I came here to ask a specific question, but of course I had to first browse through all the previous threads. *drool* I want that. And that. Oh yeah, and I want that too.
OK, back to the question at hand. This last year I've been dabbling with propagation and have had moderate success with most things......except begonias. I've tried cains, I've tried rexes, and I've tried tuberous begonias. I've tried tip cuttings, stem cuttings, leaf cuttings and tuber divisions. I've tried rooting them in water, in perlite, and in soiless mix, I've tried tenting them and I've tried NOT tenting them. Argh!!
I've Googled 'till my lil fingers can type no more and now it's time to ask the experts. You all obviously raise beautiful begonias, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong? What is your favorite method of propagation? I would love to hear what works for ANY of you.
Thanks and Happy Holidays!
La
Propagation Methods
i am going to wait for the pros but I will tell you it is not hard if you have a good humidity dome (like a Bio Dome)
I start canes in water.
The rest I start in a real light soil-less mix with equal part perlite and 1/2 part vermiculite.
Let me go take some pics of some I am propagating now.
And then I will let the people who really know come around and speak.
**this is what I use for a humidity dome
I started them out in smaller containers (at least some of them)
You can even take a little solo cup using the same mix and put her under a dome of some kind. This is begonia 'Bonita Shea'
These are begonia venosas started from seed. I just used a little solo cup with the same mix and scattered seeds in the cup, put them under a dome. Here I have already separated the babies into their own solo cup. Now it is time to move them up in size of pots.
Good luck and I know that hcmdole and others will help you more
Hi Gail, thank you so much for responding. I am currently using one of those clear zippered bags in which they package bedding, curtains, etc, and it has worked fairly well for my coleus and more viney-type plants. I even had some success with some semi-hard cuttings (forsythia) and several large rubber tree cuttings, but these begonias are really testing my perseverance. Little do they know how stubborn I can be!
Your set-up looks like it's working well for you. Can you tell me what type of cuttings you're starting with? It kind of looks like tip cuttings maybe? Have you had any luck with leaf cuttings? With the winter leaf drop I've had all kinds of leaves to use for my mad scientist experiments, but they are being just as stubborn as I with their lack of cooperation!
The rex leaves seem to do well with the soil-less mix I was talking about (pro-mix or any soil -less mix with another equal part of perlite and then only 1/2 part vermiculite)
Sometimes it is a soft tip cutting or whatever I have.
Right now I am experimenting with a big leaf of Cathedral in water and it has roots! I did something stupid though. The stem is waaay too long. Now I am going to get a leaf with only a 2" petiole.
If you can succeed with the plants you mentioned, begonias ought to be a breeze for you. I have a really hard time with semi hard cuttings. I keep trying to root the tropical plant Jatropha and only once did I succeed and that was in the summer time with a heating mat.
If I didn't mention it, I do use gro lights for rooting begonias (except for canes).
Leaf cuttings are really easy and so are seeds. I want to join the Begonia Society just to be able to order seeds from them. That Bonita Shea in the solo cup was nothing but a leaf with only a 1/2" petiole on it . It rooted in a hurry. Do you have some gro lights somewhere in the house? I wouldn't know how to root without full spectrum gro lights that I buy at Walmart.
I just use shop lights Gail. My "propagation center" does not sit directly under them (that area is overflowing with actual plants....I need more room!) but right to the side. I do have bottom heat under the tray which is filled with 1/2 soiless mix and 1/2 perlite. It sounds like my set-up is very similar to yours. I wonder if I don't have my moister adjusted just right. Maybe I should try water again. Ugh. LOL.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you night a lot of gro light at least 12 hours a day for propagating begonias. let's see if someone else pops up today.
Hi La,
Gessie has given some very good pointers. The biggest thing I can think of that is absolutely critical is humidity. Canes are very easy - usually in water or soil as long as they have 3 nodes (I think I read that somewhere) but you might be able to get by with less. Rhizomatous (including rex) can be started by leaf or stem (try stems to begin with since they seem so much easier than leaf cuttings). Always use a healthy, younger leaf for propagation (although older leaves will do). Some seasons are better than others for prop'ing. I read somewhere that it is better to prop when the plant is actively growing and after blooming (something to do with hormones?)
Some rhizomatous begonias are so easy that you can actually start them in pure gravel. Don't you wish they were all this easy? The two easiest ones I can think of are 'Joe Hayden' and 'River Nile'. Perlite and sand make good mediums to start leaves in but the key is to never have soaking wet nor let dry out (another reason for a humidity dome or cover). When you move to peat based medium, things start getting iffy since they tend to stay wet (but you can still start in this medium if you are very careful in watering). I have been using Nature's Helper recently with some luck (lots of shredded bark meant to help amend poor soil such as clay). Last year I rooted hundreds of cuttings using plain water but the key here was to keep each cup covered (this helped in keeping the water from souring) but after they rooted I still had to pot them up.
My advice is to keep cuttings covered (whether it is a fish tank or a plastic bag), be careful in watering (too much is just as bad as too little), and experiment, experiment, experiment. Lights and heat are beneficial (summer and fall might be the best times to prop since warmth and light are plentiful and free).
Here is a Joe Hayden leaf in pea gravel showing how easy it is to start.
Thanks for the education! I just learned so much. You are so right about a peat based medium. Once they are moist and I put the top on, they don't get watered! I didn't even know I had a choice about the medium.
Thanks for the other options. i also didn't know about covering the canes in water!
Another great tutorial, thank you hcmcdole! (May I call you Butch? I've read enough of your posts and admired so many of your pictures I feel like I know you, LOL) I think the first thing I need to do is change my medium because you're right, I do have trouble monitoring the moisture. Although I find it puzzling that you can root in a domed container of water, yet you have to be careful of too much moisture in a domed rooting tray. I know you're exactly right though because I've lost so many to rot. Still it puzzles me.
Since you are both being so very patient and helpful I will presume upon you to ask yet another question, and that would be about the leaf stem. (Sorry, I'm just starting to pick up the botanical names....to me they're still "stems.") How much stem do I want to keep attached when attempting a leaf cutting? Do I take it from where it seperates from the main stem? (Oh jeeze I'm starting to confuse myself here. I really do need to learn what the plant parts are called!) I'm wondering if I'm taking too much?.....to little? My cains have dropped a fair amout of leaves since bringing them in for the winter and I have tried to prop those in both water and in the tray. Is this possible or do cains only root from tip cuttings? With the rexes I have mostly tried cutting across the vein as I've seen in most of my Google searches, but they always end up rotting....again I assume to much moisture is the culprit there.
I'm so glad I came out of lurkdone and asked. I have been experimenting like a mad woman but have really started getting frustrated by all my failures.
Thanks again,
La
Yes, you may call me Butch. I agree it is puzzling on why one method works so well for some people and fails for others and vice versa. The problem with some of the "magic" of rooting leaves or stems are things we have to take for granted since there are microscopic changes taking place that we would need microscopes to see and knowledge of why (botanists put years of work into the why so I don't question those areas - hormones, pathogens, etc.). Anyway we know there are millions of germs in the air and other surfaces (again we have to rely on what the experts tell us). A cut is an invitation to infection just like a cut to our skin. I believe that covering a glass of water just pulled from the faucet (somewhat sterilized since we drink it right from the tap, right?) keeps most germs out (provided the cup is clean). Now if the cutting is somewhat healthy, then germs have less of a chance to get started. I have had cuttings in water for weeks and perhaps 2 to 3 months under cover with no harm. If I let a glass uncovered it may turn sour in a couple of days and a lot of that depends on the plant cutting. I picked up this method from one of our local club members - she does almost all her cuttings this way.
A lot of folks recommend sterilizing medium as well (microwave or bake in the oven) but I'm not much for that. I like to play with different methods since I don't grow to sell so if I lose all my cuttings, then I've learned a lesson. I also picked up the sand method from an older gent in Columbus, GA. He stuck all his cane cuttings in a sand bed on the floor of his small greenhouse with nearly 100% success. He used river sand so I use builder's sand from the big stores (fairly coarse). I have rooted leaves in this as well but it tends to dry out very fast if you don't keep an eye on it.
If you are a serious grower and want to prop thousands of plants then tissue culture may be the best solution if you are dedicated and have lots of patience. We saw a presentation at the 2006 ABS convention by somebody from Logee's (I think it was one of the grandsons). He showed how they do tissue culture there on the Iron Cross begonia (B. masoniana). They cut the leaves to small pieces, which go through a bleach bath, an alcohol bath, trimmed again to remove all damaged edges, rinsed in distilled water, and put into sterilized vials with agar in them. Once true leaves develop, they can remove those leaves and start new plants with these, over and over. The whole process is done in a sterile lab with an airflow through a HEPA filter (I probably have some of the facts wrong) blowing across the work (work is always done towards the flow).
Anyway, I've noticed that humidity really helps my chances of rooting leaves. I bought a high top propagator years ago from Park Seed and put several leaves in and had great success. But that is too expensive to do lots of cuttings. Here is a cheap alternative - a baking pan (lasagna, cake, etc) with a clear lid.
Here are some benches at PHOE from last year (early March). It was very humid in these rooms which made me almost nauseous.
great info.........Butch........but what is PHOE?
Palm Hammock Orchid Estate. This is where B. 'PHOE's Cleo' and the Deco series originated.
Here is PHOE's Cleo a couple of days ago.
This is all most excellent information. I cannot thank you enough for your kindness in walking me through this. It looks like it's back to the drawing board for me but I guess that's about all the long winter months are good for, eh? I'm sure I'll be back, if for no reason other than to share the triumph of my first success!
Thanks, hcmcdole.
I am familiar with the hybridizers of African Violets but not begonias.
Would you please jump over to the thread about my stem on my begonia foliosa? Thank you!
Butch is right about how expensive high top propatators are. In my company we regularly have lunches provided for meetings and such and I've collected the containers the sandwiches come in and used those for propagation. They are like the plastic containers you get cakes in from grocery stores. They work very well and are free :)