I just found broadmites on a handful of cuttings I potted up about a month ago. I have the following: Neem oil, Anti-Stress 2000, and the "recipe" as well as a small bottle of Avid. Before bringing out the big guns, will any of the others kill broadmites? Do I spray everything in the greenhouse? or just those infected with broadmites? Grrrr. I hate broadmites!!!
A pale New Orleans Lady
If it were me, I would spray everything in the greenhouse. I found that the Anti Stress doesn't get rid of broadmites on an already infested plant. That has been my experience. I think it probably works better spraying it before an infestation happens.
Yup.. me too.. Broad mites can be a nightmare and really fast!
wow another thing to worry about I hope none of my brugs get it........
Pictures of what the broadmite infestation may look like Bettydee? I understood those are tough, microscopic organisms.
Mealybugs are other pests, beside aphids that love to invade our plants!
Kim
Yeah Kim that is so true I get white fly every year little critters.........
OHHH, AS and oils will kill broad mites. But not as effective as a good dose of AVID or Forbid. I have just decided to buy me a bottle of Forbid because I am just plain tired of dealing with the constant assault. I clean my acre growing area up and a month later here they come again. I now spray my neighbors house at night while they are asleep. He is my source. Make sure you kill them all as to avoid them developing immunity to AVID. I also seal my cutting tops. Mr broadmite likes to make a hole and kill you from the inside also. Grrrrrrrrrrr I hate mites.
Just go with the AVID and save yourself the headaches. AVID works like magic on broadmites...take it from me. I think fort lauderdale is the broadmite capital of the world. Make sure to follow up a week or two later to get the hatching eggs but that should be the end of them.
Grrrrr! I went out to take a photo of the damage and found even more plants have broadmites. Friday was the last day I had been in the greenhouse and what a difference three days make. We worked the cattle this week-end so I didn't have time to spray. It's now clear I have to spray everything. The plants showing the most damage didn't photograph well, but this photo shows the thickened and curved leaves on a different plant. I also discovered I have spider mites too. Will Avid take care of spidermites as well or do I have to use a different spray? Does keeping the greenhouse on the cool side encourage problems? The thermostat is set at 45ºF. Is that too cold? I'd prefer 50º, but 45º is a compromise with he who switches the tanks, DH. Temperatures in the greenhouse fluxuate between a low of 43º to a high of 85º+.
Jpotts, What is AS and which oils?
If the cutting is small enough to go in a bucket or into the bath tub I will recommend that you give it a hot water treatment. That took care of a heavy broadmite infestation in my collection. It came in with some cuttings that I have bought from a Brugmansia seller, so I have learned always to give this treatment to any Brugmansia that enter my premises LOL
I'm afraid that the infestation has spread to too many plants for the tub treatment, but I'll try to remember that advise. The broadmites might have come with a bunch of cuttings I bought since my surviving plants were clear all year. How hot should the water be and for how long do you soak them?
It makes it much easier to spray if you remove most of the leaves. We know that leaves will grow back quickly and fill out the plant easily. They aren't pretty to look at for a couple of weeks or so, but neither are infected plants that the mites just keep attacking because some of the little critters are missed when spraying. It's about time for some kind of mite to attack here. I can hardly wait. :-(
A few of my just rooted cuttings are also infected. They only have a few small leaves. Would it hurt them to remove the leaves they have?
If they would be easy to spray with them on, I'd leave them. The water bath is 115 degrees for 15 to 20 minutes. If you submerge the whole pot, remember that the soil will have to get to 115 degrees also.
Thanks everyone for all the help! Audrey Hepburn is loaded with buds that are beginning to open. She's always been very healthy even when other Brugs have been hit by broadmites or spidermites. I don't mind removing most of her leaves, but her buds too?
AS and oils are the smother way to kill them. Horticultural Oils this time of year are cheap and a good way. Avid and Forbids are the King Kong killer of mites. Use them and then develop a smother program to prevent, and quarantine all new plants. ( treat them as if they have mites and diseases).
Spider Mites are easy, broad mites are real hard. You cannot tell unless you have a microscope other than plant decline. In the deep south states, mites are pretty much epidemic. Mites are pretty much with us for life at this point. The only way is to make your brugs less desirable to mites. They will pass everything else up to eat them.
These crazy mites are adapting so fast. On another forum there was a person who said they bred a super mite to test chemicals on them for a chemical manufacture. Well the broad mite has no predator it is too small. Agriculture does not treat for them just too much money for a little benefit. So they never die in the south. Welcome to the super mite he is with us for a while. All the things like high humidity, cold, heat etc... they have overcome and breed to epidemic proportions.
Spray to kill with chemicals or they will become immune. Use only one chemical and they will become immune in 3 or more treatments. Chemicals are when you call the fire department use them in an emergency and use cheaper prevention methods in between. All we need is immune mites to the newest chemicals due to chronic use and selling on Ebay. It could come to your house anytime. All it takes is a few immune ones to breed with your regulars. Mites are scary
I think I might actually have some broad mites on a few cutting I got recently. I got some Avid and I want to go ahead and spray everything including the seedlings....
My question is how young of seedlings can you spray with Avid? And will it also work as a preventitive to protect the other ones from getting mites?
Thanks
~Lenette
This is my first use of Avid, but from other threads and from literature I've read, you don't want to use the same chemical too often or the mites become resistant (Read jpotts' last paragraph.) You do have to respray a second time in a week's time to get any that have hatched. You might want to use something like Neem Oil as a preventative since mites don't develop immunity to it. Keeping plants growing and healthy seems to help as well. Then there are some Brugs that seem to fall prey to everything that comes along. Those you may want to either keep far away from the healthy ones or toss them.
I normally do more lurking than posting but I've got to jump in and say that keeping these brugs healthy seems so very overwhelming to me. I know that with experience comes knowledge, but the scariest part for me is that none of these critters can be seen. Learning to identify which pest is causing which problem seems so impossible to me at this point. I inspect my cuttings at least twice a day. None of them look "good" but why is that? Is it broadmites? Spider mites? White fly? Stranglebrand?... ....or is this just the way they're SUPPOSED to look in January? Why are my leaves yellowing? Why are my leaves dropping? *sigh*
I suppose if I can make it through my first winter and see what they look like when they're outside and happy I will gain a great deal of insight. For now I guess I'll just keep reading and trying hard to not make myself too crazy.
Sorry for the rant on your thread Bettydee. Good luck with the mites!
I think you said it right Lala_Jane. It can be overwhelming. I have been growing brugs. for about 7 or 8 yrs. now and sometimes keeping them healthy is still overwhelming, but of course I am trying to keep approx. 70 brugs. happy at a time.
The longer you grow them, the better you become at spotting the damage early.
I battle with spider mites and broad mites every year because our climate is hot and dry in the summer. This year I am going to do things a little different. When I take the brugs. out of the house or greenhouse, I will spray them with Forbid which a very sweet lady on this site shared with me. A couple weeks later, I am going to follow that up with the anti stress product that has been talked about so much as a preventative measure. If I didn't have the Forbid to work with this year, I would be spraying each of my brugs. with Neem oil mixed with a little systemic miticide, then following it up with the Anti Stress product. The longer you grow these plants, you will come up with your own method of dealing with the insects. Every year about Sept. I ask myself why I put myself through this every year, but then once I start getting my Fall blooms, I know why.
Patricia
Lenette, if you don't have a huge infestation of broad mites, I wouldn't use Avid on everything till you absolutely have to. Save it for the "big gun" back up when the Neem can't keep up. cause, yes, that day will come if you have more than one or two brugs!
I have a few that got Broadmites.. it IS a big deal.. but not something to bring out the big guns for unless yet. Like Betty is experiencing, it can travel real fast, but if you can catch it before it has spread.. it is not impossible to keep under control. As hard as it is to get rid of Broad Mites... I'd still wait to use the Avid.
With Broad mites, I strip off leaves... the leaves will NOT recover from the damage anyway... put them in a garbage bag and get them out of there. You won't know if you got it till you get new growth that isn't bumpy and curly... and yucky looking.
I timed my spraying with Forbid last year so 3 applications would cover the entire year... in between, I used Neem and other organic spays.. I really got to enjoy my brugs last year!
I sprayed Forbid in April, July and Nov. I am going to try my best to stick to that schedule again this year...
I've been foliar feeding daily, and am hoping it will help the plant to overcome some of this on it's own.
I see the spider mites in the pic, Betty.. are you sure of broad mite? If the dry curling is on new growth, it could just be spider mite sucking the life out of em'... any older leaves cupping? I always say I'm cutting back my brug inventory, but I never do. I'm finding ways to make them bloom sooner in spring and which ones growth patterns I like.. some like being fussed with, some are just cast iron-give em water, food (an occasional pestial spray of choice) and stand back. Have fun and IF you lose one or some, us DG'ers will share. I can't wait to put mine back outside in Spring.. Good Luck Bettydee.
I looked at the underside of the yellowing large leaves and found rusty colored webs and what looks like rust. These plants didn't have the thickened, curled leaves on the new growth. The yellowed leaves eventually curve downward slightly.
The plants and cuttings that had the thickened, curled leaves were devoid of large leaves and there weren't any webs or rust like particles on those leaves. I feel certain I have broadmites as well as spidermites. I need to take samples and look at them under my microscope. I bought my own microscope when I was teaching biology in high school.
One other thing, the thickened curly leaves could indicate a boron deficiency. I think it was Tonny who posted a thread and photos of a number of deficiencies.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/691931/
Next time I go out, I'll pick up a pH meter and check the soil, but I still think I have broadmites. The problem spread out from the cuttings bench.
Wow Bettydee, I forgot about that thread! What an awesome thread! It was a stroll down memory lane kinda... even though it wasn't that long ago.. The seedling cutting in the pic I posted in that thread recovered and went on to bloom and never had that problem again..
I checked the Ph in my entire flower bed and got it to an acceptable level.. that is the only change I made. I check everything now...
How is your plant doing? Have you sprayed?
Thank you for posting that thread.. it is very informative.
Does anyone know if there's a way to "save" or mark a particular thread so you can find it later? Other than printing it out. I am new to brugs and am sure I'll need the thread listed above. Just want to make sure I can find it later.
Thanks Cathy
Cathy,
Dave has a new system of "tagging" our thread.
1. Open the thread
2. On your upper corner of your screen, you'll see a yellow little folder...
3. Double click on that, and follow instruction how to tag them.
I just did, wonderful thread and informative. Thanks to bettydee for shaing them. Thanks to Tonny for a well written, informative posting.
ayes! editted to correct spelling
This message was edited Jan 20, 2008 12:59 PM
Thanks Lily_love! Just tagged it!
I missed Tonny's thread last year, SO informative..thanks Tonny and thanks Betty for reposting the link. All the neem and avid you could buy wouldn't correct a nutrient defeciency.. Betty, I hope you DON'T have broad mites.. I had a J.Pasco 3 or 4 years ago, and after keeping it quarantined and "dosed" up, I ended up trashing it, dirt and all that fall. I'm hoping for an early spring, dealing with 2nd round of mealy bug this winter... they've even got inside my mini greenhouse where I'm growing cuttings... arghhhh!
ZZs, I'm a terrible Brug mom. They haven't been sprayed. Week-end before last, I was getting things ready to go spray when my DH requested my help with the cattle. I could hardly turn him down since it was I who instigated the changes we are making. I have been trying to improve our herd. So last week that entailed moving 9 nine heifers and cows into a pasture with our new bull. It's an all day job because we only have one corral. The second one is still on the drawing board. Then it was so cold during week. I only took time to water dry pots and check on the sick babies. They are still hanging on. This past week-end we had a friend and neighbor, who is a member of an alliance of large local registered Angus ranches come look at our herd, give us suggestions and help us sort out the duds. Saturday, he looked at the cattle. We discussed some proposed changes. Yesterday, we sorted and moved them. I am so grateful to our neighbor for his help. My DH listens to him, whereas if I were to make the same suggestions, which I have, I would get ignored. Today, I am fighting a cold. Tomorrow or Wednesday, the vet is coming to palpate the cows that were open in October. Those that are not pregnant, will be given a shot, put with the bull and given one more chance. Another day gone. I'm hoping I'll be well enough to spray on Thursday. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! LOL
AuntB, I'm sorry to hear about your problems with mealy bugs. You could try the hot water treatment suggested by Brugie.
ZZ thanks for the info. I guess I will just spray the few new cuttings that I have that are actually symptomatic. Had lots of cuttings do great all fall but then got a few new ones that seem to have broadmites badly. The rest of the big plants look okay.
I have over 200 seedlings now- they look fine but was wondering if I should use a preventative or not lol.
Want to see some mites in action. This was shot by Barry. Mite movie. This is after he treated the plants with ??? A non miticide ?? It will give you an idea of what you are dealing with. Remember 2 mites can make more than a hundred in a month and a hundred make millions real quick.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/brug/msg011247304292.html?4
I wonder what pesticide he used. It didn't do much good. I hope Thursday comes real soon. I have to get out to the greenhouse with the Avid.
I was glad to find out that there are high-test miticides like Avid and Forbids (and I did take in the warnings about killing all mites so they don't develop resistance.) But I can't find any place to buy them on the internet. My local garden centers don't carry them. Can someone point me to a place to get one or the other?
TIA
LAS
I haven't purchased from this seller, but Gordon has. He positive things to say about them.
http://www.rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page9.html
http://www.growersupply.com/av8ozmi.html
Thanks, Bettydee,
Now I need to ask what I need to do to "spray to kill," other than spraying again within 3 or 4 days.
tia
las
Do you have broadmites or spidermites?
In either case, remove as many of the leaves as possible leaving only the small ones at the tip. This insures that the spray hits all surfaces of the plant. Bag all the removed leaves. Clean up any other fallen leaves where mites might be hiding. I believe the recommended re-spray is 7 days after the initial date. Follow directions on the container.
I know removing all the leaves sounds rather drastic, but if you fertilize a few days after you've sprayed, the plants should bounce back. Keeping your Brugs fertilized and watered helps to keep them healthy.
Well, I'm ready to do the "broadmite shuffle", too, Veronica- and I just want the one dance- gonna shuffle them right out the door and out of brugs, so thanks for the reminder to remove all the leaves before I start! Gonna look funny, a stick forest, but they grow back before you know it. I have Forbid and AVID, so may hit them with both, about a week apart! It does not help that there's not much this year. I detest broadmites!
They are definitely harder to get rid of than spidermites.
I have never removed any leaves before I spray for mites. Never thought of it I guess. I have used Forbid and avid for several years. I prefer the forbid, works fast, and eliminates those nasty critters very quickly. It is a systemic and kills mites in all stages. Usually no second application is required.
I think it is time to go to mamajack's and see if we can get a Forbid co-op going. I compost like crazy and for the last few years, have not fertilized, soil is rich enough and I have not had any bug problem. This year is different, cold wet Winter, no Spring, hot dry Summer, until today, getting rain. This year we have had more bug problems than in years past and treatment seems to not work as well. We just gave up on squash bug. Heading to mamas.
