Minnesota Brug Update

Hello All.

We're expecting a high temp of -1 F here tomorrow, but my Brugs are snoozing happily in the basement. It took a couple years, but I think I now have this overwintering thing down. Last fall, when I brought them indoors, I removed most of the leaves and added a systemic insecticide to the soil (I'm not thrilled about using chemicals like that, but, otherwise I would lose them all to spider mites). Once a week, I give them about a cup of water. That's it. I expect each and every one of them to make it through the winter just fine.

Only three more months until outdoor gardening season here!

Erick

Congrats Erick! I use that, too for mites. Looks like a greenhouse with the windows! I've kept them different ways, they seem to bloom sooner in spring if I keep them slow growing. I hung more lights this winter, but I am fighting aphids... I love your optimism, 3(three) more months! It's a little less for me, but it still seems SO far away... love your rock wall.

Wow.. mine don't look much better and they are in 70 degrees with sunlight and flourescent light.. my atrium.. I am just trying to keep them alive.. fought spider mites.. have sprayed with some of the polymer stuff that protects plants from mild freezes.. knocks down the spidermites really fast.

Tammie

Looking good Eric...
lasa.. HAHA I was thinking the same thing. ...his... with some little bit of natural light light were looking as good as some of the ones here..
it would be nice to have them grow outside all of the time...
keep up the pictures Eric... you're a master .. grower...
Gordon

Gordon; Wow that brug is hugh!!! What a sight!!! Where was the picture taken please?

Erick, I just wanted to say I really admire you northern gardeners. I've been going crazy lately waiting for spring...and it's just around the corner for me. (some plants are already starting to peek their heads out.) I love MN...in the summer...canoeing the Boundry Waters!

I'm curious about storing in the basement. I overwinter mine in the greenhouse, but space is at a premium and I'd like to free up some room. Do they need to be in an area where there is either natural or Fluorescent light? What about watering? I currently used a predatory mite, n. californicus, to control spider mites, and I never need to apply chemicals. Is there a reason that you apply chemicals when storing in the basement rather than using beneficials?

Debra, could you provide some links on predatory mite? I need them badly. Thank you.

Thank you AuntB. It does sort of look like a greenhouse from the picture...don't I wish! It's actually just part of the basement in my condominium, right next to the laundry area. I further attack any possible spider mite problems by pouring cold water over the growing tip when I water them weekly. I am delighted at how well they are getting through.

Thank you Tammie. I do keep some of my newly-rooted cuttings under growlights (including my first doubles!), but otherwise I simply don't have the room to keep my large Brugs under lights. I'm just lucky they overwinter so easily in a semi-dormant state in the basement.

I appreciate the kind comments Gordon. I am not a master grower by any means, but I do have a passion for gardening, particularly growing tropicals here in Minnesota.

Thank you ashleykelly. I envy your earlier spring! We are expecting windchills of -40 F here tonight. And yes, that is a negative sign next to the 40. Bitterly, bitterly cold. And yet, it was a perfect day to pot up my Cannas for the 2008 gardens! I agree with you on Minnesota in the summer...is amazing.

dbsmith2, thank you for the great questions. I'll attempt some answers. However, I caution that these are just my opinions based upon my limited experience with the genus. Others may have better ideas/approaches. I don't think the light level, or its source (natural vs. fluorescent), really matters much, as long as there is at least some. I just group mine around the few basement windows I have. The light watering once a week keeps the growing point alive, which seems to be key. As long as there are a few healthy new leaves, the plant is just fine. They really do slow down to the point where they are barely growing. In my opinion, there is really no benefit to keeping them under lights/in a greenhouse over the winter. They will just look bad, attract bugs and put out cruddy weak new growth with the reduced light levels. I certainly would prefer to use a non-chemical approach to controlling spider mites on my Brugs over the winter. But it's just not practical for me to release a small horde of predatory mites in my condominium basement. Plus, the spider mites wouldn't be completely obliterated and would come back with a vengeance in the dry air after their predatory cousins bit the dust. I don't need that constant battle.

Erick







This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 9:35 PM

This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 9:39 PM

I buy from IPM labs in Locke, NY. It's $12 for 1000 n. californicus, and $13.80 to ship to me, but I get shipments of different beneficials at the same time, so that is my total shipping cost. Carol has 4 different types of predatory mites that work well in different conditions. I like Carol because she takes the time to speak with me even though I'm just a small personal greenhouse. Her site:
http://www.ipmlabs.com/plantpests.php

Erick - thanks for the info. I think I'll do a basement trial next year. You might want to read about the n.calfornicus. It can tolerate lower humidity and starvation. And you don't really see a horde - they are invisible to the naked eye. I swear by them now - and they are a lot cheaper than the chemicals you need to rotate for effective control in a greenhouse environment.

This message was edited Feb 9, 2008 10:40 PM

Thank you, Debra, I'll look into getting some for my brugs.

Thank you from me too! I am going with less and less chemicals if I can... the more "natural" stuff I do for my brugs, the more they reward me! I really want to get away from the chemicals, it ruins the good stuff I do for the earth..

Sorry to get off topic.. Eric.. that looks like the perfect overwinter setup. My brugs outside in the ground don't even look that good! The ones under shelter look exactly like yours! Great Job and thank you for posting to help out the others that are struggling to find their way for winter!

Nice pictures. I love the basement. Great natural light.

Gordon! WHERE was that picture taken? That brug is GIGANTIC! Has to be CA or FL, somewhere tropical? There's not a pot big enough for that one!

OH Eric.. you said it yourself...
passion for gardening, particularly growing tropicals here in Minnesota.
that alone puts you in the masters class... muchless your success and the vines..
you'll not get out of it so easy...
Kim & Bonnie.. well we've got a new line of fertilizers to make that one...
Gordon's Snake Oil and Brug Juice... to be released this spring...you're probubally getting those 10-12' brugs withthe one you're useing.. I grow them a bit taller here in Brooklyn..
but to be compleatly honest... I start my 55' tall brugs at 44' high ..
the picture was one I took in Panama... a mountain town .. most likely Boquete or Vulcan..
here's a bigger one..although it's hard to place scale to it.. the bands of crops growing up over the hill..are 4' wide bands of onions ..with maybe a 2' wide plowed furrow area in between..
it's easy..like Eric says... Gordon

Dsmith, thank you for the link. I have been buying rom another state and live very near this one.

The brugs I got from you are doing great in the greenhouse! Thank you.

Hi Eric!
It looks like you have a perfect place for overwintering. I too admire growers who grow tropicals up north. Believe me, its tough to get these things through winter here in Florida. One freeze and the whole shebang is mush. Or a cold spell with high winds that burn off the growing tips and leaves.
I've had to haul huge numbers of plants indoors during hurricanes, and I know full well what an arduous task it is.Then, keeping them alive inside...Oy Vay!!!

For those of us that live same zone as I do. Brugs can be used as herbacious perennials. Though, I find, the more mature a brug is, the more profuse it will reward us with more blooms.

Thank you dbsmith2, I am definitely intrigued now by the predatory mites and will check into them.

Thank you for the kind comments ZZsBabiez.

Gordon, I will consider myself a master gardener if you insist lol.

Thank you Liz. I'm currently overwintering ~150 potted tropicals. Lots of work, but totally worth it when I get all the ooohs and ahhhs about my gardens in the summer!

Just for fun, here is a pic of some of my large Passifloras and Aristolochias "resting" on my south-facing porch. I don't expect to lose a single one this year. It is now -8F outside here.

Regards to all,

Erick

This message was edited Feb 10, 2008 4:28 PM

Now I have more questions. I have my passionflowers and aristochias in the greenhouse. For the most part, they are in 20 - 22 inch pots with 5 to 8 foot obelisks. What size are your pots? Do you have trouble with plants being potbound? How tall are the obelisks? How often do you have to trim in the summer on that size obelisk. Here's a picture of some of mine in the summer:

and another. I can't find a good one of the obelisks. You can see them at the back of this picture. It's the best one I have.

dbsmith2, you have some beautiful plants! I would love to see more! Many of my favorite plants are vines as well and I grow most of them in containers too so that they can be moved easily. I'm running into the same problems as you. I'm looking for attractive ways to let my vines grow tall while keeping them in pots.

I will as soon I can go check to see if I can find who made some pots we found at a great price. They are large plastic square 10 gallon pots which have a detachable pyramid top that just snaps on. We use them for passi's, morning glories, thunbergia etc. We found them in a garden center for $14.00 each, I wish I had bought all they had and we are planning on getting more this year.

Here is a picture of the top early enough in the season so you can still see the latic top. It is about 66" tall. Everyone who comes to our garden admires them. They never tip when it gets windy.

dbsmith2, your gardens are STUNNING! I grow all of my large Passifloras and Aristolochias (as well as others, e.g. Rhodochiton, Solandra, etc.) in 12" clay pots. For trellises I simply use large tomato cages modified a bit at the bottom with a pair of wire clippers - they are cheap and sturdy. I don't have any trouble with my plants being potbound, other than it can a challenge to keep up with the watering during the hottest part of the summer. If I set them in the garden, they tend to root into the ground through the pot, which is just fine. It's still very easy to cut them out in the fall. Once I have them placed in the garden, I tend not to prune them unless there is a problem, e.g. one is totally smothering another. I may wrap the vines down into the trellis some, but otherwise I enjoy seeing the them travel and drape. Last year I tied some string to the nearby trees and my P. loefgrenii var. Corupa, P. 'Purple Haze' and P. 'Indigo Dreams' all climbed well up into the branches and bloomed up a storm. It was a gorgeous display.

That is a great trellis theraglady. I get some ideas from that...thank you for sharing.

Erick

I allow mine to grow on the lattice around my deck. By fall they have covered it. And it's pretty when there are multiple blooms... when it's time to bring in for winter I trim back to within a couple feet of the trellis (that's in the pot), store in the basement and they rebound wonderfully in spring. I've had them completely brown by spring, but they start greening up right away. I am keeping them around 60 degrees and more light this year, so I'm not experiencing as much brown as years before. I've got them in big pots, 1 is even in a 25 gal tub and has been for 4-5 years. I'm thinking of covering my huge old fiberglass satellite dish with some kind of netting and letting them cover it this summer...

Will Passiflorias grow in super hot climates if placed in mostly shaded areas? I would love to grow some. Mty brugs do OK if shaded in the afternoon.

Tammie

I am VERY NEW First time grower Last year I brought a Brugmansia plants all the leaves fell off well I kept it and all of a sudden I have leaves growing and I see new green on the stems today it is 0 and I have it in my beedroom what I am asking if I put this out side will it grow?I am in IL. That wood be in the spring and do you keep it in sun or shade? Thanks for reading
Dimmer(AKA) Kim
I will send a couple of pic dose this men it will grow?

pic 2

Sure does, Kim. It will be fine. Leaf loss is normal when changing their environment. Offer a small bit of water every week or 2, it will flourish once you can slowy acclimate it to being outside this spring. Some take more sun than others, I'd start with full morning sun and offer some shade or filtered sun in the afternoon. Tammie, I grow some passies up here in KS, it's triple digit/even higher humidity in summer, they seem to thrive on it. I have Lavendar Lady, Purple Haze and Curuela(sp) & Lady Margaret.. mine are all in pots, so if they seem to want less sun in the afternoon I can find a place to keep them sunny in a.m. shady in p.m. and they spend the winter in my basement.

Should I start to water now or wait now I do it maybe once a week and also i put in fretelizer maybe once a month cause i have it for all my other plants thanks so much for getting back so quick
Kim

The phone is quiet at work, right now.. lol I don't fertilize in winter, I may offer some Ironite or Superthrive (vitamins for plants) but whatever you're doing is working.. so, I'd keep the watering schedule the same as you've been.. They are really very forgiving plants with a iron hard will to live once established... and lots of people here will help if you think something weird is going on. You're doing great!

Thanks so much you have helped alot
Kim

Dimmer, I second AuntB's always helpful and excellent advice. You seem to be doing everything just fine with your Brugs. As AuntB more thoroughly explains, the goal now with your plants is to keep them SLOWLY growing with the best light you have to offer indoors. They are essentially "resting". There's no reason to push new growth now. Water them like you have been doing, which is regularly but letting them dry out slightly between. Keep an eye out for spider mites. Move them gently into the garden this spring when temps allow and await the fabulous show!

Make sure to post pics of your first flowers.

Erick

Oh, that pic is just a glorious brug to see, it has such a nice form and a lovely flush! Just beautiful! I appreciate you elaborating, Erick...(phone must have rang) Are you keeping warm? I heard there was a record low of minus 40 degrees somewhere up that way, it said by noon it had "warmed up" to -18! BRRR Those brugs and all tropicals are sure happy to be in the basement today! Kim, welcome to the wonderful world of brugs.. Once it warms up and the plant really starts to grow and put out even more new leaves, you'll want to pot it up to a bigger pot.. You can plant them in the ground and dig and/or take cuttings in the fall, or keep them in pots. They can stand temps of about 40 degrees without damage, just don't let them freeze.. (although in warmer zones they die back to the ground in winter and grow back the following spring)
Gordon, :) I thought it was something like Panama, imagine having it year round on your roof top garden! .. It's marvelous! I like the patterned hill, too!

Now you all have me so excited about this plant will mine flower and be that big in a summer Oh I just can't wait.

Erick or Aunt B should I use some Alcohal for precaution for spider mites Or is that when they go out side in the spring I think at this time I have over 4 hunder plants indoors small one and I sure wood hate to debug all my plants

Thanks Kim

Dimmer... well a bit of alcohol right away as a beverage would be OK... to calm your fears.. but it's not a good preventive for the spider mites.. just watch yours till it goes outside... and spary something.. on first sight..
and you can get yours flowering first year.. just provide plenty of food for the growth and blooming.... and a large space for the roots... a big pot or in the ground if you have some.. and feed... did I mention feeding. . I start mine off with an natural manure mix.. and then onto a more flowering balanced food... sun...water... did Imention food... you should have no reason not to get plenty of first year flowers.. Gordon

Thanks Gordon
But as the Manure mix I think I will wait I have been growning African Violets for many years now and I think I should go to other Plants And Good friend of mine has just given me so many different kinds of seeds so I brought a stand growlite timmer and heat mat so I am off either I will get some starter or a high electric bill either way it will be worth it.
I also think that I have seeds isn't a Datrum in same with the Angel I will learn
Thanks again
Kim

Brugmansia and Datura are different... Datura is more of an annual and the blooms reach up toward the heavens- hence, Angel trumpet, some slightly nod down if the blooms are really heavy. Brugmansia, can winter over and the blooms hang downward-hence Devils trumpet.. both are poisonous. But you are going to love both of them. You will have blooms this summer. I put worm castings in the dirt for help deterring spider mites... don't know IF it works, but it seems to for me... Also the mites down like wetness, I mist from time to time, (don't know if that helps, either) I'm battling aphids right now, AND I think I'm winning! What a surprise for you Kim, seeing the green on a plant you'd given up on.

Wow Erick.. amazing picture!

Hi Dimmer.. I see you mentioned a heat mat? Brug seeds don't do well on a heat mat.. they tend to rot... If you have a light set up, that is plenty warm for seeds..

I hope you are ready to spray every plant... cause if you have them (brugs) they will come (spider mites)
I don't wanna wish it on you.. but I'm just bein real.

Good luck and post often with PICS of your blooms this year!