders and suppliers. Getting more info and suggestions. If we don't get the big pond in this summer I still have my smaller water features. That's why I picked the smaller water lilies and lotus.
Since that picture we have added a UV light to help with the algae. The ponds are nice and clear now. The dogs keep my rocks knocked into the pond most of the time so I spend alot of the time getting them back out. Last year my lilies in the top pond grew great but the ones in the bottom didn't do much, so this year I think I will put concrete blocks in there on end to get them up out of the bottom better. Since our pond was hand dug our plant shelves didn't work out as planned, so now I will improvise. I should have built up the far end some but after spending 4 mos. digging this hole I was about sick of it. I was ready to be DONE digging. This will be it's 5th year and it gets better every year. We got rid of all of the black corragated pipe and put in PVC, that worked great. PVC is so much less expensive than the black pipe also. I put all of my marginals in the stream last year and they grew like crazy. I finally started giving as many as possible away. As you can see my ponds are in full sun so I put on a bigger filter to combat all of that algae, I am glad I did.
Good luck getting yours going this year, they are work but worth every second you spend on them.
One of the professional pond guys was telling me about putting in a natural bog filter. I will be going over to his place to see it and get more info. I think that a Bio-filter is based on the same principles. I know that running water thru a bog, wetland or mangrove swamp cleans the water but I can't quite picture how you push enough water to make a waterfall thru a small bog to clean it? He had some very nice pictures and invited us down to his retail shop to see how his works. If we are interested they will design everything and put together a package and we can install ourselves. Wonder what kind of price that will be? But I should get some good info from them. Next week we are going to 2 other flower shows and there is another big pond guy at one of those. So I can pick his brain and visit his shop and see what he can put together for us. By the time we get done doing "our 4 months of digging" we should have a pretty good idea of what we want. LOL
Holly:
I am not an expert at the bog filtration, but I would imagine that you would have two places for water to enter the pond. A bog usually needs to have a slower flow to it to work efficently. I think you need to split your water flow and put a valve to reduce the flow through the bog with a greater flow through the water fall.
In my old pond, I did not have a bog, but I had two ponds with a small one in the middle. I had most of my plants at the top for show, but also to make it like a vegetative filter. I did have the flow at only one source, but I put the hose for return towards the front of the upper pond. That way some of the water gently flowed to the back, with most of the force towards the falls. With that, and my filter made with old hard curlers for my bioballs, I had very, very clear water without needing a UV light. If I have room to do it, I was thinking of adding a smaller one with a waterfall later on, after I get the big one built.
Anyone out there listening have a system like that? We would love to hear from you and how you do it. I guess that would be a good topic to start a thread...
LOL, Where did you get those old hair curlers? Ric is definitely a do it yourself-er.
He took one look at those bio filters and said I can do that with a 50 gallon drum and some old hair curlers. LOL
We are planing to put a small bog area in but it would be at the bottom of the pond area. You know the falls with the deeper end then as the pond moved away it would get more shallow (a good place for water lotus) and then the bog at the end farthest from the falls.
I got most of mine from yard sales here and there...I did see some at the dollar store last week, too. Did you actually make yours using them too?
I think that will look great with the bog at the far end...it will be able to take over the overflow in heavy rains.
He hasn't put it together yet just says he can and I may just leave him do it. He can be very inventive, but sometimes I would rather he would just buy the right thing to do the job. LOL
My filter that I think works the best is a 55 gal plastic drum filled with that curly pvc stuff then it goes to a stock tank with bio balls and back to the pond.
I have a picture at home of the design.
I forgot to answer you Tammy. I get my Koi in Neosho at Oakridge? Koi. They have a website. They have the beautiful fish that are on the website but they also have babies that I have bought for $10-15 each and let grow. I'm cheap, I can't afford to buy the big ones. They have a great setup and they are very helpful to newbies.
dylancgc, when you have a minute, send a photo please with your set-up...I would love to see it.
Holly-your husband sounds very creative! Good for him. I think many people have done the same or better than the more expensive commercial equipment. Once you know the principles of the matter, creativity will flow! Hey, remember, I had totally clean water with my homemade filter with the old hard hair curlers! ;o) Now that it will be bigger, I will get more of them to put into the waterfall filter to add additional surface area.
But before...guess I better get ordering the liner!...
To: RatherBDigging, I just enlarged my pond and I had planned it since last fall. That is when I ordered my pond liner & I also ordered a underlay 10'x15', I ordered a 20'x20' Firestone- 45 mll EPDM p. liner. I ordered them from "Webb's Water Gardens", I had ordered thing from them before and was very pleased, that is where I get all the things I need for my fish and pond. We did our pond last week, and we are very pleased with the liner and underlay. I really didn't need that large a liner but I didn't know what I needed. I hope this helps you, this liner has a 20 yr warranty, you can get it at .47 per sq. ft. it was only $152. plus shiping.
I ordered from justliners.com and their prices were very good. It is a 20X30 liner so it is coming by freight but was the cheapest shipping I could find on that size.
Webb's is usually very good on shipping. I am sure it depends on how far you are from them also.