Logee's has them for sale @ http://www.logees.com/searchprods.asp
Blessings,
Awanda
Hoya Subcalva....
Looked like the cross to me...the pink was very light pink.
Edited to say that I know the color of the flower is no indication...nor the shade of the color...but with the darker red/pink around the corona, that tells me it is either the cross or H. naumanii. Logees is not famous for correct labeling!!!!
This message was edited Oct 19, 2007 11:13 AM
And they spelled it wrong! That's always a pet peeve to me..
I looked again. H. subcalva has no deeper pink under the corona and the corona lobes are much 'flatter'....the coronal lobes on Logees plant curve up. The pink on mine is a much deeper pink...and the corona lobes have much more/darker red towards the inside of the lobe. I still say it is either H. naumanii or the cross with H. australis that Ted Green has as "Pinkie"...and I have Ed Gildings' cross.
I am NOWHERE near as knowledgable as Carol, but I completely agree with her. Someone sent me a link to that hoya on Logee's before this thread was posted, and the first thing I thought was that the flowers don't have the same coloring as H. subcalva. I have been a long time fan of subcalva, and the one thing I remember clearly is the flower color. I agree with Carol that subcalva has darker blooms than the blooms shown on Logee's site.
Gabi
I wonder if that cross would make it a stronger plant? I hear subcalva can be kinda touchy to raise. Mine is doing great so far, but I keep worrying about it because of past posts I read. Do you have TGs (Pinkie) cross Carol? How does it do for you?
Awanda...did you order one of these? Let us know more about it if you get one.
Marcy
I just got subcalva from the last D. Liddle order, and it's doing great too. But no new growth yet. Anyone have suggestions on what kind of care it thrives on?
Gabi
Mine does not seem to like much sun. It grew a lot of leaves over the summer outside but when the sun shifted to where it was hitting it a bit in the morning....it dropped a couple of it's new leaves. So I moved it to a shady location & now it is doing OK again. I will be bringing it in as soon as the heat wave we are having is over. Supposed to be in the 90s this week end with night temps around 60 so everything is still outside here. I'm taking advantage of the time left by treating all the ones coming in with the systemic so they will all be "aired out" and bug free by the time I do bring em in.
Marcy
I am finding that my H. subcalva (and I have another clone of it from DL with a deeper colored flower) prefers the lower light side of the Greenhouse and consistent watering. Now that I have been using MSU fert. I don't get the wierd colorings in the new leaves as much (I think it is part of the beast) and it seems to flower all of the time!!!
Marcy I did order one so I'll keep you updated on how it does for me.
Blessings,
Awanda
Thanks for the tips. I have mine right next to an East facing window. Should I move it a little further away from the window? I have a "hoya table" right next to the window, and I can always put the subcalva more towards the middle of the table so the other hoyas can give it shade. The only reason I put it so close to the window is because it's so much smaller than the other hoyas, and I wanted to make sure it got enough sun and wasn't "blocked" by the bigger guys. What do you think?
Here is where it sits..you can see the window is to the left of it.
And here it is amongst its big brothers and sisters. Any thoughts of whether I should put it more towards the middle? I really don't want to lose this hoya. I hope the pics helped - thanks.
OK.... I just placed an order to Logee's yesterday ordering the H. suclava/subcalva along with others(and susancva I fell in live with the lauterbachii too so ordered that as well!)anyway now I find the 'subclava' isn't that? Story of my life- always a day behind? SO if anyone figures out what it is please let me know! I hate having something mislabeled.Kind of a pet peave. I have also recently placed an order for episcias through Gary's Out Of Africa. Any one ever done business with him? Might should have asked before placing order?
Gabi...looks good where it is. Is it getting good air circulation?
It was pretty obvious to me from just looking at the picture on Logee's site that there is a glare on the flower, maybe from a flash or something. Possibly distorting the color. Time and time and time again it has been said on this forum that color is not a good parameter for properly ID'ing a flower . Even at the top of this very thread that is mentioned. So please explain to me then why flower color is being used here to determine if Logee's subcalva is the real thing or not. I've bought plants from many so called reputable dealers only to have them bloom out to be something other than what they were sold to me as.
Anyone with half an ounce of brains and any knowledge at all about the plants that they are growing should realize that flowers can,do and will bloom differently in different growing areas,and grown under different conditions. I seem to recall a lot of people buying H. naumanii from Carol simply because they liked the nice shade of pink that hers bloomed ,only to have theirs bloom and be all white or only a light shade of pink. I didnt see anyone questioning her as to if she had sent them the right plant or not .
I may be wrong in making this assumption but am I to assume now that since flower color has taken first place in being the determining factor in properly ID'ng Logee's flower for them,are we now using flower color to properly ID all of our hoyas???
dmichael
Now now, let's be nice.
I have the darker colored subcalva from David Liddle too, and so far it has done well for me. Perhaps it isn't prey to the nutritional fussiness of the first clone of subcalva.
I've had both of the crosses, Ed's and Ted's (Ed and Ted's Hoya Hut? a new business venture, perhaps), and they were both as fussy in my environment as the first clone of subcalva is. I've had all three die on me after a long period of fading away. The new subcalva seems very promising, and I am quite excited about it. hopefully it will smell as good as its lighter flowered cousin.
Awanda -when you say you ordered one do you mean you ordered the Logee's one too? If so I would be curious as to how you care for yours since it sounds like they might be a little picky..
Alohahoya- What is MSU fertilizer? Am I missing out on a good thing?
Well...even with half and ounce of brains and a wee bit of plant sense...I can write well. It seems that you didn't read my post, David...where I agreed that color is not a determinator. I did mention the shape of the corona lobe...THAT does NOT differ in growing conditions and attitudes!
Also the addition of a darker (or lighter) color somewhere on the corolla is usually pretty consistent...
I do not appreciate being called on the mat in a demeaning manner, David. Discussions are fine...even disagreements. But little snipes and the 'half and ounce of brains' is uncalled for.
Carol
edited to say that MSU Fertilizer has been talked about before. Perhaps David Michael can fill you in. He reads so well!
This message was edited Oct 20, 2007 3:32 PM
Dianesjungle, yes I meant I brought the hoya labeled as Subcalva from Logee's. I'm sure it was just a mistake on their part about the mis-spelling since it is spelled correctly on the heading, in the description it's mis-spelled. The one I have now is greenhouse grown, mostly in shade and no watering until it's dry, that routine works for me.
Blessings,
Awanda
I don't plug the MSU fertilizer. Never have and never will,I strictly use the beer formula on my hoyas . In fact I have 3/4 of an unused bucket of the MSU that the first person who offers me postage on ,can have.
Oh what the H@#$ I will plug it but only this once. In my opinion it (MSU)doesn't work and I wouldn't waste my time or money on buying it
And just for the record Carol, I didn't appreciate being called on the mat in a demeaning manner in regards to my use of the beer fertilizer over on another forum.
Sorry-- I'm new here and havent' heard of MSU fert before and wasn't around for the beer fert forum. Hope nothing I've said has started an argument. Defininately not what I was looking for when starting to enjoy talking to other plant people.
Awanda, you posted a picture of your subcalva here a while back which looked very healthy. Hints? Secrets? This would be one of my favorites if I could grow it well.
The MSU fertilizer is Michigan State University fertilizer, developed I think for orchids. it has all the macro and micro-nutrients and works quite well. I, Carol, Gabi and a number of other people here use it and are very happy with it. It is affordable, as one tub of it lasts for a couple of years.
They sell it at First Ray's:
http://www.firstrays.com
The beer fertilizer apparently works well also, as David, Sara, Joanne, Marcy and some others here use it and grow very healthy looking, attractive plants.
It is discussed here in a thread started by Sara:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/665824
markroy68- Thank you. The beer recipe I have something very similar for my orchids. Have only been using it for a month or two and so far so good. But mine doesn't have the molasses, B12 or bloom booster. But adds other things to it . This makes me want to try it on other plants than orchids! Maybe Hoya and epiphyllums will get a little dose of it tomorrow. Just have to go easy- My husband and I aren't really drinkers so it was intersting getting a can of beer for the recipe. Especially since it asked for" cheap beer but not lite" Had a hard time finding any one willing to buy 'cheap'beer! LOL
My goodness. Some people really need to relax. This is such a friendly forum, and it's a shame that people go out of their way to start "arguments". What's wrong with discussing certain things?! Anyway, I woudn't normally pay mind to this ridiculous rant, but I was one of the people who agreed that the color didn't look like the typical coloring of subcalva - it was just an observation!
Carol,
Yes...it has good air circulation. I hope that means it will do fine where it is. I also just put a pebble tray under it for extra humidity - I hope it will like that.
Mark,
I actually don't use MSU (but have thought about it for a brief second!). I use Eleanor's VF-11, and I love it. It's so hard to pick when there are so many good fertilizers that hoya growers rave about!
Gabi
Sorry Gabi, I thought I had seen you mention it in posts before. My mistake.
It's true, there are a lot of good fertilizers out there. Dynagrow Gro is very good, and Foxfarms make some good organic-ish fertilizers as well.
Gabi, my mother doesn't have any children named some people. My name is David,you are very well aware of that and if you need to address me please use that name. And just for the record I am now and was at the time of my posting last evening just as calm and cool as a cucumber.
But if people are going to get on their soapbox and try to continuously bang it into our heads that COLOR is not a good determining factor for properly identifying a hoya ,well then they as well as the rest of us need to stick to that observation. You just said yourself that you were one of the people who agreed that the coloring didn't look like the typical subcalva coloring. Just an observation being made to disclaim the ID of a flower,just an observation but just by making that statement goes to show that you had some doubt about it being H. subcalva,therefor you were using color to properly ID this flower. NO???
It's been brought to my attention that the observations made here for this particular flower not being subcalva are based on the size and shape of the corolla and corona lobes. Were these observations made scientifically with a microscope using a Logee's subcalva flower and a specimen flower from the person who made the observation??? No I don' t think so so therefor in my opinion it doesn't hold water.
To properly make that observation flowers from both specimens must be present,dissected,and thoroughly examined microscopically. In this case that wasn't done so it just doesn't stand.
To answer your question Gabi, there is nothing wrong at all with any one on this forum discussing anything,but i'm sure that you're very well aware of the fact that there is more than enough confusion in the hoya world already with misidentified plants without the newer growers being led to believe that color can be used as a determining factor to properly ID a flower.
So please let me make it perfectly clear to you that I did not go out of my way to start an argument. I as a paying member on this site,being a human being and a free, red blooded American ,living on this planet, am entitled to post my opinion on any subject being discussed here or on any other forum and that's exactly what I did. I paid $20 to talk just like you and everybody else here.
Diane,you didn't say or do anything to cause an argument here,so please don't feel as if you did. Every now and again we have minor disagreements,it happens on all of the forums and usually within a day or so after everyone has had their say things will settle down and get back to normal!!!!
Wow. I was not trying to disclaim the ID, David. I was making the simple "observation" that the flower color is not as dark as I remember subcalva to be. You really are doing a good job at giving this forum an unfriendly tone, David. Of course you have every right to your opinion, but there is a way to state your opinion in a nicer way.
Anyway - back to regular friendly discussion. I caved in this morning and bought subcalva from Logees as well. I mean, why not have 2! I'm a little worried after hearing it can be kind of difficult, so at least I'll now have 2 to give it a go with. I hope I can get both to bloom. I will post a pic of the plant when I get the plant.
Gabi
Diane, welcome to the hoya forum! :) "Friendly" disagreements abound everywhere, and certainly shouldn't be a deterrent to taking part, talking plants, and meeting new and interesting friends.
I wouldn't worry about the subcalva id - if you like the plant pictured, then enjoy it, hopefully with no regrets. Often I have labeled my hoyas : "purchased as ___", and until I find out differently, that is how it stays. I also have multiple id's on my tags, as I have gotten cuttings from friends with the condition: "it may be subcalva, it may be vitiensis - can't remember which one I cut". Heee Heeee, it sort of makes it an exciting hoya grab bag!!
Though often cautioned against it, I frequently try to id my hoyas by their leaves!! HA! Fat lot of good that does. I was looking at Gabi's picture of subcalva from David Liddle, and thought "that doesn't look like any subcalva I have ever seen pictures of". I have subcalva, and Ed's australis/subcalva cross, and the leaf shapes are completely different. Again, that is not how you are supposed to identify any hoya, but the leaves in Logees picture look a lot more like my subcalva leaves then the aussi/cross...Yup, I know, no help there either.
I guess my rambling doesn't have much of a point, except that maybe one could drive oneself crazy trying to attach an exact id to any hoya, but we can all just do the best we can, and keep the id's that the plants come with, as well as where they were purchased intact, and do our best to uphold the integrity of the hoyas we have.
I purchased my initial vitellina from Carol in 2004, and labeled it as such. Then, when that id was questioned, and changed, Carol let us all know, and it is now labeled as Hoya vitellina, changed to fusco-marginata per Carol N. Same with clemensorium, now known as H. sp. abas per Carol N. Etc, Etc.
I have found though that it is VERY important to keep the IML #'s intact. Those don't change, while the name attached to the IML # has changed. I have several IML numbered hoyas that I have named one way, but will see named a different way in David Liddle's catalog as they come out year after year. Of course not all hoyas come with IML #'s, but again you just do what you can with what you have. I usually ask friends, and vendors alike if a new hoya has an IML # by chance when I get new cuttings or plants.
I used to be a bit uptight about my hoyas and their id's. I have found that I enjoy them for what they are, id them as best as I can, and go with the flow when the names change. After all, they are still my beloved plants, and very seldom have I inadvertently purchased duplicates simply because of name confusion.
Cheers, and happy hoya hunting,
Sara
Gabi
When I started my order form with Logee's I had marked 2 on the subcalva. But changed it later to 1 trying to get my spending under control HA! SO really keep your fingers crossed for me!
Sara
Thanks for the welcome! Yes I did like the picture of the Hoya bloom. I'm a sucker for ANYTHING pink!
I try to keep track of where I get my other kinds of plants and also when.-month & year So I'll be doing the same for these.
Not being a Botanist, Taxonomist nor anything similar, I have been under the impression that modern day Taxonomists - or in general anyone with Herbarium sheets or copies of them - use drawings made by the original collectors to compare with actual flowers or photos/pictures of another to substantiate their opinions re: IDs. I guess I am mistaken. David, do you mean that David Liddle, Paul Forster, Chris Burton and Ted Green (among others) have to have TWO actual living flowers to compare microscopically?And that nothing done with pictures or drawings to compare is valid?
Hmmmmmm. Interesting. Guess they are all wrong, eh?
I received my hoya subcalva's from Logees today. Both are very nice size and healthy.
Blessings,
Awanda
Hi Awanda
I got an email from them that they've shipped mine and should get it next week. Nice to see a good sample of what I'm getting. I can hardly wait!!- Diane
Mark, I was going to say that at first my subcalva got those funky, discolored leaves as well, but now it seems to have outgrown the problem, as if it were adolescent acne or something, lol.
Julia
Wow, those are really healthy looking plants! I ordered 1 and it should be here by next week also. Now I'm thinking I should've ordered 2 of em! But I have my other subcalva from David Liddle - I'm curious to see which one does better (AKA blooms faster!).
Awanda, are you going to combine them into one plant?
Gabi
Nice looking plants Awanda. This is my H. subcalva which is only a about a year old now. It would have been much larger than it currently is but I have chopped on it many times this year to share cuttings with other people.
dmichael
I'm going to grow them separately. David yours is a beauty. Thanks Gabi, Susan & David, I am really pleased with them.
Blessings,
Awanda