I don't get it! I see maybe one or two GF and the ocassional Zebra Longwing butterflies near my Passiflora. But I never see any cats or chewed leaves. The vines along my fence are outta control again.
Here you see the vines.
Passion vine
Becky,
What variety of passiflora is it? Are these the ones you started from seed? Trudi
And now they are gone!
Yep! I whacked them all down today. They are just growing everywhere. I was thinking we'd get a cold freeze and they would die back. Nope! So I spent the afternoon cutting them down to about 8-12 inches from the ground. I think I need to try a different Passiflora vine. (sigh)
If the GF and ZLW butterflies would lay eggs and eat the vines, I'd be delighted. I have raised GF from the school on my Passiflora leaves and they do just fine. So why don't the GF lay their eggs on mine? I just don't get it.
The only other thing that I can think of is that a predator is getting the cats so they never get big enough to see. I don't know.
This message was edited Feb 10, 2008 8:33 PM
I have no idea what cultivar of Passiflora they are. Someone gave me seeds at work and didn't know what kind of Passiflora they were. I grew 11 of them and planted 8 of them along that fence. And as you can see in the first photo, they grew quite well!
It just frustrates me to see all those vines and leaves and NO CATS!!! Grrrr .... And then I (yes ME) have to cut them back because the caterpillars aren't eating them like I thought they would. Sheesh! What a waste of a good vine! And a waste along my fence if the dang butterflies aren't going to use them as a host plant! (Oh bother, as Pooh would say!)
Well I was going to suggest that you had a variety that didn't support the caterpillars but if you are feeding the leaves to GF caterpillars and they are doing ok then HUH. The vines seemed really large, how old were they? Did they ever flower for you? A wall of pasiflora flowers is an impressive sight. Another thought might be that even though the captive caterpillars ate them, maybe it wasn't their favorite. I have 5 varieties in my yard now and I only have caterpillars on one even though I know 3 of the varieties should be a food source and has been in the past . Trudi
Trudi - You might be right. Perhaps they prefer a particular type of Passiflora. The vines are a little over 2 years old. Grown from seed and grew most aggressively. They were so heavy that they were pulling the trellis off the fence. HA! So I finally had enough and decided to take care of them myself today. Whack, whack, whack! What a chore! Believe me, they will grow back quickly. I pruned them back quite a bit last year too.
They finally did bloom for me this past year. Lots and lots of fruit. (And seeds!) The flowers are kind of a paler lavender color, almost white. They are large round blooms. I think they would be prettier if they were a darker color of purple. But alas, not very noticeable. I will have to dig through my photos from 2007 and see if I can't find a photo to post here. If they had the pretty purple or even the beautiful red like Lady Margaret, then that would be something to want to grow them for besides cat food. But I'm just not impressed with this plant other than how fast it grows.
I found a photo I took back in October of the flower.
Here is what the unripe fruit and leaves look like. The leaves are different than most Passiflora leaves.
And here is a view near the end of the fence looking back towards the house. I whacked them back just like I did today about a year ago. I don't fertilize them or do anything to them at all. They just grow ... and grow ... and grow! Can you say Jack and the Bean Stalk!? LOL!
You know ... if anyone wants seeds, I have plenty to share. Perhaps some of you that have Passiflora that the GF cats eat to the ground ... you could grow this one too. And then just move the cats over to this vine. Use the other vine to entice them to your yard and then feed them this monster vine! LOL!
This message was edited Feb 11, 2008 12:44 AM
Becky,
I had a vine that was doing great too but alas no cats on it. Mine is also shaded a lot and doesn't bloom well. However, Debness brought over a big group of her GF cats and released them and they went to Chrysalis and eclosed nearby. After that I have eggs and cats, I am happy now! She said they needed to get the scent of eclosing butterflies to help draw them to the vine. It worked!
Sheila
Becky,
Being of a stubborn nature and armed with my "Passion Flowers" by John Vanderplank, I have named your passionflower! It is, for the record, P. edulis flavicarpa. " The most important and widely grown commercial species." If you buy a passionfruit in the grocery store , it is probably it. ( You would probably pay 3 bucks for it too!) The good news is that the butterflies should be eating it up, it is a food source for GF's and longwings. I might also add you could possibly sell all those passionfruits to support your gardening addiction. Have you considered a roadside stand? :) Trudi
This message was edited Feb 11, 2008 2:27 PM
Becky, is it possible that your city or some of your neighbors sprayed for mosquitoes and killed off your local GF butterflies? The reason I ask is because my vines were chock full of caterpillars all spring/summer/fall last year, while a friend's in Plano (~20 miles away) were absolutely empty of butterflies or caterpillars. Why were they so plentiful in my area and her vines (plants that normally were full of caterpillars) were empty? She found out that her city had been spraying for mosquitoes. She had very few butterflies all summer long. Might that be a possibility?
Carla
Becky, how many plants are planted on this fence?
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4522632
I have a really ugly fence to cover... may I have a few seeds please.
Caren
Caren - D-mail me your address again. I have 7 vines growing on that fence section. There was 8, but when I cut them back I saw that one had died previously. (Probably was over run by the others.)
Becky, I have the same problem!! Mine is "Incense" and loved by the cats...when I have them! Every year tho I have a fence of it (not as big as yours tho) and it's never eaten. I end up having to cut it down because by the end of the year it's pulling the trellis over.
My observations tho have been that ANTS along with many other predators are devouring my eggs. When I go looking for cats or eggs I always find tons of little spiders, wasps, assassin bugs etc. I've actually seen the ants carrying eggs before.
I gave my neighbor a piece of the vine a few years ago and they planted it in their front yard. (not exactly the perfect spot) Immediately they started getting cats on it and freaked out. LOL! Every year they have so many cats and so little leaves so I take some and raise them inside with my vine. Her vine even produced seed and mine never has! Last year I found a large GF cat on my water hose in the front yard and knew it had crawled across the street from their house. I took it inside and it pupated that day.
Anyways, I'm just as frustrated as you that I've almost considered cutting it down this year. I've GOT to find a way to keep the ants off of it if not. :(
This is just a section of mine.
Paige - Yours is beautiful!!! I wish my blooms were that shade of purple. So pretty! The leaves on mine are very large which is probably why it covers the fence so quickly. And it IS a nice vine as well. You may be right about the predators. That is what I have been thinking. If you figure out a way to combat and solve this problem, please, please share it with me. I do see GF and ZLWs around my vine, just no cats. So something is definitely up! I know my plant is attracting the butterflies. It is so frustrating!
Thanks Becky! It is beautiful and smells really nice too. I'd be happy to send you a piece since they'll be popping up where they shouldn't. (it scares me to think of what that root system looks like underground!!)
I really think if I could take care of the ants that would make a huge difference. My neighbor's is just sprawling all over the ground and climbing up some "thing" but it's not next to a fence, so it's got tons of cats. That's the only thing that I can find different, but I don't want mine in the middle of the yard!
You know...now that I'm thinking about it, I did find eggs on a piece that had sprouted away from the fence in my bed and I had layed it on the ground back towards the fence. They lay on the tips of leaves so maybe I'll try keeping it cut back some so that the center is not so thick. ? Nah, I won't remember and won't want to when it starts blooming. I'm a sucker for a blooming plant. lol
Oooh, you are sure tempting me Paige! I love the color of your flowers! Yeah ... why not! What's another Passiflora in my yard. I have too many of the same kind. I need to mix it up a bit! LOL! Yes, I'd love to get a volunteer or cutting. Let me know how you want to do this ... trade, SASBE, or whatever! I'm game!!!
Humph! That's really interesting about your neighbor's vine. So what's up with it growing along a fence vs the ground. I don't get it! So annoying! I want GFs in my yard. LOTS and LOTS of GF and ZLW butterflies and cats! SHEESH! Not like we don't have any food for them or nectar plants! Go figure!
I ocassionally prune mine, but I love the lush look it gives along that fence, so I am like you ... I hate to cut it! It about killed me to whack it down to almost the ground again this year. (sigh)
Trudi - Thank you for the probable ID of my vine! I'll check it out. You are probably correct! Thanks for taking the time to look it up and compare. It's amazing just how MANY Passiflora cultivars there are! :-)
Yes it is amazing how many there are. When I was thumbing thru that book trying to id yours, I was going " I want one of those, and one of those, and one of those...". On another thread we were talking about dried passiflora seed germination. I am thinking of ordering some exotic variety seed for the fun of it. and speaking of beautiful passionflowers..
Paige, your "Incense" is drop dead gorgeous. I had an " Incense" 5 or 6 years ago but it died. After seeing yours I am going to give it another go.
Trudi
Carla - YOU have a good point. I am wondering if that is why my butterfly population was down over last summer. We do have mosquito spraying during the summer months when the bugs are really bad. Gosh! To think that spray kills my lovely butterflies! That does NOT make me happy! I need to do some investigating about that and find out if that is the case here. I know some districts use spray that coats the water and doesn't kill other insects. But I don't know what they are spraying here. Hmmmm ....
This message was edited Feb 11, 2008 10:22 PM
Trudi - I found this website with a photo. It certainly does look like mine:
http://www.gardenpassion.net/Tienda/itemDetail.cfm?p_id=719
Trudi, if you'll send me a dmail now I'll send you a piece of my vine when it starts popping up. (that way I'll have the dmail to remind me) It definitely has some beautiful purple flowers on it!
Paige
Paige, thank you so much, that is very generous of you. Would you like me to try naming some things I have for a trade?
Becky,
That was a great pic on the site link you put up. I am pretty sure that it is yours. And just think, it says " pruning is a must to keep the vine healthy". So now that you have wracked yours down, they will only grow back bigger and stronger :) Trudi
I had several different varieties of passionvine last year on my fence: P. incense, P. incarnata (maypop), P. vitifolia, P. caerulea, a native white passionvine, P. lady margaret, and P. lavender lady. Of all these, by far the most favored by frits was the maypop. They ate it to the ground. The next most used was P. incense, then P. lavender lady. The others weren't even really touched.
:) Kim
I have p. caerulea, p. lutea, and p. incarnata. The latter two are still very small. So far the cats have only laid on the caerulea. The incarnata is planted only a few feet away, but I've never seen eggs or cats on it. With the caerulea, as soon as I take the eggs inside, some GF will come along and lay some more. I actually got to where I had no leaves on it a few weeks ago, but they gave me a break and now it's growing again (which is good because I found two eggs this weekend).
I had Incense at one time (I killed it, I admit it) and I actually got pictures of a ZLW ovipositing on it. They haven't found the caerulea yet, maybe because the Gulf Frits won't leave it alone. I planted the p. lutea in the shade hoping the ZLW will take advantage of it once it gets a little bigger.
That's so odd that they aren't attacking your vine. It might be a good idea to call your county (or city) and ask about their mosquito spraying program.
Melanie
I've to concur with Blue-Eyes; I've Lady Margaret, The blue pass. and Lavender, only my Maypop (incarnata) was the most favorite of the G.F. The others, they don't even make fruits for me because b.f. not even nectaring on them.
G.F. loves these vines, these are native here.
I don't know about Becky but I know my city doesn't spray. (yay!) Now, that doesn't mean neighbors don't but if that was killing my butterflies it would be killing all my other visitors, good and bad, and I've got plenty of others.
Paige, I think I remember your big 8 legged friends with big webs! I had a lot of Assian bugs this last year, until I started searching and squishing daily.
I also have the Maypop and the GFs eat it faster than it can grow. Right now I have a half dozen or so cats in the cage and I'm having a hard time finding enough vine to feed them.
Strange, though, that you're not getting the GFs. I've heard that they don't like Red passionflower, but all the others should attract them. Didn't you have the same problem last year, Becky? Sounds like it's definitely something going on with pest control or something.
I'd like to have some seeds, too, if you still have some. All of the Passionflowers I can find at the local nurseries lately are the red ones.
thanks,
Terrie
Need to get some cats to eclose on your vine Becky......got to have that scent to draw them better. Anyone close to you that has extra cats right now?
Terrie - Will send some out to you. D-mail me your mailing address.
I don't think it is pesticides right now. (Maybe during the summer.) The reason is that I have so many other butterflies in my yard currently. If it was pesticides, I wouldn't have any butterflies or cats. I have so many Monarch and Queen cats right now it isn't even funny!
I do see ants on the vines all the time. I have seen ants actually drinking the nectar in the morning. Big ole' drips of nectar coming from the vine. So my guess is that it is predators. The ants would destroy the eggs to keep the cats from hatching and eating their precious food source. And I had at least 40-50 fruits from these vines this past year. It was 2 years old then. I have heard they don't bloom the first year after growing from seed. They bloom in their second year. So something is pollinating them. Butterflies, Bees, Hummingbirds, Moths, what?
Also, when I first planted them as young vines, I had Gulf Fritillary cats all over them! Lots and lots of GF butterflies in my yard. In fact, they were the dominant butterfly. Now it is the White Peacocks. Though I have a lot of Monarchs, Queens, Skippers, Sulphurs, and Whites hanging out lately too. I haven't seen any Black Swallowtails in a while. So ... I doubt it is pesticides.
I don't know about your area, but here the GFs and BSTs were long gone before the Monarchs and Queens arrived.
I am ready for the return of the Swallowtails though, my parsley has made it through the winter and it appears healthy and thick. I have dill, fennel, and great nectar plant seeds to plant, thanks to the fall seed swap!!
Sheila,
I, too, am ready for the return of the Swallowtails. They are definitly seasonal. I bought up some beautiful fennel plants that were on sale and they are just waiting to be gobbled up.
I'm happy too, to find that Parsley and Fennel are proven to be hardy here in my zone. I've seen little moths last weeks. Here comes the return of our butterflies!!! Wooohooooo.
Kim
You have Monarchs, Queens, Sulphurs, White Peacocks, etc. and you still want more? Stop being greedy woman! LOL!
Melanie
I'm telling ya, it's the ants! So what we need to know is if those of you that have vines being eaten are seeing ants on yours??
Becky, I looove your White Peacocks! Either I just didn't see many or you need to get more pics of them this year.
I've got Queen Anne's Lace, fennel (that has survived this winter), and rue waiting. The dill and more fennel are coming up.
Sheila, what scent do we need from an eclosing GF? Are you referring to males being attracted to the eclosing females? I'd agree, but my thinking is the female is the one that lays on the vine so it's not necessarily the males we need to attract. (it makes sense in my head..lol) And YES, I did have the giant garden spiders again, in the same spot too, but not near my pv.
Paige - I did a thread on the White Peacocks that I raised in the Fall:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/796080/
They are so different and so pretty. I enjoy all butterflies, so I don't think I have a favorite. Though I still love my Monarchs. Who wouldn't love a butterfly species that will follow you around the yard if you hand raised it! LOL! Monarchs rule in that category!
Melanie - Oh yes! I am being greedy!! After not having any butterflies at all for about 5 months, I want them ALL in my yard now! LOL! And I wouldn't be surprised if the dry spell for butterflies WAS due to pesticides. They spray around here in the late Spring and all Summer into the early Fall months. It makes me sick to think that poison is killing my buttterflies! Grrrr ...
I am not sure, just took her to mean the fluid that they both have extra in their chrysalis maybe. Debness.....???
Sheila - It would make perfect sense to me if the females emit a scent to attract males. We all know that the male Monarchs have a scent pouch on both of the lower wings to attract females, so why not the other way around as well. I would guess that the scent of cats on a vine would attract even more butterflies? I truly believe that individual scent from many insects plays an important role in insect population.
Did you know that Bees mark their scent on flowers? Other bees won't nectar from that bloom.