We have homesteading in our blood but haven't made the opportunity to take the plunge. This is our vision... 20+++ acres in a mostly warm climate with wooded and "not flat" terraine (i.e., Arkansas, Southern Missouri, East Oklahoma, East or West Tennessee...or other like areas) -- I love the warm climate and hate the cold, my dh would prefer a little cooler but will tolerate the heat if not too extreme. We'd love to start with some vacant land and build a cabin for a permanent homestead. We're more "red state" than "blue state". We have young children, and I'm a little concerned about "the big bad wolf" or "poisonous" things. We've been a little spoiled with living in Illinois where there are few dangerous "wild things" but can learn to adapt. Can you all give me some feedback on the where and what to look for?
Thx
Your opinion on our location...
angiemar, can you elaborate on what you mean by "warm climate" and how hot would be considered too extreme for heat?
Our kids are older, the "baby" turning 17 in December, and we are in the very beginning stages of "doing it in the desert." That's probably both hotter and colder than you are thinking of and we are not, at this age, aspiring for the more deep self-sufficiency that you may be dreaming of, but I just thought I'd toss in some encouragement from Out West.
Central TN is lovely - we had 5 acres East and South of Nashville for several years - does get down to freezing there, from time to time, and once in 10 years you'll get a real White Christmas - but couldn't find good jobs, so never actually moved out there. I am thinking that, with small children, someone will need to work "away" while the infrastructure gets paid for - i.e. land, well(s), major structures. And for health insurance. Also, having just moved from one state to another a few years ago, you might want to consider the expense of moving that far. Surely we had more "stuff" than the average person as I am a consumate pack rat, but it still costs gasoline and such to move "away." Are there opportunities you might explore in Illinois? And, if you've never lived in The South, there are some considerations - heat and humidity being one, and big, giant (although harmless) bugs... but, of course, I am still plotting my escape back to The South... so, more than the State you live in, I think there are also some other things to think about with land choises.
Even though we moved to the desert, there are some considerations that may apply to you, too. The main one being water. We choose a place with an aquifer feed by both a lake and a major river branch. So even in the middle of summer when the temps are running in the tripple digit and the lake is "down 20 feet", our 200 ft ($9000) well is still running at top speed. This allows us the luxery of planting trees in the desert and having a little "oasis" area where we grow veggies and some rather non-water-wise plants. It would be both impossible and irresponsible to try and do this for the whole 5 acres here in the desert, I think - but in a different area, it might be just the thing to make it all green.
Another consideration, when looking at septic tanks, is ground perculation - will the ground absorb and filter your waste water in a sanitary way? You can reuse a lot of your water (we use bath water on some non-edible trees), but there is a certain amount that will go "down the drain." On the other hand, if you are not going to use a septic, how are you going to protect your water supply from contamination with human by-products? It can be done, but needs to be thought of in advance.
Will you need alternative energy for electricity? Some people can live without it. Me, I am tied to my computer for work and play and basic communications. We choose where we are because we get 350 or more days of unobstructed sunshine and eventually hope to install a grid-tied solar electric system (we are currently 100% ON grid). We also get pretty steady convective winds all summer long (resulting from the sun beating down on the desert sand and heating the air), and are thinking of a wind based well pumping backup (our electric outages are more likely to happen in summer than winter). I dream of a "farm pond" and an old fashioned windmill to airate the water.
Soil fetility is another consideration. We have sand 10 feet down. All organic matter for the last few years has been laboriously trucked in in the back of my or my husband's pickup truck. I have made friends with a neighbor with horses - I want her equine manure! The first year we gardened here, we were not at all organic, although I did not use pesticides. Last year we were semi-organic. We are moving more and more organic each year. I am going to try to be 75-80% organic this year and 100% organic in a year after that. During the summer, we got about 25% of our veggies from our garden, 25% from local famer's markets and 50% from the grocery store (meaning, around here, trucked in from California's Central Valley). The desert is not exactly veggie friendly, but I'm hoping to reduce the "grocery store" side by another 10% this year as I am learning a few more tricks to outwit Mother Nature. (The flip side, being, there really isn't a problem with "fungal" diseases here, like in places where it rains enough to not need irrigation).
Other considerations are zoning restrictions. Where we are, you MUST have a septic, the size of the septic is regulated by the number of bedrooms and square footage of the home, and it must be a certain distance from the home. We are nominally "in town", being 8 miles from the 4 way stop and only 500 or 600 feet off of a paved road , so they do actually make us comply... people a little further out of town and several miles off of the pavement aren't as enforced...
Speaking of roads, will your road be passable in the winter or "wet season" - I remember driving on slick red Georgia clay in my youth - the smell of "Georgia Rain" is a wonderful memory - the number of times someone with a "bigger than mine" 4wd truck had to pull me out of the ditch is not so wonderful. We had to "rock in" our driveway here in NV as the whole 5 acres is sand - you have to do similar things where it rains a lot as it could be a swamp a month or so out of the year. "Driveway rock" cost several hundred dollars a ton delivered - you'd be amazed how little a pile a few tons of rock is. The further from a major business area you are, the more it costs. We paid $200/load extra because we are beyond the "40 miles from Reno" limit - and pretty much had to go with them because most of the places didn't even want to come out to where we are.
We have concreted a 3 foot perimeter around the house due to scorpions. It took us a year to figure out how to co-habitate with them. They seem to stay outside much better now that we have the perimeter - they'll cross open expanses of sand, but apparently don't like open concrete. (exit dreams of morning glories surrounding my windows) Keeping the plants away from the house like that also has lessoned the other creepy crawlies in the house. You will need to figure out how you will do this if there are buggy things you want kept out of the house. I don't much mind the bugs that get in the house (and they do), but I cannot live with black widdows and scorpions, even though they are not as poisonous as we are lead to believe or fear.
We have laws here that say if you shoot an intruder on your property, you are imune to law suites that the intruder and/or their family may wage against you. Not all states have laws like this. Regardless of your stand on gun issues, you may want to consider how your potential state views this issue. If you live in bear country, you may wish to be able to carry firearms (although personally, I am more concerned about the 2 legged creatures). If you do wish to use firearms, there are ways to have them at home without endangering your children - the local sherrif's dept can point you in the direction of good training. Not trying to be political here - just my opinion that if you live "way off the beaten path," you may wish to consider the option of learning to use one. Firearms have been a tool of rural living for a long time, both for defence and for sustanance.
Ok, sorry to be so long winded. I envy your youth and energy! Do not feel too overwhelmed - others have done it and you can, too! Good luck and many blessings on your journey!
there are many advantages to southern mo. mo has every tax but mostly on the cheaper side. not as high as il. my grandparents had a farm north of springfield about 35 mi. the best water you ever tasted. my granma would take us swimming every summer in the spring-fed rivers than ran through the property. the summers can get humid. the winters do get cold. definitely 4-seasons. numerous lakes nearby. many people use wood stoves. i would also say that mo probably has the cheapest land. tn doesn't have a state income tax, but i think they are trying to change that. you would probably be looking at northern ar and not flat southern ar. hot springs and bentonville might be pretty expensive.
eastern ok, little flat. i think overall and for the money mo would be a hard choice to beat for the areas you listed. you can search the internet for real estate listings and compare.
Thanks for all the feedback. In answer to your question garden_mermaid, I can tolerate near triple digits depending on the humidity. It does get pretty humid here in IL with the heat but I'm usually not complaining unless it is very humid and upper 90s. My DH would like it a little cooler but says the climate is less of an issue. He's more concerned about getting a lot of good land for cheap. Good land meaning lots of trees, decent soil and water, and few restrictions. I like your ideas kmom246 and Len123. We have seen some interesting listings in southern Missouri, northern Arkansas, and in Tennesee. There was even one just across the border of east Oklahoma. One question that I've had on a lot of them is access issues. I'll have to do some more research on easements, landlocks, and such. kmom246, thanks for all the info. Those are all good things to put on my list to consider. Your experience is very inspiring.
In addition to checking the access issues, I'd double check the water access rights as well. Make sure you can get water at your new place. We're seeing "investors" buying up rural/ag property solely for the water rights, which they sell, or hold to sell, and then try to resell the land without them. This seems to be one of the lastest "hot trends".
garden mermaid that reminds me of the time i visited some folks in pueblo, co. Their big topic of conversation was about water rights and how many sources of water they could get from. That probably explained why they had a rectangle of grass around their house.
I found it quite amusing as my dad wouldn't even fertilize his grass for fear he would have to mow it more than twice a week. so far that's not been much of an issue in these parts.
it is my understanding that land cannot be sold without access. and if someone did sell you land without access i doubt if it would be too hard to get easements. I've certainly never heard of anything in the news where someone bought land and couldn't get there! lol! so be extremely cautious if someone tries to get you to invest in water rights in mo.
i'm sure you would lose your investment, or have to wait a few lifetimes at least just to break even! lol. i'm afraid that is one trend that will have to stay in CA.
Water rights are a hot topic in Nevada, too :-)
It sure is frustrating to see how people manipulate others' basic needs for their own gain. I'll add water rights to my checklist. Thanks!
You might throw Kentucky in for consideration, too. The guy we bought our land from had some acreages for as little as $500 an acre...hills, trees, etc. Weather isn't too bad here in South Central Ky. First year here 6 years ago, it snowed 6" for Christmas. But we have a lot of 50 and 60 degree winter temps,too. Summer isn't too bad, either temp-wise or humidity-wise. Kmom's info about everything pertains here too. Our septic system installed was $3500 for a one bedroom home, water lines and meter a $1000, another $1000 for electricity and $800 for gravel the first go around. Another $1000 on gravel this past summer. Here you can't get electricity until you get water, which you can't get until you get a septic system. But we wouldn't trade our place for the world!
Happy hunting! Robin
Kentucky is beautiful. I could live in Ky.
You'd have to have a horse. It's required. LOL ( We have 11 )
Horses are definately on our agenda...just have to make sure we'll be able to stay home for good before we buy any.
Cajun, are yours riding horses or draft horses or a combo of both?
You caught me snoozing for a few days. I'll have to do some checking on Kentucky. They might not let me in though as I'm sure horses would be a long time down the road. Although my daughter has some My Little Ponies. Does that count?
Sure...work your way up...my little ponies, rabbits, chickens, goats, etc. :)
Start with My Little Ponies, move on to Barbie horse then on to Breyers. You get the picture. LOL
Here is our herd break down. Or is that broken down herd? LOL
1. Glory is a black TWH filly. Turned 3 the end of June. We show her.
2. Shaq is a black gaited gelding. Sold to us as a TWH but I believe he is a Kentucky
Mountain Pleasure. He is 8ish and as fine a riding horse as a body could ever hope
to straddle. He was very abused by his former owner so he has issues. I am the
only person that rides him.
3. Gypsy is a blue roan paint filly. 3 yo. She is Percheron / TWH cross. We ride her. She
isn't gaited but she is very gentle so she is the got to horse for new riders or folks
needing a bit of confidence. She is a sweet heart.
4. Godiva is a chocolate TWH mare. She is 14 and a good, steady ride. We show her
a bit but she prefers the trails.
5. Buddy is a black TWH gelding. 3 yo. He is a fantastic ride. A bit jumpy still and not
as trusting as I would like yet, but he was a victim of abuse. He is coming along well.
6. Goldy is a Haflinger. 4yo. We ride her. She is not gaited but, like Gypsy, she is
sweet and gentle. We plan to train her to pull a cart. I would love to have a half scale
buckboard for her.
7. Ginger is a sorrel Appendix QH / Saddlebred cross. She is 30ish and came to us
to retire. She was badly used and has old injuries and that will need daily care for
the rest of her life. She is really sweet and loves to be with people. Go figure.
8. Fire Fly is a strawberry roan TWH / RMH cross. She is a 10 yo. A good riding horse
but an alpha mare who has to be housed alone. She is pushy and will take
advantage so she is not a horse for a soft owner. She likes affection but refuses to
appreciate it. Much like a cat. LOL
9. Cream is a cremello mare standardbred / TWH cross. 7yo. She is a racking horse but
we haven't had her long or ridden her much as she was very underweight from not
being fed by her previous owner. She is gaining weight nicely so come spring we will
see what she has. She is good natured and easy to handle.
10. Coffee is a dark dun mare. 5 yo and green broke. She was Cream's pasture mate
and was in the worst shape of the two. She is putting on weight nicely also and
should make a fine racking mare. She is a standardbred / KMP.
11. Tony Pony is a sorrel paint miniature stallion. He is a 10 yo. We are working on
a health problem he had when he came to us so he can not be ridden at the moment.
We hope to have him sound for the spring show season. His mane is below his
shoulder and his tail drags the ground. He is a viril little "man" but easily managed.
Here is a pic of our DGS, Knock, on Glory at a show.
Wow Cajun! Sounds like you are involved in horse rescue.
How blessed they are to have you to take care of them.
:)
At times it feels like we are running a rescue. But we love them all. They are all different and have their own little ways about them. Have to each be handled as individuals but that keeps it interesting and keeps me on my toes. LOL
This pic is my DGS #2. His name is Rayden but I call him Radar. He lives in La so we don't get to see him much. They came up for Thanksgiving and we had a great time. The pony is Goldy, the Haflinger.
OK Cajin, definately need to get together if and when we get back to KY. Got to learn more about what you're doing! Robin
Right now I am running myself into the ground trying to get all the horses moved from the farm into the new barn. The barn has been laying dormant for about 7 years and used for a storage building. It needs a lot of work so we are going stall by stall. It is also hard to get dry sawdust right now as it has been raining here for the last 2 weeks. We have been able to move 4 horses but still have 7 at the farm. When you factor in the cows tearing down the fences at the farm every day and us having to repair them every evening and get horses back where they belong, it has become very hard. The horse trailer was inaccessable today because of the mud so that did not help matters. Please say a prayer for us.
This pic is the Shaq monster. He has a sad history but he is overcoming it and doing well. Such a good boy.
So, Cajin....if you aren't running a "Horse Resue" operation, how/why did you acquire so many horses in dire need (it sounds) of a loving home?
Soft heart and softer head. LOL I hate to see anything suffer so I take it in.
That's how we've acquired many of our critters.
It warms my heart to know that those horses have a guardian angel.
:D
That's what we want to do eventually, too, but don't have any idea how to get the word out. It's still a little ways off, as we still have to build a shelter for horses and put up fencing (and make sure we're home for good).
Here is a pic of Tony Pony. The farrier trimmed his feet and manipulated his joints. He is moving much better now and his prognosis is promising. He is a cheeky little bugger but we love him just the same. LOL He is a mini.
Dear angiemar10,
How old are you? This can make a difference. I am selling a beautiful 60 acres in north-central AR with access to gravity-flow water written into the deed, a 500 gal. propane tank, wood and gas furnace, lots of great stuff, but it's too up-and-down for me and my achy hips. MO does have income tax - I live in AR and do taxes for a living and MO's income tax ranges from 1.5% - 6% depending on income. Their sales tax is lower than OK, AR, or KS tho and the sales tax on food is really low. If you're interested, this property is listed on FarmandLand.com (search Arkansas, search Searcy county).
angiemar10,
My husband and I love West Kentucky. Not only beautiful but the people are wonderful.
Rose