I need to move some trees; kwanzan cherry, purple leaf plum, cornus kousa, japanese maple; into new boxes on a Manhattan terrace. The old cedar boxes are disintegrating, and I plan to move them into new 28" square teak boxes in early March. I plan to break the old boxes to remove the trees, tip the trees on their sides, tip the boxes, and have several strong men lift/slide the trees into the new boxes, righting them as they go. Has anyone ever done this and if so can you offer any hints as to how to make this safe and successful? Also, other than pruning any roots that look damaged, I was not planning on doing any root pruning. But is that correct? I hope to do this before bud break, to minimize the shock to the trees. You can see the problem in the photo of the tree on the left.
Any advice would be most welcome.
tips on moving large trees into new containers
I've never moved anything that big...but on pruning the roots, if the new boxes are the same size as the old boxes then you may need to do some root pruning if the trees had gotten at all rootbound in the original boxes. But if you're moving them to larger boxes then you should be OK, prune out any bad ones and untangle the rest if the trees were a bit rootbound.
Just curious. How long have they been in these containers? And what size are the current ones? Is the red leafed tree (JM?) also in a box?
I have lots of experience repotting & root-pruning trees large enough that it takes two to carry them. In my estimation, you're missing a great opportunity if you do not bare-root/ root prune when you change containers.
If you care to learn more, read this posting of mine:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/maple/msg1221035722336.html
If you have additional questions or comments, I'll follow the thread for awhile & help as much as I can. Please keep in mind that your choice of a durable soil with a high mineral component is very important to vitality in long-term plantings.
Al
Your trees are lovely. The job ahead is formidable. I have two large grapefruit trees potted. They are large enough that I will no longer pot up to a larger size pot. When the task of watering them becomes too much, I know they need to be removed from the pots to prune the rootball. I remove at least 1/3rd of it and add as much fresh soil as possible. This needs to be done every two to three years. I have also found the plant responds better when the tree is also pruned at the same time.
Just out of curiosity, Im growing this pomagranite (see pic) and presume I will get to the point where transplanting and possibly root trimming will be something I will need to do as well. I dont think I'd like to move up to a larger pot so would it be recommended to do the root trimming and replace the soil with fresh soil and pot back in the same one? I dont want this
plant growing out of control like I've seen some pomagranites do so I thought I'd keep it in the pot "4-ever" to keep the size controled. Can anyone advise or correct me?
Your question is piggy-backing on another's thread - I hope Mer doesn't mind.
Judicious and regular root-pruning & canopy maintenance will allow you to keep a tree in the same container for many years before you absolutely must move up in container size. Eventually, assuming you can meet the cultural needs of the tree as it ages, watering issues & o/a tree mass will dictate the move up, though. Trees that are grown in root-bound conditions display less extension of branches as the first symptoms of being grown tight. As the root constriction increases, growth decreases until the plant stops growing altogether, and "A plant that is not growing, is dying." Dr. Alex Shigo."
This thread is so interesting! I've been doing this to houseplants for years with great results. I have a Norfolk Pine that I've had for almost 15 years and kept it at about 2 feet due to root pruning.
Topic: "tips on moving large trees into new containers" ; i think my question is in the same topic. Thanks for all responses
Thanks for the tips. Tapla, your link is very instructive. My instinct is to do some root pruning, but I need to learn more about how much and which roots, in order not to shock the plants. The trees have been in these containers for many years. All of the trees are in containers as it is the 17th floor of this building. I did not plant them, so I'm not sure how long they have been there. Not counting the containers, each tree is about 6'-8' tall, with 2-3" caliper trunks.
thanks
Deciding which roots to prune is easy. (During dormancy and just before budswell) I would remove the bottom 1/3 from the root mass (saw) & then remove an additional 1/3 of the largest roots from the the remaining root mass, severing them as close to the base of the tree as possible. Large roots are of no value to the tree except as conducting (water/nutrients) organs and to help anchor it. It is the fine roots that do the lions work when it comes to absorbing water & nutrients. You keep containerized trees healthy and growing closest to their potential genetic vigor by making sure there is no old, calcifying soil in the root mass and eliminating as many large roots as possible on a regular basis to make way for container colonization by fine rootage.
I have many containerized trees with 4-6" diameter trunks. I choose to keep the height of the trees proportional to the trunk diameter, which makes my trees much shorter, but height of the tree is of no significance in deciding how to treat the rootage.
Good luck.
Al
Thanks tapla...great info...would you recommend any top pruning at the same time?
If the trees are dormant - there is no actual need to prune canopy (but you'll probably want to for the sake of keeping the trees compact & manageable) - the trees will not activate more buds than rootage is capable of supporting and the idea that you must "balance" root:foliage reductions of dormant material is passé. If trees were in leaf (never a good choice to repot temperate deciduous plants at this time) the canopy would need to be reduced substantially if you were to do significant root work.
Al
Al
What if the trees are conifers? When is the best time to repot?
RatherB
It depends on where you live & what conifer. Where you live, (close to my zone - 6a) I would suggest you repot Juniperus, Taxus, Chamaecyparis, Thuja, Tsuga, ...... just about everything but Pinus. About the time buds are moving on most woody deciduous material in the landscape - about the time Forsythia blooms. Repot Pinus around mid-July to early August. All conifers prefer a gritty, fast draining soil.
Al
Thanks, Al!
One last question regarding transplanting large trees...do you do anything special to protect yours in the winter? In containers, is there any danger to any tree with cold winters? Or once you get to the really large sizes, is it the same for the tree whether or not it is in a container or in the ground?
Hope this still applies to the topic...
RatherB
Because I have so many containerized trees, I don't want to go through the effort of burying them in the garden & beds to over-winter, so I house them in my unheated garage. The only trouble I have is in the fact that the deciduous trees always leaf out too early because of high soil temperatures (compared to the garden & bed soil temps).
Yes - there is danger to trees because of low root temperatures. Each species of plant has a general range of cold-hardiness. Within the species, cold-hardiness is genetically determined. That is to say that a plant that is propagated from cuttings or tissue culture will have the same ability to resist cold as the parent plant. Plants cannot "develop" a greater degree of cold-hardiness by repeated or prolonged exposure to cold, even after 100 years (trees).
If we pick any plant at random, it may or may not be able to withstand freezing temperatures. The determining factor is the plants ability to prevent freezing of bound water. Bound water is the water inside of cells.
There are three kinds of water to consider. The water contained in soil - when this water freezes, and it can freeze the soil mass solid, it doesn't kill the plant. Then there is free or unbound water, also called inter-cellular water. This is water that is found in plant tissues, but is outside of plant cells. This water can also freeze solid and not kill the plant. The final type of water is bound water or intra-cellular water. If temperatures drop low enough to freeze this water, the cell/tissue/plant dies. This is the freeze damage that kills plants.
Fortunately, nature has an antifreeze. Even though temperatures drop well below freezing, all plants don't die. In hardy plants, physiological changes occur as temperatures drop. The plant moves solutes (sugars, salts, starches) into cells and moves water out of cells to inter-cellular spaces in tissues. These solutes act as antifreeze, allowing water in cells to remain liquid to sometimes extremely low temperatures. The above is a description of super-cooling in plants. Some plants take advantage of another process to withstand very low temps called intra-cellular dehydration.
A generally accepted guideline to hardiness in containers is add 1 zone. In other words, a plant hardy to 5 might only be hardy to 6 in a container. Again, this is a guideline. There are a number of factors that affect the cold-hardiness of individual plants, some of which are length of exposure to seasonal cold, water availability (drought stressed plants are more cold tolerant), how recently planted/repotted, etc.
Trees never "get used to the cold" or become more cold tolerant because they might be exposed to increasing cold each year. Every tree has the exact cold tolerance that it was genetically programmed with for its entire life. Trees that are vegetatively reproduced (cuttings, e.g.) will have the exact same degree of cold tolerance as the material they were propagated from, for the life of the tree. However, young roots are not as cold-hardy as older, more lignified and perennial roots, so young trees are somewhat less cold tolerant than older trees.
Roots succumb to cold incrementally. The fine rootage dies first & the tough old lignified roots last. From this, you can see that even though a tree may live if exposed to, say 10* temps, it's likely that it will have suffered extensive root death and will wake up in the spring acting much like a large cutting. Cold damaged trees leaf out late, grow with reduced vitality, and exhibit less increaser in biomass than their protected counterparts, so whenever we can, it is prudent to try to keep our over-wintering temperate tree's roots above 25*. Interestingly enough, even in the coldest MI winters, our 6" soil temperatures rarely fall much below 26-27*, and there are soils in the cedar swamps of MIs upper peninsula that have never seen frost. The point is, just because the air is cold, it doesn't necessarily mean the roots of in situ trees are equally cold. Consider that point when you decide on winter quarters for your over-wintering pals. ;o)
Al
This message was edited Feb 23, 2008 7:14 AM
Why, thank you, Al. Great information.
I asked because of the trees in the photos above that were located on the roof tops...I can't see them moving in to the size of my garage! I move in many of my smaller containers, though. At least to get them a zone hardier is a good rule for those that cannot move in.
RatherB
I have been growing a fig (I think it is a Brown fig) in a large , I think 7 gal. pot, maybe a 10 gal. for 5 or 6 years. It is time for it to be repotted. I have in the past just removed some old soil and added new, but I do want to repot soon this spring. I keep it in my slightly heated garage storage room over winter. Trying to use the good soil info that Tapla has provided I hope to use better soil than before. So far I have not located any pine fines, I did buy a bag of the smallest bark chips I could find. Actually any info pertaining to repotting figs would be appreciated.
Donna
I'm pretty sure we're straying from Mer201s original subject & hi-jacking the thread, and I apologize for that. I'll start another thread soon where you can ask any repotting/root-pruning questions you have.
Al
Thanks to everyone, esp tapla for timely and useful info. We did move the trees. It took 4 men and a tree sling, as the japanese maple, which is about 12 years in that box, weighed about 600 lbs! The others were about half that. We broke apart the old boxes, slid the trees out, I pruned the roots with pruners and a sharp japanese saw, added some new soil to the new box, and lifted the trees into place. We packed them in with new and old soil (container mix) and watered well. I'm due to go back up there in a week or so, and we'll see how they look. Happy, I expect.
Let's hope so. ;o) Good luck!
Al
Very interested in seeing photos of your backbreaking work! And glad to hear that a regular person can do just what they tell you to do in books. Linda Yang describes such a procedure.
Very glad to see your photos! The trees look great. Did you prune the branches at all?
