Butterflies in the Herb Garden

Hi all--

I don't post often on the Herbs forum but I lurk daily here and grow several kinds of herbs. I enjoy all your posts and the good info...

So I was googl-ing for plants to fill in a sunny dry space in our front garden and came across this very informative article about particular herbs that butterflies like for nectar and to ovipost (lay their eggs that turn into caterpillars that turn into butterflies) on. And I thought of the herb forum and I thought I'd share it so that others could learn a bit more about this fun aspect of growing herbs...

http://butterflygardeners.com/herb.htm

When I have to make a choice between plants to add to the garden, I always like to choose the variety/cultivar that the butterflies like the best. Sometimes its difficult to know which is most attractive to the butterflies with out having actually tried out the different herbs in the garden, but it's always nice to have some tips...

Of course, some gardeners don't like butterflies because their caterpillars eat some herb foliage (i.e., parsley, dill, artimesia) but I just plant extras for them....

I am also wondering if any of you have noticed any particular herb of interest to the Butterflies and if so, which ones??... thanks so much. t.

Photo: Swallowtails on my verbena (wildly popular herb flower with most of the BFs that visit our garden here in the Midwest.)

I know in some reference books, coneflowers Echinacea are considered an herb and these guys loved them this year.

and these guys too... The Echinacea was a hit.
Thanks for the link, I will tour it.

Right you are Pod! Butterflies love echinacea. And bee balm (Monarda).

And on the bee balm

Your bee balm/monarda looks so elegant with the yellow swallowtail! I wish my monarda would stand up straight like that! (not enough sun, I think)

I read somewhere that echinacea are an excellent choice for butterflies that fly in July and August (the pretty monarchs and swallowtails around here)--long bloom season for them and many different butterflies can access the nectar in them. I have a few new echinaceas in our garden but they are still babies...can't wait 'til they're bigger and the butterflies find them!

Bronze fennel,a host plant for swallowtails.

Nice shot! I've got clump of bronze fennel out next to my butterfly bush, and I did see some swallowtail cats on it... But there are a lot of different wasps in my garden, so between those and the birds the caterpillars often seem to disappear. Still, there seem to be more butterflies in the garden each year, so some of them must be surviving!

Hi, Tabasco!
Nice to see you re-surface again! I lurk here everyday, also. I have a herb garden and try doing the same thing with butterflies--add everything they can grow on.

I have a number of coneflowers and yes, that's the one they brake for! I think they also like the tiny flowers and foliage of chamomile, as well as dill and fennel, as you noted. I have grwon several kinds of salvias and those are "super-magnets!" Unfortunately, I am never camera-ready for those fleeting moments. I need to go back and wait them out next year. My list is short so far as I've mostly been growing culinary herbs and a few medicinals....

One other plant worth mentioning here (not a herb though), that I love and have a nifty little collection of, is columbine (aquilegias). They are "magnets" for their delicate foliage and flowers. These are mid-late spring bloomers and give BF's a boost. Sorry, no digital pics of my group, but I will get them next spring for sure.

That's a good article you found, and thanks for sharing!

Tabasco ~ while outside today, I noticed the salvia and a variety of scullcaps have a heavy flight pattern of butterflies. I tried for a photo on either but they move too fast for this old gal.

I did capture this girlie on the Gomphrena globosa ~ bachelor buttons. I have both purple and red and she totally ignored the red but lit on every purple one that was in the sun.

Incidentally it seems the purple and blue blooms are holding their interest today.

Hi, tabasco, all I can do is list the flowers that are always attracting butterflies around here: fennel, blue mistflower and trailing lantana. All beautiful and always a magnet for butterflies.

podster--from the looks of the Plant Files on Globe Amaranth the butterflies must love it. I hadn't heard of it mentioned before you posted! Good idea!

http://davesgarden.com/guides/bf/showimage/2669/


Foxnfirefly, intersting that you mentioned the salvias. I posted on the Salvia forum asking about butterflies and there was little response which surprised me. But, apparently there are several salvias that are very popular with them though because ron dufresne followed up with an informative posting later. Of course, the hummingbirds love some salvias to death.

I have lots of new aquilegia seeds from a very nice DGer and I hope to get a nice stand of them going next spring. I guess I didn't realize the butterflies liked them but we shall see! Do they qualify as an herb? They seem a bit 'herb-y', don't they?!?

the blue mistflower must be like magic for the butterflies in TX. Everyone has great luck with it there. Here I think the closest we have to it is a tall blue ageratum and I don't know if it works as well. Or if it is an herb. Again it seems 'herb-y'!

I am going to reorganize my whole butterfly garden next spring and make more room for herbs. Of course, the mint is taking over right now and I wish I had put it in a pot! Oh, well! I have the wasp thing going on in our garden too. I wish they would go away but I don't want to spray....

I didn't mean to say Globe amaranth is an herb ~ but don't buy seed, I will gladly share. It is an easy annual.
My salvia is coccinea and red and loved by the butterflies when it is in the sun.

Well, I have no idea what really classifies something as an 'herb'. 'Globe Amaranth' looks and sounds like an herb to me!

I notice Plant Files has several different kinds but they all appear the same to me!

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/search.php?q=%27Globe+Amaranth%27+&Search=Search+PlantFiles

And thank you for your offer of seed, podster. I would love some, and is there something I could send you? Maybe some liatris pycnostachia seed? (I don't think that is an herb, though!) Or something else? (Please D-mail me with your address since I am not in the exchange...)



This message was edited Nov 17, 2007 4:29 PM

Actually, I feel every herb garden needs some bright spots of blooms mixed it. Not all herbal blooms are showy and the blooms of annuals mixed in will help attract the pollinators.

I meant to get back to you sooner Tabasco but I wanted to get some links on salvias for you. I don't think I saw the salvia forum or I would have said something....There are probably 900 plus species of this plant, and the major groups are the Calif. white sage, clary sage, Spanish sage, violet sage, Mexican bush sage, etc. Too many to list here, and I am not botanically literate enough to explain the groups. But look for Salvia greggii, Salvia coccinea, and salvia apiana. Salvia officinalis-aka "garden sage," attracts them as host. Their leaves and flowers are gourmet. Most of the greggii and coccineas are hardy to zone 5-7, so folks in your area would find them tender perennials or annuals. The Salvia greggii's are great plants. Plant Delights Nursery has several varieties of them.

Since host plants are key to increasing butterflies, plant parsleys, cabbage, spinach and mustard, dill and fennel!! You'll have a bunch of caterpillars in no time! We herb gardeners add a lot of annual flowers for color and to feed the butterflies after they become adults. The butterflies aren't that picky about flowers, but they are about hosts. The thing about flowers is that they must be "easy" to get at. Flowers in the Compositae genus (marigolds, mums, daisies, etc.) are usually the ones you'll see them busy with. Also, some hybrids are partially sterile and don't pollinate. Get the ones that pollinate and develop seed.

Which goes to aquilegias....there are many species and cultivars in this group, too. But the flowers are very different for some. Some have the sophistocated spurred blooms, while others are bell-shaped and dropp downward. Remember that butterflies like easy meals. I don't know for sure, but I haven't ever seen a butterfly hang by its toes and unfurl its curly tongue to drink upside down. Maybe folks in the other forums know about it. But I wouldn't get the drooping flowers for butterflies. Get the ones that have the spurs and upward-facing flowers that aren't the hybrid type that may be sterile. Many aquilegias will re-seed themselves, so you really need to start them in fall outside. They like cold moist weather.

Hi, Foxnfirefly--

Thanks for all the specifics on the Salvias. I will add your post to my Butterfly Journal page and refer to it often. I am perusing the plant catalogs looking for salvias that will thrive here...not so easy because the wet spells of winter sometimes do them in, if not the cold.

Yes, I love the butterfly nectar plants for the garden, too. So much fun to see the little creatures wafting through the air in summer time. Adds a creatively fun dimension to the herb garden! t.

For those who are interested in adding more Butterfly Larval Host Plants to the Herb Garden here is a list of plants from the Herb Family from Claire Hagen Dole's article in the Butterfly Gardeners' Quarterly http://butterflygardeners.com/herb.htm

Larval plants (butterfly species noted):

Achillea millefolium (yarrow). Painted Lady
Anethum graveolens (dill). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Angelica spp. Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Artemesia absinthium (wormwood). Painted Lady
Artemesia dracunculus 'sativa' (French tarragon). Oregon Swallowtail
Borago officinalis (borage). Painted Lady
Carum carvi (caraway). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Dictamnus spp. (gas plant). Giant Swallowtail
Foeniculum vulgare (fennel). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Glycyrrhiza spp. (licorice). Silver Spotted Skipper
Helichrysum angustifolium (curry plant). Painted Lady
Humulus lupulus (hops). Gray Hairstreak; Comma; Question Mark; Red Admiral
Levisticum officinale (lovage). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Melissa officinalis (lemon balm). White Peacock
Mentha spp. (mint). White Peacock, Painted Lady
Petroselinum crispum (parsley). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Pimpinella anisum (anise). Black Swallowtail; Anise Swallowtail
Ruta graveolens (rue). Black Swallowtail; Giant Swallowtail. Warning: oils can burn sensitive
skin; wear gloves when handling.
Salvia spp. (sage). Gray Hairstreak; Painted Lady; West Coast Lady
Symphytum officinale (comfrey). Painted Lady
Tanacetum vulgare (tansy). Painted Lady
Tropaeolum majus (nasturtium). Cabbage white
Viola odorata (sweet violet). Fritillaries

I know it bothers some gardeners to have the caterpillars chew up some of the leaves but I happen to love it when it happens--I do plant extra parsleys and dill just for the butterflies to take over...I love the swallowtails in the garden!

I found several threads with additional suggestions for nectar flowers in the butterfly forum, too, if anyone needs new ideas for their part of the country....

Another swallowtail on the verbena bonarienses.

"Herbs for Butterflies"

http://www.bbg.org/gar2/topics/wildlife/handbooks/butterflyguide/8.html

Another addition to the data bank of info on Herbs for Butterflies.

I found this very nice article by Jim and Dotti Becker on the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens site with wonderful suggestions for herbs for butterflies:

Interesting article but ouch! I always trim off the blooms on the woolly apple mint and the oreganos to keep the herbs tastier. Guess I better plant some more for the BFs...

Very good articlies, Tabasco!! Thanks for sharing.

I found a site that deals exclusively with edible and medicinal plants that has a good list of salvias and their uses which I think may shed more light on the types of desirable sages. They don't really specify which plant, which butterfly, but you'll be able to know what kinds of sages you want to grow for a specific purpose. The butterflies will be the bonus.

The "Plants For a Future" is a resource center and charitable organization which provides information on edible and useful plants that promote ecology and environment. It is based in the U.K. If you go to the "search plant database" option, you will get an interesting list of salvias.

Go to:
http://www.pfaf.org/

Judy, thanks for the great article. I planted a lot of dill, parsley and fennel this year, but I'm still not seeing a lot of b'flies. I'll work on expanding the herb garden to more of what's listed in the article. I already have a butterfly garden with a good selection of nectar plants, but it doesn't seem to be enough.

Plants for a Future has a great website with lots of great info! Thanks for posting the link!

And I will check out the salvias and see if I can make some good choices for our area.

And, grampapa, I know what you mean about not getting the butterflies (in 'hoards') as I expected them after planting all my butterfly herbs and flowers! Actually I do get many many more than my neighbors, but I want more more more! I think I'm getting obsessed!

I did plant parsley, dill, fennel for the swallowtails to lay their eggs on but got no takers. I think this is because the parsley and dill are hidden down amongst the zinnias and verbenas. Next year I am going to place the herb host plants in a mass in their own section of the garden so the swallowtails can find them easily. I have heard they have terrible eyesight and rely on scent to find their way around too.

I had several butterflies in the garden today including a red admiral. Pretty late for us.

I don't think you'll ever see as many buterflies at once as you wish or expect....it does take time for nature to "discover" your area and then, you have to keep providing the habitats. You can't just plant five or six nectar plants--you have to have the prerequisite sunny, serene and windless spot, water/mud feature, special hosts and little to large masses of nectar plants. I see more and more butterflies each year, but usually only one or two, sometimes 3 at a time. I see more types passing through. I think they come for the food and look for a host. I am seeing more blues, lots of whites, a brown and black one, and one that looks like an Eastern Swallowtail that is more frequently seen each year. They are yellow with black Monarch-like designs. I need to identify these lovely creatures.....

I am getting carried away with the salvias. Here are a couple more articles that cover the different types and their garden/medicinal uses. A lot of good horticultural information and culitar names are given:

Mountain Valley Organic Growers, Inc. (Organic Herbs & Perennials) link:
http://www.mountainvalleygrowers.com/salviaarticle.htm

Clemson University Extension Service/Home & Garden Information Center Factsheets:
http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1174.htm

The Clemson site discusses salvia varieties as they perform in South Carolina....they mention some that are hardy in the mountains there in SC, so the mountain salvias might be tough enough for Ohio, but you'll just have to try them and see.

fox, great links for the sage--thanks so much...

There is so much to know about salvias and they have improved the range available in the past 5 years or so even for us in the wet winter zones... We could grow marvelous salvias when we lived in California--here in Cincinnati the wet winters seem to do them in -- except for the few that are recommended for here...the pineapple sage does OK in a protected spot and our bog sages have come back for a couple of years...

Our butterfly garden is lots of fun for us. We get a number of butterflies visiting--in part because we are adjacent to a woodland/native plant/county forest, parts of which are planted specifically for our local butterfly population. In the past three years we planted many of the host and nectar plants in our yard, too, which lures them out of hiding to get up close and personal with us! We are keeping a yard list and it's getting longer and we do the local butterfly counts for Audubon, etc.

It's hard for me to be patient for the butterflies to come by, though, when one reads the Butterfly forum and notices the huge number of butterflies that visit gardens in TX and FLA and points south. I think, too, your area may get quite a few in the late fall, right? If my memory serves me, Washington DC area is on the flyway south and enjoys many of the migrants...

BTW, are you a member of the Washington DC butterfly society? I think they have a very nice website, too, with lots of info.

It's sunny and bright here this weekend and a great time to be planting in the garden. Hope you're enjoying it too! take care. t.

No, I don't belong to any butterfly society at this time or ever have. I've considered a lot of possible choices, though, including the Nature Conservancy, The Sierra Club, and The Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Society, etc, etc.. I am currently a member of the American Horticultural Society and the American Rose Society. What next? Eenie, meanie, miney-moe!

I'll check the D.C. site--I'm sure it will inspire. Here's another site for your butterfly fancies. This site goes whole hog:

http://www.amazingbutterflies.com

Thanks for the 'amazing butterfly' site link. I see he's selling milkweed rooted cuttings for $19.50! A bit too rich for my blood! Lots of good butterfly merchandise for sale, too.

The Washington Butterfly Club is a really good site for info and local events--one of the best for a local butterfly club that I have come across. http://users.sitestar.net/butterfly/

NABA has loads of good information too. http://www.naba.org/pubs.html I use their website a lot for research on butterflies.

I am a member of the AHS, too. Would love to get to their 'farm' in Alexandria some time for an event.

Also a member of Ohio Lepidopterists. Pretty scientific group.

Tabasco,
I took a look at the DC Butterfly Club site and it is very good! I would love to join the club, but am a bit busy right now. I will keep an eye on it. I tried to see if I could identify the butterflies I've seen so far and it looks like a Red Admiral, Gray Hairstreak, Cabbage Whites, and the Eastern Tiger Swallowtails, both yellow and blues. I've seen some brown ones, but there are several that could be it. I just need to take pictures next time to be certain.

I am looking for plants for next year and came across an awesome salvia supllier. I could not believe how many this person has!! I will try this supplier myself and see, but you may want to look at the extensive listing of salvias....

http://www.eclectasy.com/gallery_of_salvias/

Also, I found that the Lazy S nursery (in the Watchdog list) has a lot of varieties of salvias for zones 4-6, so you may want to look there, too! The salvia x superba types are more hardy for your area. I think "May Night" is one that you might want to garden with--it won "perennial of the year" some years back.

Hi, again fox,

Yes, Rich Dufresne has a huge variety of salvias and lots of invaluable info on his site (World of Salvias). He also posts regularly on Dave's Garden and is happy to share salvia advice especially. He responded to a butterfly/salvia question I posed earlier this year...

I cleaned up my garden a bit yesterday and removed a number of kaput annuals. Lo and behold, I discovered several Salvias that were underlying (and old tags from some that had succumbed). I think 'May Night' is one of them that still survives...also have several others like 'Black and Blue' that I potted up to take into the garage to try to winter over. Butterflies supposedly like B & B but I haven't noticed much action on it.

http://www.parkseed.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StoreCatalogDisplay?storeId=10101&catalogId=10101&langId=-1&mainPage=advsearchresults&SearchText=p16.v226;p10.v57&scChannel=Seeds%20AS

If you need more seeds, Parks Seeds is having a 35% off SALE on just about everything for a few days and if you enter 15PRKCPN when you check out you will get another 15% off. Not a bad deal. Lots of herbs and a few salvia seeds. I am going to try some tall annual ones for the hummingbirds....

And, btw, If you like rarer seeds, especially hard to find butterfly host plant seeds, Specialty Perennials is having a 20% off sale until January 1. Specialty Perennials is really for the seed addict, I think--so many varieties, but not many photos, so you have to know what you are looking for. I love it! http://hardyplants.com/index.htm I think they carry about 15 kinds of milkweed alone.

I am happy you like the Washington DC Butterfly Club site. It has some good info. The other site that you might find useful if you are trying to learn to ID butterflies is the Massachusetts Audubon site. They have a very nice 'comparison' set up to look at similar butterflies together. I use it for the brown ones, too!

Hmm, I didn't realize that the person Ron in World of Salvias is the one and the same that you were talking about--just wasn't paying attention to names, sorry. I will go back to see the article because I really missed all that on the salvia forum you mentioned. Just wasn't there.

Thanks for the tip on Park Seeds and Speciality Seeds--I've gotten seeds from Parks before and they did well. I didn't do seed starting much before but this year I bought some equipment and a few packets of seeds just so I could have what I wanted. I had lots of giant red and orange zinnias, basils, tomatoes and peppers. Just a wobbly start..but more is to come!!

I'm sort of new at seed starting too but found Wintersowing to be a big boost in confidence and understanding of seeds. Have done that for a couple of years and found I could grow plants not available at the garden center and save some $$....

Then I branched out last year into starting seeds in pots in the spring and some zinnias in the garden. I'm beginning to be fascinated by it...

Now I think I've overdone it with the on line seed purchases and swaps, but....oh, well!

I searched around on the internet last night for salvias for northern hummingbird gardens and found several recommendations. (I started a thread here, if you have some thoughts... http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/790686/ ) I wish I could start some of these from seed but most of them look proprietary cultivars.

This message was edited Feb 17, 2008 6:35 PM

Hi, everyone,
Here's another plant that is supposedly attractive to butterflies and hummingbirds --Indian Pinks (Spigelia marilandica). This plant was previously a medicinal herb used by the Native Americans to treat intestinal worms, but it was "banned" due to dangerous side effects (irregular heartbeat, convulsions and dizziness). However, native plant proponents seem to still recommend it for wildlife habitat gardening. This is a sought-after for my 2008 herb garden goodies. The flowers are knock-outs!

http://www.rubythroat.org/PinkIndianMain.html

Spigelia marilandica grows as an uncommon wildflower here. It blooms in May but we don't see any butterfly activity that early in the summer. I have not noticed but perhaps the hummers do enjoy it. It is pretty...

Just went through this thread again looking for herbs to grow for my butterflies and of course my kitchen, too!

I am wondering about growing them from seed---? I suppose I should start a new thread for that, though...

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/48891/

podster--I looked up Indian Pinks and it appears it's a very popular plant in Plant Files. Looks like a nice one for hummingbirds, perhaps?

You know, these grow down by the pond on the edge of the woods. I have not seen the hummers or butterflies around them but only see them when I walk the dogs or take them down to swim. I would think they would appeal to both butterflies and hummingbirds (not the dogs).

I suspect they are popular (plant files) as they are most photogenic. 8 ) I love the contrast of the primary colors and each spring when I see them in bloom, I dig out the camera. Another wonder of nature!

Hi, podster,

Thanks for your report on the Indian Pinks. I know the HB Forum posters have been interested in them, but I'm not sure how the HBs respond to them. It will be interesting to get Foxnfirefly's report next summer!

I did start a new Herb germination thread, although I am sure all the information on seed starting different herbs is somewhere around here---I just can't seem to find it!

Maybe others will share their advice--

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/814634/

Good morning~ I will have to tour that thread.

You know, the Indian Pinks only bloom in May here and then set seed. Perhaps one could deadhead and keep them blooming, I don't know. After the blooms, they are done for the season. Even tho these are pretty, I would think those looking to attract BFs and hummers would want a longer bloomer.

Oh, interesting thought. I'll keep that in mind about them.

Hey, Tabasco--
I haven't heard any more news from the Hummingbirds & Butterflies group--I think we will be the first DGers to actually witness a HB and/or BF on an Indian Pink.......if we get lucky, that is. The comments in the Plant Files were on the appearance of the flower mostly.....it will take some vigilant watchers to stake out the planting area to see what flies by....

To answer some questions on Salvias, I've found that Salvia keerli (formerly known as S. melissodora of Yucca-Do) and S. melissodora (grape-scented sage, Tarahumara sage) are both good for butterflies.

If you all want a no-fail plant for butterflies (and all kinds of other insects), get Pycnanthemums (mountain mints). They not only attract moths and butterflies, but wasps of all sizes (the bigger ones will defend the flowers from you), bees, and even flies. If you have a problem with tomato hornworms (hawkmoth larvae), they will more likely be controlled by braconid wasps attracted by the flowers. The paper wasps are also good hunters of cabbage caterpillars. A range of Pycnanthemum species will extend the blooming time.

If you like hawkmoths and don't care about tomatoes, grow Daturas and Brugmansias. Look for visitors around sunset. The can be as startling as hummers.