Wintersowing for Hummingbirds & Butterflies??

Hi, all--

It's that time of year when everyone on the Wintersowing and Perennials Forums is getting out their saved milk jugs and plastic containers and potting mix to start their 'Winter Sowing' of seeds... (If you are not familiar with the 'Winter Sowing' seed starting craze--have a look at the DG Forum http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/coldsow/all/ or http://wintersown.org/

It's an easy and no fuss way to start many seeds (especially in the middle range zones of 7,6,5 and 4) and so far I have 'Wintersowed' echinacea, liatris, columbine (for HBs), cleome with many more kinds in the works!

My wintersowing set-up thus far--

I am wondering what are your favorite Hummingbird and/or Butterfly seeds you have grown using this method??

Do tell us what you've got planned for Wintersowing this season?! I need some new ideas for my Hummingbirds and Butterflies!

Thanks. t.

This is my first year to wintersow, and it is a very small effort -- a handful of assorted Daisy seeds in a round planter. I hadn't even though of using those low Rubbermaid containers. How convenient and easy! I'm going to pick one or two of those up at Target over the weekend and start some of the free seeds I got from Burt's Bees. And a few more of the Daisies. Thanks for sharing your photo.

Carla

I was just going to start some seeds indoors, and use my grow light. Now you've got me interested in your method! Have to do some reading about it, thanks for the links!

I planted out some echinacea, aquilegias, violet cleome and a few others (?) in these peat pots inside a larger bin today.

I have to remember to write down what I plant! And label! I always forget to label! (-:

'Wintersowing' works especially well here in our region for those perennial seeds that need cold/warm treatments or cold stratification to allow germination.

Tomorrow I'm going to try Aristolachia serpenteria.

You can also start annuals in early spring, of course.

T - I am doing most of my plant germination directly in the ground these days. I do start tempermental plants (from seed) in pots, but not too many anymore. And I am doing something different this year ... I am just tossing seeds into some lightly turned garden beds. It will be more of a cottage garden look. I guess you could call me the lazy gardener! LOL!

I did a lot of seed germination last year in the jiffy pots. With much success, but it is a lot of work! My hat is off to all of you who do that every year!

Yes, Becky, you are blessed with wonderful growing conditions in FLA, I think. Do you grow most of your garden plants yourself?

I got hooked on growing plants from seeds last year when I put in the long garden beds in my backyard. I prefer to grow plants that way now! Cheaper, easier, and the plants that actually germinated from seeds in my beds seem to be hardier. So I'm kinda hooked on plants from seeds now. Not that I don't grow them from plants, too. I just really enjoy the satisfaction of growing most from seeds. It's just kinda of a cool way to grow a garden! :-)

Yes, seed starting adds another dimension to gardening for me. I just learning how to do it recently myself. I love it because you can try so many different plants (at no cost or low cost!)

I'm trying propagation from cuttings and roots too this year. Would love to get the place where I don't have to buy any plants at all...

I hear ya exactly! Cheap and lazy gardening is my style! LOL!

You are right ... seeds affords you the opportunity to try plants you probably wouldn't otherwise. And I gotta tell ya ... I have grown some plants this past year that I have NEVER seen grown here! I love it when someone asks me WHAT is that plant! As they are drooling all over it! LOL! It is nice to successfully grow some interesting plants from seeds!

I wanted to include this link for tested flowers and plants for Northern Hummingbird gardens:

https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/mjrock/web/HUMMINGBIRD%20GARDENINGII.pdf

Many of these are salvias and can be started from seed under lights.

And a few of these are wintersow-able, which I find most helpful, too.

The above link is a resource created by Mike and Kathy Rock who are avid Hummingbird gardeners in Wisconsin.

T-that is a great idea for winter sowing! I bet those containers don't dry up as much as milk jugs and you can probably let the plants get quite large before having to transplant them! Do you have holes in the lids? Where did you get them?

Meredith--I bought them at Lowes in Columbus OH in the garden section--they were '5 containers for $11' in set from large size to shoe box size. A good deal I thought. Home Depot and Lowes do have clear lidded Rubbermaid containers, too, but the prices are a bit higher. I drilled holes in the lids, bottoms, and sides for venting and drainage. Some I filled with potting soil and others I am trying the peat pots with. Some have reported using these inexpensive plastic containers (as opposed to the sturdier Rubbermaid styles) for as long as three years. We'll see how it works.

Becky is the lucky one, just tossing the seeds around in her garden! And I think she already has seedlings, if I remember from another post!

I just purchased a long list of salvia and other seeds from Specialty Perennials today and I'l have to see which ones are 'Wintersowing friendly'. Pretty excited about them.

I wonder if anyone else is wintersowing for the Hummingbirds & Butterflies? We have plenty of 'winter' right now, with snow falling like crazy today!

I could never give you a whole list of what I am starting and planning this year hear - you'd fall asleep before you got to the bottom. hee hee - I have been keeping track of some stuff in my blog. and my journal has everything. http://davesgarden.com/tools/blog/ If you care to see some stuff I've started.

I think I may have to use your idea for all the annuals I'll be starting later. Or I was thinking in situ' cover with bird netting. I think I am going to run out of materials and lights long before I get to them.

Lets not even go there -on how lucky Becky is I am so jealous of your warm weather! My DH keeps saying lets go (to Florida that is).

Ha Ha Ha-what don't I have planted out- I needed to get data for the DG database so have a look at my pots

May Princess Tammy never run out of containers for Winter Sowing

Yes, looks like you have a yard full of research going! Anything for the hummingbirds in there?

Yes, I forgot about the Wintersowing Data gathering project. I will have to keep some fairly good records this year on my WS seed starting.

Meredith, if 'in situ' will work that would be wonderful, wouldn't it?! Just find a fine enough netting to keep the various critters out...

I am trying to start my morning glories inside so that I can get some early bloom for the HBs.

A few seed catalogs with good butterfly/hummingbird seeds:

This message was edited Feb 26, 2008 7:54 PM

T- You know what is funny? I just realized that you are the reason I wanted Verbena bonariensis and Coreopsis!
I saw this picture -and I was like oh how pretty! Oh - the gorgoeus tigers could have something to do with it as well. lol!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4097661

Which kind of coreopsis is that?

This message was edited Feb 27, 2008 10:15 AM

Meredith--Yes, you MUST have verbena bonariensis in your buttlerfly garden (at least for us folks up north). The seeds are a snap to start and will often self sow to a tidy gardener's dismay but to my joy! When they are about a foot tall or so, pinch some of them out a bit so you get nice bushy plants and staggered bloom times.

About the coreopsis--I have several kinds in the garden which I pick up on dollar sales at the garden centers, and so forth. I suppose you can grow them from seed, but not the hybrids and 'brand names', though, that are 'plant patent protected' and the ones I buy.

But the yellow flower you may be eye-ing in the photo is my Rudbeckia 'Prairie Sun' that I love. I usually buy some nicely grown ones from the nursery early in the season to assure early bloom and I also grow some from seed for later on in the season. A few also come back from the year before but in our wet winters I can't be sure of that. I love these 'Prairie Suns' in our garden although I have to say they aren't so popular with the butterflies...

You can buy Rudbeckia hirta 'prairie sun' all over the place now, but WFF has a nice photo :http://www.whiteflowerfarm.com/77672-product.html

I ordered many more seeds yesterday for the hummingbird and butterfly garden. And my wintersowing project is expanding to the back steps...

I'm not too late am I? I have a whole bunch of Echinacea Art's Pride Orange Meadowbrite that I want to start. I never even KNEW about this propagation method until today. We're supposed to have upper 30s, 40s this weekend so I could get some planted.

Hi, Mrs_Ed--

For more details on how to winter sow check out the Wintersowing Forum here or http://wintersown.org/

Yes, the Wintersowing Method is perfect for Echinaceas because they generally like to have some cold/warm/cold weather change to start the germinating process. Of course, some of those are easier to start from seed than others, and I suppose posters on the Echie forum if not posters here, would have those details.

I am planting four different kinds of echie/coneflower seed--magnus, pink parasols, seed collected from last seasons echies, and echies from Renee's Seed collection. I have high hopes!

I've also started some echinops to go with them-- I am not sure how those will work out with Wintersowing, but we shall see!

Did you start yet? I also have some seeds from my butterfly plant. It had a good year last year, so I saved seed and scattered some too.

In general I save lots of annual and perennial seeds, so this would be great for me.

Oh, yes, I am well underway with most of my perennials seed sown into peat pots with wetted potting mix and placed into the vented containers pictured above. The perennial seeds that require cold or moist/cold for germination really work well in our climates for WS.

Then starting about mid-march or so (in our zones) you can plant out in the wintersowing containers (really mini green houses) annual seeds that aren't so sensitive to cold/frost (hardy annuals). This way the seeds are more protected from varmints, birds, inclement weather, and the moisture in the planting mix stays somewhat steadily moist.

There is much more detail on the wintersowing forum or in the links I mentioned.

If I direct sow and scatter the seeds right in our garden the birds get them or they will rot, so Wintersowing is very good alternative (and easy) for me.

Yes, I started reading some of the links, but I could not find anything that said when one should start for which area. Perhaps I have not wandered through all of the pages enough.

Basically gardeners in Zones 5 and 6 begin to WS their perennial seeds in late January and February. Some gardeners just sow a few seeds every night after work--when ever they have time through out the whole winter...

Some of the more enthusiastic WSers get going earlier, but I think it's best to wait until last half of Feb--less chance of hazzard for your seeds. Less 'angst' for the gardener.

Then generally the annuals that are tender to frost are started later on--maybe March. They will germinate when the soil gets warm enough for them. Don't start them too early, though, because a warm spell may cause early sprouting and then a cold snap would kill off your seedlings...

A little 'trial by error' helps in the learning process and you will find out what works best for your seeds in your habitat (dappled shade/full sun/containers under the deck/whatever. Experimentation is the rule for the first year or two....

Try it, you'll like it!

okay, well, Monday is March 1, I'll be a little late, but I'll try some this weekend. Then, LOOKOUT next year.

Show us some pics when you get yours going!

And give us a seed list! We might get some new ideas!

I'm waiting for my batch of seeds from Speicalyty Perennials so I have quite a few more to do, too!

Well, all my seeds are everywhere! Shame on me. I better get my behind in gear! I WILL send pix.

Hi butterfliers!

I went through the old 'Favorite Nectar Plants' threads and "Host plant' threads looking for some new ideas so ately I have been busy as abee with my wintersowing and seed starting under lights:

My seed sowing list for Butterfly Nectar Flowers Includes to date includes:

Coneflowers: Bravado, Magnus, Unnamed, Starlight (wintersowed)
Verbena Bonarienses: Seed collected from my garden (wintersowed)
Zinnias: Cut and Come Agains, Magellans and Benary Giants (these are under lights in the basement)
Tithonia (Mexican Sunflowers): Under lights too. 'Torch' 'Goldfinger' 'unnamed collected seed' and 'Fiesta del Sol' (WS and under lights)
Armeraria (WS and under lights)
Artisimia
Hollyhocks (red/pink single old-fashioned) (WS and under lights)
Buddleia (butterfly bush) Lavender from Renee's seeds (under lights)
Alyssum 'Blueberries and Cream' mixture
Snapdragons (wintersowed)
Scabiosa
Liatris (spicata, squarrosa, pycno. and ligustylus) (wintersowed)
gomphrena (wintersowed)
Cosmos
Ageratum cutting (under lights)
Texas Mist Flower (under lights)
Echinops ritro 'Blue Glow' (wintersowed)

I know I wintersowed a few others but I didn't make a list--must go out and do that before I lose the labels! Several herbs, vines, and many salvias are under lights or in WS bins and I'll list those later!

Has anyone else been busy seed sowing?!

Let's see your lists! Maybe we'll get some ideas for new nectar/host plants for our gardens.

Happy gardening! t.

T - did you get your order from specialty perennials yet? I placed an order on Feb. 24 (along with two orders from other companies) and still haven't gotten it (I got the other two orders in about a week) I have heard they are slow but I ordered last year and I don't remember it taking a long time.
Today I sowed Hibiscus - coccineus, grandiflorus, Moy Grande ; Salvia - verticilata, regeliana, and a mystery that said blue sage (from a trade) & Cleome serrulata
Also today I sowed half of each pack of Hollyhock seeds I received from Suzy's swap. I used small plastic dixie cups with holes punched in bottom, put inside ziplock baggies. I plan on pricking them out as they sprout. I sowed half of the packs so I could sow them again next spring, since they are biennial.
I have read a few references that Hollyhocks might bloom the first year from seed if started early indoors, one said January another said late winter. So we will see what happens from a sowing the last week of winter. Some said it was the cultivar Indian Springs that is considered an annual because it blooms the first year. These are what the packs said on them:
- Indian Springs
- Nigra
- Mixed Magneta & Light Pink
- Mixed Pinks & Purples
Most likely these last two are the traders name - because I did a search to see if there are Hollyhocks with these names with no results:
- Wilmoth
- Arlene
These will be fun to see what colors I get, I hope I get some reds, which is the color I want most.
I am thinking maybe I should give them a bit of cold but I'm not sure.
Yesterday I Potted up 3 Canna indica and 12 Lupinus perennis to 3" pots, and watered all my seedlings.
Added 2 pks of seeds that should be either Painted Daisy or Feverfew to a partial tray on the top of fridge (hopefully the painted daisy because these were on my wish list)
Sowed a bunch of seeds from my orders...
Geranium maculatum
Eupatorium coelestinum
Penstemon heterophyllus 'Blue Springs'
Salvia azurea 'Grandiflora'
Phlox pilosa
Phlox divaricata
Liatris scariosa
Asclepias purpurascens
Put in unheated room for cold treatment.
Did I mention I am not technically winter sowing this year? I have just been putting flats in my unheated room (at least it is coming in useful for something!) I've been trying to catch up on my seeds - an awful cold/flu went through the family (me especially) and between that and working 15 more hours per week - it put me out of commision for a while. My baby still has a runny nose!


This message was edited Mar 17, 2008 8:05 PM

Meredith - I, too, am interested in info about growing Hollyhocks. Maybe someone will jump in here that has grown them and can give us the low-down on them.

I sowed seeds last year and never really saw but some pathetic starter plants. Never got big or anything ... and certainly NO flowers either.

Okay, Here's what I planted this year (I started small, just a few containters)

Columbine "Bunting", Some other blue columbine, Echinacea "Art's Pride", Echinacea "Harvest Moon", Sweet Pea, California Poppy "Ballernina", Lychnis Coronaria, Mixed Yarrow, Red Poppy. I think that's it. I have a few annuals to put out later.

I have grown hollyhocks in past years. This season I am putting in a few rose colored ones for the hummingbirds and butterflies.

For germination I try to soak the seeds overnight. Sometimes I add a dash of H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to the water--about a 1 to 20 ratio. I haven't had them bloom the same year, although I think if you choose the right variety it can happen. Or if you start really early to sow seeds. I just read up on the annual and biennial hollyhock differences in the Stokes Seed catalog and now of course I can't remember exactly what they said... )-: Oh, well, what else is new?!

This year I planted 'Indian Spring' seeds from Renee's Garden Seeds. http://www.reneesgarden.com/seeds/seeds-hm/flowersD.htm

Renee says these particular old-fashioned (mostly single) alceas rosea will bloom the first year if planted early in the spring. I planted seed about a week ago and have a few sprouts. Maybe 3 out of 8. I looked up holly hocks germination on the internet the other day and it said germination could be irratic, although they are known to self sow quite often, so it can't be that hard to grow! I am wondering when my other seeds will pop up, though!?

Meredith, no, I have not received my Specialty Perennial order from Feb. 26. I emailed them yesterday saying it was getting so late I may have to cancel and I haven't heard back. Will call today. I don't remember such delay in the past, either, but others on Watchdog sure have complained in the past several months. It looks like you found seeds from somewhere, though! You have quite a long list under germination! Can't wait to see pics of your garden next summer!

I have had pretty good germination of my seeds under lights this year. I am still waiting on echinaceas to pop up and this delay is getting me frustrated so I must practice patience. Most of my seeds are WS outside and there is no green in my containers yet. We need spring to arrive! And our Specialty Perennials orders!

T- You should be getting your specialty perennial order any day now! I just got mine today, and I ordered on a sunday - so really it was only one day earlier than you. Suzy was right on when she said she just expects her orders with them to take 3 weeks! So the only problem now is 7 out of 9 of them need cold treatment, one needs 12 weeks OMG I better get these going! I know what I will be doing first thing tomorrow morning! At least I have a flat already filled with pro-mix and ready to sow - I knew I held off on that one for good reason. I am out of humidity domes now and have to wait for other stuff to germinate or else buy more.
Happy seed starting :)

My Yvonne's Salvia still has not germinated. Can't figure out why not. I had one other salvia right next to it that didn't germinate, too. Mmmm...I think it was S. 'praeclara'. I am sad the Yvonne's has not done a thing for me. Everyone who has it seems so excited!

So here's what is in my second order form Spec. Perennials:

SPECIALTY PERENNIALS
Salvia coccinea 'Coral Nymph'
Salvia coccinea 'Hummingbird Lady in Red'
Salvia farinacea 'Evolution'
Salvia x superba 'Merleau'
Salvia splendens 'Sahara'
Salvia splendens 'Blue Ribbon'
Salvia lyrata 'Purple Knockout'
Salvia nemorosa ssp. tesquicola
Salvia patens 'BlueBand Mix'
Salvia przewalskii
Agastache aurantiaca 'Apricot Sprite'
Agastache nepetoides
Agastache urticifolia
Artemisia annua 'Scentless Sweet Annie'
Lobelia cardinalis
Alyssum 'Oriental Night'
Rudbeckia hirta 'Indian Summer'
Rudbeckia hirta 'Prairie Sun'
Asclepias curassavica 'Apollo Yellow'
Rudbeckia hirta 'Irish Spring'
Rudbeckia hirta 'Irish Eyes'

Meredith, how is your cold room plan working? Will you be putting some under lights or hope germination won't happen until warm weather arrives?

I must have been loving the Salvias the night I placed my order! At least they won't need cold stratification for 12 weeks! Rudbeckias might. I'll have to look them up. Hope I get my order tomorrow. I'm going to Calfornia next week and I'd like to get these in the ground.

Went out today and planted pansies and artimisia for the butterflies. I've forgotten which butterflies like artemisia...? It's a little early to be planting here, but I thought pansies might be able to withstand a cold snap.

I'm going to put my alyssum seedlings out this weekend if it stays warm. I may be jumping the gun, but I do have five more packs of alyssum to sow if I need to!

I thought since we did the Butterflies and Hummers Seed Exchange we would have a lot of winter sowers reporting?

I am planning on going with the flow out there - if I want I can take stuff out early and grow under lights or wait and see if it germinates in there. Depending on how much room I have left. I don't think I will have room for any of it besides the one flat I've already brought in. So my hope is everything will germinate in there then I can bring it right outside, hopefully I can find a good deal on one of those plastic greenhouses. Or I was thinking of making some make shift cold frames with plastic - but I don't know if this is a good idea? I have a thermometer out there so I can watch what the temps. are and it generally stays within a few degrees of the actual outdoor temps. which have been in the 30's and occasionally low 40's. I was out there doing inventory and good thing I noticed a couple sprouts! I pricked them out and stuck em under lights - it was Knautia macedonica - which apparently? likes to germinate at low temps. I think it will also work well for penstemon which according to tom clothier's site need max 41F. That is the only way I could think to provide that temperature range indoors (besides the fridge which I cannot fit a bunch of flats in, unfortunately I don't have a spare fridge like I did at one time). I just thought it was like winter sowing without having to brave the elements and avoid the worry of tops blowing off or containers blowing over. This way is much more convenient for me to check for sprouts.

Yes, it seems like it would be convenient to have the seeds in the cold but not in the mess!

Interesting about the penstemon needing 41F. I guess I'd better take mine off the heat mat: I should have read the small print! I am trying the penstamon for both the butterflies and hummers. I read the Baltimore Checkerspot likes penstemon as a host plant for young caterpillars.

I am going to start several of my herbs tomorrow and put part of them outside and part under lights. Then edge the garden with parsley and some of the other neater ones.

The sun was shining today and we were busy in the garden uncovering some of the mess around the walk to the front door since it's 60F out today. A few early daffs are blooming and about 6 crocus (out of the 200 I planted--squirrels) and then we came in to find out snow is predicted for tomorrow.

I am reluctant to remove too much of the winter garden mess since I became interested in the butterflies and found out they overwintered in the broken branches and mulchy stuff.

I don't know which penstemon you are trying but you can look it up here. http://tomclothier.hort.net/page08.html All the ones I'm growing need 40F. I am into penstemon for the same reasons as you. HB's and cats! It's amazing that you are only azone warmer than me and it sounds like you are having much milder weather!

Well, I think we are premature in uncovering our plants and putting in pansies but we are going away next week and I wanted to get something in for Easter too. We experience the odd snow storm into April here and our weather is extremely changeable. Difficult really to successfully garden because of the weather extremes from day to day.

Do you get Baltimore Checkerspots where you are? Our 'Ohio Lepidopterist' newsletter came this month with a story about how they are very rare in Ohio in recent years because of habitat loss. The Checkerspots like habitat found in 'fens' which are disappearing (turning into shopping centers, I think). The Checkerspots require chelone as a host plant and the cats like penstemons so I thought I would grow them, although I don't have a 'fen' nearby!

I haven't seen any but I still planted some chelone just in case! I think they are rare here as well. I also read something recently about the cats changing their host plant in different instars. Maybe it was on one of the links you posted. I started some penstemon last year and can't wait to see if they flower this year. Hopefully they have not succumbed to the winter. What type are you trying this year?