I have had this plant for several years and I am just now learning how to take care of it and would like to put a name on it. The first picture is with Maggi in front to give you some idea of the size. Thanks.
kenboy
www.vonrussellfarm.com
Help with Alocasia ID
Front.
Back.
Very likely that is either Alocasia odora or Alocasia x calidora. Have you seen it bloom and smelled the inflorescence?
Also, when the inflorescence matures, have you noticed if the spathe reflexes back or stays erect?
Looks like "portadora" to me.
The spathe was erect and I believe it was yellow. I do remember the seeds were orange, but I don't remember what I did with them. I am so organized.
It's definitely not "portadora"; I should know, I developed the Alocasia x portora (the correct name) and this plant does not have the undulated margins, the petioles are not brownish, and the leaves are too wide.
Kenboy, if the spathe was erect and never reflexed back, then it has to be Alocasia odora or my hybrid, the Alocasia x calidora.
Check these links; first one is Alocasia x portora:(aka incorrectly as "portadora"):
http://www.aroidia.com/portora.htm
Alocasia odora:
http://www.aroidia.com/aodora.htm
Alocasia x calidora:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/76290/
Your picture is of a very good specimen; you should add it to Plantfiles.
Sorry LariAnn, novice here. Just keying in what's on my plant's tag bought at a reputable nursery.
It's OK, no offense. There are a lot of well-known "reputable" nurseries out there selling the plants I developed and labeling them with the incorrect name. I emailed many of them; some corrected the name (like Plant Delights) and others ignored my email, choosing to continue with the incorrect name. The worst part is that the plants were put on the market without my knowledge or consent; hence, I receive nothing for all those sales. It started with the TC labs that propagated them; I got one lab to correct the name, but one in CA refused to correct it even after I provided proof of publication of the correct name to them!
LariAnn I am not sure if this is Calidora or Odora. This looks to be the same as what I have been calling Macrorrhiza for years. As we discussed. It is not the same as the macrorrhiza variegated when it reverts to green. This form my father has had now for over 30 years and it seems no one can tell were it is from. It seems to be fairly common up north probably sold by some wholesale bulb companies usually as the upright elephant ear. We had one in a greenhouse get over 12 to 15 feet tall we had to use a chainsaw to cut it down it was so large. It does not seem to produce the small tubers under the soil as much as the reverted green form does and the flowers are different as well.
Here is a photo of the flower off this form.
Brian, when the inflorescence matures completely (male anthesis), does the spathe stay erect or does it reflex back? So far the varieties of A. macrorrhizos I have worked with, and others closely allied with the macrorrhizos, have a spathe that tends to reflex or "flop" away from the spadix at male anthesis. The A. odora group, on the other hand, retains the spathe in an erect posture even up to the point where the spathe dries up. The inflorescences in the macrorrhizos group have a semi-shiny to shiny look overall, while the odora group has a matte look. The odora type have a sweetish odor reminiscent of papaya or some other fruit, while the macrorrhizos types have a pungent, non-fruity odor to them.
You were going to send me one of your plants and when I can observe it closely, I may be able to determine more accurately what it might truly be. It looks very much like a variant of the odora group, though, not the macrorrhizos group, or it could even be an legacy hybrid between the two groups, as the odora inflorescence type seems to be genetically dominant in all of the crosses I've done that involve A. odora or A. gageana.
Have you made similar observations?
This plant was given to me from a person that has had it for over 20 years. The spathe stands erect but has a very unpleasant sent. LariAnn, how about I send you one of it's pups so you can study it closer.
kenboy
www.vonrussellfarm.com
That would be great, kenboy, if you could send me a pup. It sounds like your plant is the same kind as the one Brian has, based on what you've shared about the scent of the inflorescence. Odora inflorescences have a pleasant scent but the macrorrhizos types are like you describe. What has me thinking is the fact that the inflorescence looks like an odora inflorescence, not a macrorrhizos one. Check your d-mail.
OK I found the seeds. Now when should I sow and how long to germinate? Do Alocasias self pollinate?
kenboy
www.vonrussellfarm.com
You found the seeds? Does that mean that you had them dried and stored? If so, they are no longer viable. Alocasia seeds need to be planted very soon after harvesting; I clean them and immediately soak them in distilled water overnight at least before planting. I never let them dry out.
If they are still fresh from the squishy berry, you can wash them and sow them in moist soil immediately; keep them covered in plastic or in some way to prevent them from drying out. They should germinate within two weeks.
If they are dried, then there is no chance of germination?
If they are dried, they are toast. I had some sent to me from China; they still had berry bits on them but they were dry and the same color as yours. No germination. Zip. Zero. Nada. You can sow them if you like, but I've never seen a dried Alocasia seed germinate in over 25 years of work with aroids.
Thanks. I will do better next year. I am making a number of trades and will be sending out a goodly number of boxes soon and will send you a pup.
LariAnn I still have this plant and possibly a few others if your still interested in me sending you a box. I have just been really busy trying to get everything inside before it gets cold here. It's a race against time. At the moment I maybe loseing.
Brian,
I am definitely still interested if you can find the time to send me a box, but I don't want you to jeopardize your plants by taking time to do so. You need to take care of your plants first.
Thanks for the offer; just let me know when you are sending so I can be expecting it.
25 years of work with aroids, Lari Ann??? So, you started when you are like, 2?
Thank You, Carter! Actually, I'm a little older than that. Hint: my son is 14.
LOL..mmm.. not a day older than 16.......mmmm
edited to remove some nonsense I wrote :-)
This message was edited Oct 28, 2007 12:08 PM
Alistair,
For the record, my naming was published in Aroideana, Vol. 6, No. 3, July 1983, The IAS is supposed to be the ICRA for aroids so that is why that publication should verify my claim to the correct name. As far as herbarium specimens is concerned, please provide the reference for that as in my reading of the relevant portion of the ICBN I recall no mention of the need for an herbarium specimen to be deposited (unless my recollection has become foggy!).
There does seem to be some difference of opinion as to how I should designate this plant; some say it should be Alocasia portora, other Alocasia x portora. However, what I do know is I was the first to do the cross and publish it, and that, IMHO, gives my name for it precedence over any other manufactured names that have been placed on it since.
LariAnn
Aroidia Research
This message was edited Oct 27, 2007 7:25 PM
I'll have to check the Code (ICBN) again, and I don't have my set of Aroideana to hand - but apologies if I have shot from the hip : no offense was intended I hasten to add.
I don't think Alocasia portora can possibly be correct though. If the botanical hybrid name is to be used it should include the x.
IAS (as ICRA for Aroids) has no special role in the endorsement of botanical names which come under a separate framework from cultivated plant names, but if Alocasia x portora was validly published in 1983, I stand corrected :-)
I checked the Code on-line: you are absolutely correct!!
Egg on the face LOL
Shouldn't open my mouth about these technical matters without looking things up first!!
As far as I can recollect, and bearing in mind that I did my half a Botany degree in the late 1980s, there are two formulations for a cross or hybrid. Either "Genus species X Genus species" thus giving the full names of the parents OR "Genus × species so your plant would definitely be Alocasia × portora as you published it. The only other possible formulation would be the kind used for complex multi-generational hybrids, in which case it would be Alocasia cv. 'Portora' . Note the differences between the two in terms of capitalisation and also that the "×" is not the lower case letter x, it is the multiplication symbol and really should be pronounced that way, so "cross-portora" NOT "ex-portora".
When I was at Uni, I had a Taxonomy lecturer who was pretty avid about banging this sort of stuff into our heads, so I guess a lot of it has stuck there, even after all these years, LOL. It is unfortunate that "bad" names propagate themselves through the nursery trade, and it is especially rude when someone not only profits from your hard work without your permission but gets it wrong in the process! I would have been spitting chips (there's a good old Aussie expression for you).
I live in the probably somewhat vain hope that the various on-line references we now have access to will help to clean things up a bit name wise, I have found IPNI in particular a great help, and of course the Plant Files here are a fabulous resource, especially in the way that they can be collaboratively corrected and improved over time. TTFN, KK.
Even though this thread has gotten a little off the subject, I am enjoying it very much. I never went much past the eighth grade but still believe a person should try to get it right. You people are inspiring. I just wished we had this kind of knowledge on the Ginger forums. Thanks.
kenboy
www.vonrussellfarm.com
LOL, I was enjoying the thread too. Advanced Aroids.
Very nice looking plant too!
Kenboy, how was your trip to Beaumont? I hope you scored as nicely as I did at the North Texas RU.
I had a wonderful time and came home with a truck load.(really a truck and cab too)
I am going to be in Houston next weekend. The following weekend I am going to the College Station RU.
When you were in Beaumont, you were in my old territory. We still own a house in Vidor, that is 10 min. from Beaumont. It is a much better plant zone than 8. You wouldn't think one zone would make such a difference, but it surely does.
First year here I lost over half of my plants, because I figured just three and a half hours driving distance would cause that much difference in plant care. WRONG!
I am looking forward to trading some plants with you.
Charlene
Lariann the flower spath does not reflex back it stays covered over the spadix and the berries turn a orange color. It has been called Macrorrhiza as far as I can remember. If you are correct then I have been miss IDing them for over 16 years LOL. Your form of odora seems much different in shape and size. I have always thought that the variegated macrorrhiza was something else other than mac or that it was just a odd form much like lutea and the dark stem form. Alistair any certain things to look for to tell them apart??
Brian,
Now, to muddy the waters even more, I have a plant that is allegedly progeny from selfing a specimen of A. x calidora; this plant looks very much like something more akin to A. macrorrhizos, but it just bloomed and the inflorescence looks and smells like those on A. odora! This is becoming more interesting all the time, as I wonder if this observation is evidence that some of these plants we are calling "species" are actually part of a naturally occurring cultivar group. This plant I am referring to here is what I have chosen to call the "Green Giant"; see link below:
http://aroidiaresearch.org/agrngnt.htm
My hypothesis is that my "Green Giant" is a throwback to a much earlier ancestor of both the A. odora, the plant you have, and perhaps several others, including the Indian Odora, Blue Odora, A. cucullata and A. gageana. The Blue Odora, for example, has a much thinner leaf blade than the typical A. odora, and this "Green Giant" also has a thinner leaf blade.
One possible result of hybridization is the emergence of a combination of genes that replicates much earlier stages of the development of what we call a species.
I have a picture of the "Green Giant" inflorescence but I want to see if the spathe reflexes back or remains erect. So far it is staying erect.
Edited on 11/16/07 to add: Two blooms have gone through both female and male anthesis and the spathes on both remained erect, just as the ones on the A. odora do. The 'Green Giant' produces pollen, so it is not sterile. Next step is to attempt selfing it to see what I get as progeny!
This message was edited Nov 16, 2007 9:34 PM
Can I jump in here and ask if you can tell what mine is?
That is what I know of as Alocasia odora; it is just like the one I use for hybridization.
Check my link below for a picture of mine.
LariAnn
http://aroidiaresearch.org/aodora.htm
LariAnn,
Thank you! Can you tell me what zone it is hardy to?
Here's the Plantfiles link:
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/53971/
Looks like it would be hardy in your zone so long as the ground doesn't freeze.
LariAnn
Thank you! I see that it is... Well I will know for next year. I did not think it was so we dug it up and put it in the greenhouse. Is that ok to do? Or does it need to go dormant?
That's quite OK; mine grows year round and does not need to go dormant. The only reason to make them go dormant is when you can't grow them year round. Having it in the greenhouse and growing means you'll have a big jump on those who made theirs go dormant all winter.
LariAnn