Young brug cutting that wilts from the tips down....

This is a Noid White cutting of a vigorous growing brug. In order to overwinter this large brug. I had to trim down the tip branch for ease of moving it indoor last Fall. The tip took root in water, I potted up, past month it seemed to have done well. This morning I found the cutting is wilting from the tip down. Anyone may know what's the culprit?

There is no sudden changes in temp. Air-circulation, and the soil is moist, however, I did see some mealybugs on the new growths that wilted.

#1 First picture is the Y-branch of the cutting. This is relatively green still, next picture is the other branch of the Y--and it wilted big time.

# 2, the opposite Y-branch was growing fine, then I found the tip was drying up this morning, now it works its way down to the next healthy branch. (The potting soil appear saturated -- not dried out).

If you think soil is too wet, put couple paper towels under pot to soak up moisture,remove when wet, keep putting dry towels under until it is dryer. I also mix lots of perlite(tiny white balls)into soil before planting plants, helps keep well drained.

Gloria

The light sources is adequate (for adjacent small cuttings), No other cuttings (as of now) seems to be affected. Ooooh, 'Whiskers' cutting IS also affected, but was in a more gradual fashion. First Whiskers dropt its leaves, then wilt from the tip down. So was 'Sun Kissed' Over water? Potting media too "water retentive"?

As you can see here, the dried up tip of same cutting above.

Hi Gloria, we just crossed posted. Thanks, I'm heading down to the basement and try to wick some water out of the pot, and see if I can. Thanks for the tip.
Kim

Much luck, keep us posted.

Houston! We've got a big problem!!! Help!
Gloria, I suspected the new potting media maybe too water retentive. Yesterday I went out to the nursery that I got potting media from. Reported the problems, and my suspection of such. They switched from the "too expensive Promix" to this one, in attempt to save a few dollars for a 3.8 cubic foot planting soil. I was forced to try this "new" one at the end of my growing season (the first large bag of medium that I've ever purchased from them). The nurseryman assured me that, this product is just as good as other, so far. There is nothing that they can detect from their own big "greenhouse". It looks like I need to take my cuttings back to the nursery, show them the problem. And insist on getting my Promix? That aside, there is no excess water from the pots that I kept, I placed papertowels under the pot, there is no wetness wicked out from there.
I also elevated most of my tender cuttings on a rack as seen here. There is no pooling water from below the pots, either.

The mentioned 'Whisker' cutting is wilting from the tip down. (Same pot as pictured above).

The white brug cutting with paper towl in attempt to wick out any excess moisture, there was none! It's in the soil.

Not all are being affected. A cutting of 'Insignus Apricot' that was potted earlier during last summer (ends of July), is sending out flower buds. Only some of those that I potted in late Sept. are showing signs of stress! (when I switched the potting media).

Kim, like Gloria, I add a good amount of Perlite to any soil mix, even the Miracle Gro brand, especially for my brugs.
They just don't like wet feet, that's what I found.

Thanks Jaye, it's repotting time. Let's go gardening. This is my first winter overwintering brugs. Big hump in my learning curve here!
Kim

Kim, I'm with you on the ProMix, it's the best! I was using another brand for a while, since none of the local nurseries carry ProMix. I started noticing some rotting and the general unhappy look from many of my potted plants that usually thrive. Went a couple weeks ago and got a bale of ProMix and the plants that have the fresh soil are SO much happier!
Good luck with your brugs!
Cathy

Kim,

Glad you found the problem. You could replace some of the top dirt in pots, just don't dig too far down so as to damage roots or plant. Hope all plants can be saved, if you caught it soon enough.

Gloria

That's too bad Lily... they can "go south" so fast from wet soil, it's hard to catch before you have a real bad problem.
I see in your photos you can't see the soil surface.. Personally, I need to be able to see the soil cause I want to see it getting lighter when it's drying out. Maby the leaves and wood chips are helping to hold even more moisture in.. (just a thought)

It's hard in winter to keep them from getting too wet.. I have actually resorted to using a moisture meter sometimes in the GH cause it's hard to tell if they are wet...
Good Luck.. I hope you can remedy the problem!

Thanks Cathy, Gloria, Jaye, Joyce for your concern and input. Joyce, it has never dawned on me the pine mulch on the top of the pots would even impede water evaporation further. Thanks all, I'm doing something for these babies, and hope that the problem would soon be corrected.

Kim

Kim just a thought, pine mulch is fairly acidic ...I would not use it for that reason.
I also only use sharp river sand with a little old cow poo or compost for perfect drainage, since I haven't had to overwinter brug stuff ...perhaps it is different for you, but that is my two cents worth good luck mate, I know you must be disapointed but brugs are pretty tough don't give up.
chrissy

Acidity! Another factor into the problem at hand. Chrissy, I'm glad I turned to fellow gardeners for ideas to problem solve. One thing it's still purzzling to me is that, it (the brug cutting) wilts from the top of the outer-most branch down to the base. Where as water-log, in most case with other plants they would affect the plant from the root base (as in root rot) and works its way up to the plant?
When I nip off the dried portion; I noticed the cambium was dried up and works its way down to the healthy portion of the cane below.
These are my plan of remedies;
1. Repotting the growing media with good drainage material.
2. Soil test?
3. Avoid adding acidity mulch.
4. Use moisture gauge to determine watering time during winter months (Like Joyce has mentioned, whished we could use 2 different types of growing media for the brugs, one that would retain more water during the growing season - brugs are extra thristy. But, a fast draining medium is so important when we keep them indoor during the winter months -- in our climate).
Thanks everyone.
Kim

I have had rooted cuttings do this during the winter months. I had a cutting totally wither to the ground once and then it sent up a new plant from the roots. I would just say be patient and don't overwater and you will probably see it again

I had the same problem with wilting & dropping leaves but my problem was that it was to cold in the basement, It only happened on the north wall & the other brugs that was on the other side has blooms.

ZZ.. I have a mosture meter that works great, you could use the mosture meter on baby's to see if they are wet. HEHE.
jerry

Kim I agree with Jazzpunkin I had some do that but in checking the roots there are new sprouts coming up. I think mine got a little too cold also!!!!

Jeri

Thanks Jeri, Roseman and Zazz; I'll be looking out for the plants to respond, and keep us all updated.
Kim

Yes I think Temp and reduced light have a lot to do with it. I have noticed that brugs react strongly to changes in environment but then they come back. I have wondered if they drop their leaves to send out ones that are more suited to the current environmental situation.

Lily_love:

If your plant is suffering from root rot try using H202 (Hydrogen Peroxide) when watering...it will help!

http://www.h2o2oxytech.com/h2o2-uses.htm

Jan...also fighting aphids on my overwintering brugs and dats...UGH!!!

This message was edited Jan 31, 2008 11:25 AM

Lily the H2O2 has also worked good for me in overwatering type situations. You don't have to wait until it is next time to water.

I'm not sure I can tell from you pic, but is it the higher up one that is wilting? Those look like they might be very low-light leaves, they're really hard for a plant to hold on to those all winter in storage like that. Even if they seem to be growing ok, the plant will often consolidate down lower & let the top die back a little, stealing nutrients away before retreating (hence die-back from the leaf tips first).
That could be what you have there. The main trunk die-back goes very slowly, so it can seem to have a delayed effect. Once it reaches each side stem, then that one is history and acts like you have there.
To slow down the retreat, I would reduce the leaves (pluck most except for the small ones), keep it cooler than you have now, and be very cautious with the water. From your skinny & soft, but extra long leaves it looks like maybe you have it too warm for the low amount of light you have.
To stop it completely, the only way is to kick it into full gear & grow your way out of it with high light, middle temps, and adequate humidity. That's really tough for most of us this time of year.
If I'm wrong & it's plain overwatering, then on a big, soft-leaf water hog like a brug then you would expect the roots to rot first, invisibly, then the leaves just crash before you see anything creeping up from the bottom of the trunk, because it is so dependant on the water it was getting from the now-gone roots. Your plant can be be starved for water even though the soil has too much, so it can also look just like you described and it's a real possibility too.
- Tom

grrrnthumb; LOW-LIGHT, that makes perfect sense! The problem was suspected, and DH helped me corrected it a couple weeks ago. We obtained shelves from hardware store, created pedestal-like tables to bring the smaller plants closer to the light source. Many factors that can play a composite deleterious effects on my cuttings here...

Currently the temp. is kept at 58-64 F. Humidity reading 58-68%, with 24/7 box fan to aid circulation. I hope with that, it will keep them holding, 'til I can move them outdoor.

Thank you for your invaluable input.
Kim

Lily that's good news about your lights, but 58-64 would be way too warm for me. I think at that temp you'd need really massive light to get big healthy leaves and less problems. Mine are at about 40-55 with a 1000w halide. :^)

We've evidence of adequate lightings*, although some smaller plants are being shaded out by bigger ones, thus creating a 'microclimate' within a small gh. lol.
My conclusion is Low-light. I'm closing this thread with that final conclusion. Previous questioning about potting soil porosity is erronuous. The cuttings are showing signs of improvement after my lightings were adjusted. Thanks all.

*Without adequate lighting, I wouldn't have afforded these beautiful blooms in the greenhouse for instance. :-)

Well congratulations Kim, I'm sure glad your cuttings are doing better. :^)
- Tom

Thank you Tom, I owed you this one! Right and square. After all YOU are THE ONE that gave me the final differential diagnose of the problem.
Your help is greatly appreciated.
Isn't DG great or what?
Kim

This message was edited Feb 8, 2008 3:48 PM