Are Plastic Containers Inherently Bad?

I have some granite-colored large sturdy containers that I bought some years ago at Home Depot. First I tried Moonbeam Coreopsis in them. They died. Then I tried peonies. While they WEREN'T coming back, I bought a large matching round one and put a The Fairy polyanthus rose in it. She lasted for two years but the 2006-7 winter did her in.

I now know the peonies weren't meant for containers and that was a bad idea all around. But what was up with the Coreopsis? A sliver of the self-same plant escaped and almost took over the entire lawn! And the fairy rose? That's a miniature. It should have been OK in a container.

Am I just TOO CHEAP? Am I killing plants by trying to grow long-lived perennials in cheap plastic pots? Maybe if I drill holes in the side or more holes in the bottom - or just say "screw it" and use them for annuals. It just dawned on me this week that I can't keep anything alive in there for longer than one season. WHAT IS UP?

Please share similar - or dissimilar - experiences. Thanks. I used to hang out on this forum ALL the time. xxx, Carrie

It's not the pots, though containers made of gas permeable materials like terra cotta, wood pulp, or similar, are easier on plants, if not the grower. They allow better gas exchange in the rhizosphere, and plants grown in these containers need more frequent watering. That they DO need more frequent watering is sign that the soil is more frequently returning to that condition that is most conducive to best root vitality - damp soil with maximum air content.

ANYTIME roots are deprived of O2 for more than a few hours, roots start to die. First, the finest roots that are most responsible for water and nutrient uptake succumb to anaerobic, saturated conditions. If the soil remains saturated, increasingly larger roots begin to die & serious rot sets in and spreads. When the soil eventually returns to a condition where it holds a favorable volume of air, the plant STILL has to expend energy it could have used to grow leaves, extend branches, or grow flowers/fruits to regenerate the dead roots. This seesaw effect creates a serious energy drain on all plants grown in soils that retain a saturated layer of soil at the container bottom for more than a few hours, and it matters not if they're annual or perennial plantings.

Unless you're using a grossly inappropriate fertilizer supplementation program, you probably need to take a very close look at what you're using for soil. The MOST important part of ANY container planting is the soil. It is the foundation that all are built on, and a poor foundation will virtually guarantee problems and/or unsatisfactory results.

I am completely serious when I say that a novice container gardener, provided with a durable, free-draining soil that is appropriate for the plant material, will be able to grow plants with usually MUCH better results than most of the gardeners with years of experience who frequent these forums and are using soils heavily based on peat. I know the soil makes THAT much difference because I've seen the transformation over and over again. ;o)

Al

I have grown tons of things in plastic pots, so it's definitely not the pot itself that's the problem. As Al said, terra cotta is probably better, but tons of people grow things in plastic pots so it definitely can be done. You mentioned that the rose died over the winter--that could be a cold issue which you might have run into regardless of the container. Growing things in containers instead of in the ground typically knocks at least a zone off of their hardiness, and if you had a bit colder than normal weather that winter, or if the soil in the container froze at some point during the winter that could be why it died. Same goes for the coreopsis if it never came back after the winter, but if it was a warmer time of year that it died then my guess would be a watering problem (either too much or too little).

That freaking coreopsis - well, let's just say, it wasn't the cold that did it in. But Al, I had a hunch someone (and I thought it might be you) was gonna mention the non-permeability of plastic. Of course, ecrane, in MY climate, terra cotta doesn't usually make it through the winter intact, although I'm noticing a trend between filled-with-dirt pots surviving where empty pots fill with water, freeze, and break, which i haven't completely thought through.

Al, I've read your extremely long and extremely informative threads on soil and fertilizer in containers - I can't recall what I was using, but I'm pretty sure i just dumped it out of the bag and into the pot. I'm not even sure I knew I was supposed to use fertilizer, or that the soil would get used up or compacted or any of that. As Oscar Wilde said, "ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit. Touch it, and the bloom is gone." At least that's approximately what he said.

Thanks for the feedback. x, C

The other possibility worth mentioning is the size of the pot relative to the size of the plants. This definitely could have been an issue with the Coreopsis, possibly also with the rose depending on how big it was. When you have a small plant in a big pot, it doesn't have enough roots to effectively take up all the water that the potting mix in the pot is holding, so this means that the roots can be sitting in water for a lot longer than is good for them. It's important to have a pot that is appropriate to the size of the plant, otherwise you make it much easier to accidentally overwater. If you're using some of Al's recipes that create much better drainage this would probably not be as big of an issue, but with standard out of the bag potting mix it is definitely a concern.

That was years before I heard of Al's mix, and even before I heard of DG. I have yet to locate the ingredients for the mix - I think we are too urban for some of the stranger (to me) things on the list. This is the season (up here) to mull over past mistakes and resolve to try something different next time. Thanks for the suggestions - I'm not home right now, but if it still above freezing when I get home - well there are a LOT of things to do before it starts being winter again. The first half of winter went with the solstice and not the calendar this year. Or it could be the first third, or the first quarter,,,, x, C

I am just discovering al's mix but the ingredients I found in a day in my local area:
Assuming you want both the recipes he gave for indoor and outdoor here are a just a few clues for finding:
Pine Bark fine can be found sold as soil conditioners (I was shocked when the lady at the nursery told me this....I opened the big sack and she was right)
She sold me compressed Canadian Peat in giant sizes
She had the big big bags of perlite
She offered to order the Turface
I found the chicken or turkey grit at the local feed store
Gypsum is easy to find
And.......the same nursery lady told me she would order the micro-nutrient powder.
I just need to find a good 3-1-2 CRF

This is new to me but I am excited to mixing both batches and do a little experimenting myself. Al has been so patient with some of us (LOL)

We don't have local feed stores here - it's a city; a feed store would be a grocery store! (Is that at all funny? I'm trying really hard!) I was going to try a pet store for the chicken grit. But that's great news about the 'soil conditioners' tip,,, thanks. The pine bark fines had me so stumped I was stuck there.
x, C

I didn't find out myself. Cicada dmailed me to tell me she had read an article about the soil conditioners being composed of fine bark and I was shocked! Good luck
I use the plastic pots all the time. It is not because I like them but I am too old for clay pots anymore to move around by myself.

I'm in a wheelchair and DH has a seriously bad back - even a plastic pot full of dirt needs to be positioned carefully because monivg it might not be plausible! xx, Carrie

I am sorry as it is a bummer to have a bad back. I have 3 discs in my back not worth a hoot except to hurt and 2 bad discs in my neck. Getting older takes courage but it is certainly better than the alternative (LOL)

I've been using cheap plastic pots for years. This is what I would suggest: I think your pot is about 14". I would put at least six 1/2" drain holes. Put window screen or landscape fabric @ the bottom. Use new container potting soil each spring. Use a good slow release fertilizer, such as Smart Cote for Hanging baskets. Water it if the top inch is dry. May I suggest Wave Petunias. They will hang over nicely. Do you have it located in full sun or in more shade? Here's a pic of one of my "cheap" plastic containers...started most of the plants from seed.

Here a pic of my petunia tower that I do every year. Made from old plastic pots, ready-rod & nuts, washers and bolts.

Here's a plastic pot that has holes all around for side planting. (Dries out quicker than other pots though)

Here's one with Tidal Wave Petunias

Another option is buy a 12" planted basket & repot into your container (at least one size bigger) and don't forget the slow release fertilizer. It's not cheating. Do one every year. For the size of the plants & assortment, you probably will not be able to do it any cheaper. Here's 2007 Cheat Pot.

Pretty pretty........Happy New Year!

Carrie - I am 1 zone up from you. We don't have to contend with freezing, but excessive water from rain is an issue.
I solved the problem 2 ways:
1. drilled more holes for those things that prefer better drainage & I don't water as often as most drier climate
2. Plant things that like a moister medium

I have grown Coreopsis in containers too, but in my opinion, they do better in the ground, at least here.

Tapla (Al) just told us on the indoor gardening 'soil discussion' thread to put strings in the holes of the pots and baskets and watch the water logged plants breathe again.
****He told me I only need a few inches.......not these long ones to accomplish the same thing.

In the last two days I have emptied this container twice with the water dripping from the hoya above that i wicked with poly string.

I am going to do it to all my baskets and containers.

I did the wicking thing with my lily bulbs this fall. I'll see how it goes in the spring. I hope none of them rot this winter. I just heard an interesting suggestion on the lily forum. Somebody there said a friend of theirs didn't water in the lilies when they were planted in the fall and they seemed to do just fine in the spring, avoiding rotting.

A word about plastic pots. In the colder zones they don't seem to provide as much protection against the freeze/thaw cycle if you want to plant perennials, so I've always used pots that have some insulating properties. Apart from the fact that they never wear out I think it helps to use a sturdier pot for perennials, especially since they'll be in them for much longer than annuals.

I've had peonies and roses in my zone, but I've used Wilt-Pruf on the rose in the winter to protect from the high winds we get here. And I put bubble wrap around the peony for the winter which was planted in a large black nursery pot surrounded by a wood container. They both died from drought the summer I was sick, otherwise I've no doubt that they'd be with me now.

BTW, I bought my peony in Canada, it was a Paul Wild.

This message was edited Dec 31, 2007 11:06 PM

Here's the rose which grew for two years and then died when I got sick from lack of watering. It was a beauty, Social Climber. It was in its second year on the balcony.

This message was edited Dec 31, 2007 11:23 PM

LOL Rev, it sounds like you got sick from lack of watering! Just got back from Out of Town - give me a while to digest all you've said... x, Carrie

Carrie, I did get sick from lack of watering! LOL Dehydration plus a host of other problems. But drought was definitely one of them :-) And the flowers suffered drought too...

LOL I've only been clinically dehydrated once - every other time with myself OR the kids I knew what to look for and what to do about it proactively. Of course, it's the same as with plants, droopy petals, soil/tongue dry to the touch, etc. etc. One time I was REALLY sick, inpatient for 6 weeks then rehab then home and while I was in the hospital my order from Bluestone had arrived but nobody even noticed that a package was here, let alone put it outside or water it, BUMMER. (Understandably everyone was upset that I was dying.)
x, C

We are certainly glad you didn't!!!!!!

Me too! My family lets me know every day how much I am loved,,,,, My DH was in Viet Nam and got shot at in plane crashes etc etc - he has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder about me almost dying. xx, Carrie

Carrie,
I can understand your husband's post traumatic stress disorder! I so wish we could provide our soldiers after war with as much health care as our nation's leaders get if they need health care.

My heart goes out to both of you.
gail

Right there with you gail. Christmas carols make me cry this year. Peace on earth? What century? Wrong site - thanks for the container tips! x, Carrie

There are many of us who wish for peace on earth!

I almost died too. Several hospital stays, family worried sick, me too sick to worry. Long recovery. I'm SO glad to still be here.

And now, back to plastic pots! I stopped using them when the cheap ones started cracking over winter. I still use a few clay pots, but mostly foam and ceramic.

Foam are nice b/c they are so light-weight, even full. x, C

Joanna, your wave petunias are fabulous. I'm new so I'll ask, when do you purchase and plant them. So pretty.

Debbie

Debbie,

I started the wave petunias indoors, under lights in Mid March. Mid April, I moved them to an outdoor greenhouse (actually converted the kid's swing set into a greenhouse for a month) & they stayed there until about Mother's Day. Then into pots & flowerbeds.

With the plastic. Heated it with a propane tent heater.

Another of the greenhouse. Landscape ties hold the plastic down

That swingset idea is great:) We gardeners will turn anything that will support visqueen into a green house. But it is a great structure idea. Thanks for the info. I will definantly have some wave petunias this year, because of your beautiful photos. Thankyou so much.

Debbie

We have an olde swing set that I've had my eye on for years - as a trellis, as a tent/cold frame, as anything other than the eyesore that it is now. Got to convince DH that it's a good idea,,,,,,, x, Carrie

I have so many ideas floating around my head for spring. I just wish it would get here sooner. :)

Debbie

No, no, too much to do, too many children to get into too many colleges and/or secondary schools, too many scholarships to apply for, too many financial aid forms to fill out, too much to do, too much to do,,,,,,,,,,, xxxx, Carrie