Wow, did I ever pick the right time to check on the cat today!!! We saw the cat just as it stared pupating, and with camera in hand, I was able to get some amazing pictures. Once he got going it was so fast!!
Hope ya'll enjoy the pictures! :)
Pupating right before our eyes and camera
more....
this is just simply amazing!
one more...
ok, one last one -- have to have the "finished" picture. :) Just way cool!!
really cool !!
Neat. Now can I ask how long in the pupa stage for the swallowtail? My only experience is with the monarch, but today I collected 5 large larva from my parsley.
the first of these for me. Luckily the cage was empty so parsley and larva have a new home.
How does the swallowtail winter over? I know nothing except I recognize the larva stage on my parsley.
Now that is way cool. Lucky timing for you. I have honestly never seen a BST pupate or what the chrysalid looks like as many cats as I have had over the years on my dill. Not bad looking. Cool how it is stuck to the stick with its butt and then has the silk at its head holding it on. Congratulations girl getting to see that. Hope the family was watching with you. And thanks for the awesome pics to show us how it is. That did not look near as painful as the GF's do. Was it not wiggling around the whole time?
Leslie
I got to watch too, and filmed most of it, love watching it - am still in awe
I got to see the split in the begining, ran to get my camera and almost missed it! They do go through some gyrations when they shed the final skin. Very interesting to watch.
As for the time frame, they are a bit unpredictable, but most of mine have been ready to eclose in 10-12 days. As the time gets close the chrysalis will become transparent and you will see the black of the wings, and occasionally the white dots of the body.
Thanks everyone!!
It was definitely an experience!! I was stressing earlier today because it hadn't done anything in 24 hours, and then, in about 2 - 3 minutes' time, it was completely enclosed in its chrysilis. Cori (my 10 year old daughter) was able to watch everything better than I because I was taking so many pictures. It was amazing.
Sheila, thanks for letting me know what to look for when it's ready to eclose. It will be very interesting to see if this one ecloses within the next 10 - 12 days, or if it waits until spring.
Here's a question. When they are in a controlled environment inside, how do they know if it is too cold outside to eclose?
Hey Lily!
What a great capture! You did well! As for the time they will eclose at this point, the temps are falling now and days are shorter. *however* They might have got in right under the wire to eclose in about 10-12 days. Here in my zone, cats that morphed in mid October overwintered as chrysalids.
You are going to be the test person for zone 6b here. If they don't eclose by the 15th of Sept., just keep them in a tightly sealed, but airy cage, they will most likely overwinter until late April.
Last year my last batch that morphed around Oct 23, did hibernate and overwintered until April.
I will dig up those threads later after I get the kids off to school.
:-D
Thanks, Deb!!
Well, I wish the temperature would fall a bit -- still in the 90's here.
Ok, I have September 15th firmly etched in my brain now, and will also tell Cori, who never forgets anything!! It would be great if it ecloses then -- I'd feel better about it surviving, rather than having to wait till April. Which brings a question: What if it ecloses during the Winter when I have no food to feed it? By having the chrysilid in a controlled, warm environment, how is it able to determine when to eclose? Do they have some kind of internal clock to help them out?
Wow, what an experience this is!!
For Black STs I prefer them to overwinter. That is what will increase their longevity. The ones that overwinter live the longest of all. If it ecloses in Sept, there is a greater chance it would freeze.
I will safely say, you can rest about the BSTs eclosing in winter. They just won't do that. Yes they have a little clock like every other hibernating/migrating creature. I believe there are many things involved with that. Temps are only one thing.
Last December I had a Gulf Fritillary make a chrysalis on a rooting PV in my bathroom. When it morphed, I packed up the chrysalis along with one of the BSTs that had been chrysalids for 2 months, and sent them to beckygardener in FL. Within 2 weeks both of them eclosed very nicely. The other 3 BSTs eclosed around the first of April 07.
Relax, and just keep them as safe as you can from predators. Also keep them close to outside temps so they can feel the season. I kept mine inside the enclosed patio which was not heated, but not freezing. Spray them with a fine mist of clean or distilled water every week where ever you keep them. They will be alright.
I remember reading the thread about you sending Becky the chrysalids. That was very cool.
Well, we've got four more babies to go, and I'm guessing around 7 or 8 eggs, so I guess it can be safely said that those will wait until spring to eclose. That will be great, so many at one time!!
Thanks so much for the information, and because of it, I can relax -- and plan for next year. :)
I'll definitely let ya know if this one ecloses by the 15th.
I haven't seen any cats. Where do you all look for them at?
Makshi, when the BST lays their eggs, it's on the bottom of the leaf, and it is a pale lime green color -- makes you go blind trying to find the eggs!! Then, as the eggs get mature, they darken. Once the egg hatches, look for a dark speck on the bottom side of the leaf (I just saw this stage tonight). There's your cat. Once they get a bit bigger, you can find them on the top side of the leaf. They are basically black with a white stripe that goes across the middle.
This is all new to me, so I'm still learning, but I hope that helped!!
Okay, here comes the dumb question for the day. I have heard so much about the skin splitting. Is that what really happens. I mean to me it looks like they are building this stuff outside their skin, little shells so to speak. But from what I understand they are really splitting open and that stuff is coming out. Is this anywhere close to being correct? It is just too weird for me to think about. It would also explain the wiggling and writhing the poor little guys do if their skin is splitting open. I know with my GF's they are dark brown the whole time they are eating. Then when they get in the J they start turning a really sick gray color. It looks like their skin is bubbling almost. Then the writhing begins and that is as far as I have gotten to see. So can someone please help with the skin splitting thing? I would love to understand it a little better.
And again, great pics. So exciting for Cori I am sure because it is so exciting for us as adults, I can imagine a child getting to see that. Wish I had when I was young.
Leslie
You can see the split skin in these pics pretty good, I actually watched and filmed the whole process, spent a full day hanging out by the cage to catch one... once I saw the antennae wilted I knew the show was starting
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/763804/
maybe this pic shows the beginning better - it is actually very cool to watch the film back again, all the wigglin to get out
edit-sorry not really a clear pic once enlarged
This message was edited Sep 5, 2007 7:06 AM
Pretty cool debilu. I am sorry but it just freaks me out. I mean does this hurt, ya think? I know they have been doing it forever but really. Looks so painful. I know my little guys will wiggle and writhe for hours, sometimes a day before they start to really get going. It is horrible, or looks horrible anyway. I wouldn't want to do it. LOL. Thanks for sharing that with me. So cool.
Leslie
Thats okay. Still a cool pic. I know from watching my GF's, that they shed their furry skin. It is always on top of whatever they are stuck to. I have just never seen them do it. I too have sat for hours trying to catch it and always miss it because I have to give up and go to bed or something. So I would love to see them wiggle out of the hairy part of the skin, I think. Maybe not. But at least it would help me understand a little better about the skin thing. Thanks a bunch for helping me understand a little better.
Leslie
Leslie, that is exactly what happens when the BST I pictured started. It was moving and jerking when I first noticed it. I looked closer and saw a tear in the outer skin beginning at the back of it's head. It went though a lot of movement but it was over so quick! It was like a kid you told they could go swimming if they hurried and changed clothes! LOL!
Here is a pic of a few of the BST first instar, so you know what to look for Makshi. But I think it may be getting too late for them to lay anymore eggs this year.
This message was edited Sep 5, 2007 6:14 AM
I never knew they shed their skin when they pupate. Wow. Amazing what these go through to become a butterfly!!
Actually, Sheila, Cori and I watched a BST lay eggs on Saturday. But then, Makshi is in zone 5 and I'm in zone 6. Maybe because it is so abnormally hot here? And, one laid eggs on August 22, and the first one "hatched" last night. Tiny, tiny little thing.
Yes, they are still laying here too, but I think it may be getting cooler where she is.
Yeah Leslie, Their skin splits as the goo envelopes them and makes a hardened cast for the bfly to form inside of. I don't think it hurts them, if anything it might tickle. That explains the writhing.
Sulphurs are really funny too when they pupate. They kick out to the side.
Great pics and explaination Sheila! :-D
Makishi~ Being in zone 5 you might not get any this year. If you happen to they will not get very big, (that's okay too), and they will most likely overwinter in their chrysalids. Also the eggs can be white or yellow too. Singly laid and perfectly spherical. Get a magnifying glass from the dollar store or walgreens on the dollar aisle, that might help to see them if you have any.
This message was edited Sep 5, 2007 6:50 AM
Thanks, I have a magnifying glass actually 3 of them so I will have to go look. I have so many butterflies that it has been a real pleasure to watch them.
So, here's a real basic question. :)
When this is ready to eclose, what do I look for? Is there a change in color of the chrysalid?
Can ya tell I'm getting a bit excited?
look at this pic and see the little stretch by the cap? it was shortly after I noticed that
Deb, do you have any pictures of BST's I could compare to? The chrysalis is so completely different between the Monarch and BST that your awesome picture (they are so cool when you can see through the chrysalis!) really doesn't help. Again, this is my very first time, and I don't know what to look for when they are about to eclose.
oh, I thought you meant monarch - sorry! speed reading at it's best!
The strange thing about the BSTs and the GSTs...the only 2 I have raised....is the chrysalis looks the same after they eclose, except a little lighter, but the shape is the same. I've never caught them emerging, so the chrysalis must go almost back to the same position. It's weird, it must be stretchy.
huh, that's pretty cool, Fly. I'll have to pay attention to that.
Well, it's been 10 days now, so, any day now, or wait till Spring. I'm thinking with our nighttime temperatures right around 50 these days, maybe it should wait till spring to eclose. That's going to feel like such a long wait!!