Odd, this is the first time this smaller H. carnosa has bloomed and it is deliver two different colored blooms. The one on the left is definitely pinker which is what caught my attention to begin with... Any thoughts?
Two different colored blooms on one Hoya carnosa
Hi Pod is the one on the left a newer bloom then the one on the right? That could be a factor.
Jeri
First thought...it looks great!!! Jeri is right...could be age of flower or just the flower.
Are both flowers coming from the same part of the plant? Sometimes cuttings from different plants go into the same pot, that could be the reason. I did it myself once, stuck a carnosa cutting into a bare spot in a pot full of what I thought was also carnosa, but it turned out to be pubicalyx. Now it is pretty cool when the plant is blooming with both dark and light pink flowers, but it was definately a mistake! In your case, possibly the grower was making up new plants from cuttings and took them from different carnosas that they have.
Well ~ I believe the pinker one is the 2nd bloom, yes. In which case, the bloom may fade in this summer light. OTH, the right one looks like the large H. carnosa blooms. Their blooms start in this paler shade.
Bhavana ~ you might have something there. I did the cuttings and potted them but I noticed one variegated stem in that pot. I didn't remember putting more than one type of Hoya in this pot. If so, the variegation is Krimson princess. I have never had the Krimson princess bloom for me, so don't know what the bloom will look like. Let me look closer in daylight and see. I'll be back.... pod
When I put that carnosa cutting in with the pubicalyx, both plants looked exactly the same to me, though this was a very long time ago. Now the difference is obvious in the foliage, and it looks like the pubicalyx is starting to take over, the carnosa part of the plant looks less healthy every year...I will see if I have a picture to include, I know I posted it somewhere not too long ago but forget where. But, it is an easy mistake to make!
Oh here is a better pic where you can see the carnosa part on the bottom right...the foliage is much paler. This plant is in dire need of repotting, it is in a 6" pot that is just a solid mass of roots, but it just keeps blooming away...
Interesting, so the pubicalyx is squeezing out the carnosa. I wonder if you can separate them by slicing through the roots - maybe the carnosa would regain its health if you did that - meanwhile, it is a beautiful plant.
Ah well, here is where the plot thickens....About 2 years after the creation of the above combo plant, I made another plant from it and both types again wound up in one pot. Remember this was a looong time ago, years before any flowers....anyway, eventually this one bloomed, and then so did the second one, both with the 2 different flower colors.
The second plant was outside 2 yrs ago and we had an untimely frost which damaged it and a few other plants very heavily - in fact, a few never recovered. Combo plant #2 did recover, but never looked good again. This spring I performed a delicate operation with an old steak knife to separate the two, and both are doing fine! Just goes to show how tough hoyas are, the roots where so enmeshed, I didn't know what was what, and butchered alot of the plant in the process. When I was done the separation I had 2 big masses of vines, each with a small carved "block" of roots. I wasn't hopeful, but potted them both up in their own pots, cut off whatever looked dead or ugly, and now both are growing like crazy.
I will probably leave plant #1 as it is, someone told me once that the carnosa would probably be the one to take over, so it will be interesting to see what happens. Probably in the spring I will finally repot it and then maybe the carnosa will regain some strength....For now, I like having the 2 different flowers, but will say it was much prettier when the carnosa was healthier and there wasn't a real obvious difference between the leaves of the two varieties.
Okie Dokie ~ I am not sure what I have but it appears there are three different sets of leaves in this pot. I started this plant and "thought" they were all the same.
On the base of one vine it is primarily green, longer leaves but also has a variegated vine coming off the main plant. This green hoya has the paler bloom.
The other has a different leaf shape more rounded and the veins are more prominent with the darker pink bloom.
In this photo, you can see the veins in the horizontal leaf. The others are a solid green with silver flecks.
I definitely have two different Hoyas here but what and what? And why has a vine reverted to the Krimson princess?
Edited to add ~ not a great shot but hopefully you can see the difference... pod
This message was edited Aug 28, 2007 9:46 PM
OK...gee...here is my 'speech' again...(thank you, David Liddle, for drilling this concept into my little blond brain).....
All of the 'Krimsons' etc. are, first and formost, cultivars of H. carnosa. H. carnosa has been around in cultivation for EVER and are certainly NOT the same specimins that were published as such. Perhaps every 10th household in the US has grown one of them at one time...and given cuttings away...so can you imagine the different environments these plants have been through and how they can have morphed?
To attempt to distinguish between plants by the different color of the new growth, or the width of the margins of variegation or the shade of color of the flowers is a Chinese Puzzle.... H. carnosa 'Rubra' was published as a variegated cultivar...yet it is now, also a solid green....so where are the boundaries?
There aren't any. IMHO.....
H. carnosa (and gang) are basically H. carnosa. Same with H. publicalyx. It seems that these two closely related species love to morph and change....dealers/growers/friends distribute seedlings... there is no control. I grow out seedlings to see if something unusal is produced. I destroy all I do not grow out. IF I share a seedling, I make sure the world knows it is a seedling of H. xxxx. When the 3rd or 4th cutting is distributed by someone who received the seedling, the 'seedling' is dropped. This also pollutes the species. I will no longer 'share' seedlings, nor seeds.
This does NOT diminish their beauty, their charm, their fragrance and the fact that they are hardy and a wonderful plant to grow. I do NOT poo-poo them at all....I have LOTS of H. carnosa and H. pubicalyx. I love them!!!
But I think that it is time to accept the blurring of the different cultivars and consider them as simply a species with lots of variation rather than specific cultivars....
Any thoughts on this????
That sounds really sensible. I love carnosa too, it's so widespread in cultivation for a lot of good reasons. It does get old, though, when every stray clone of it has to be obsessively categorized and analyzed to death. Sort of seems like a detriment to a fine species.
My apologies for making y'all go thru this every time a novice wonders why?
Everyone that enjoys their plants always questions its' heritage... It is not and never will be enough just to say isn't that pretty... Enquiring minds have brought it to this point.
Sorry... pod
This message was edited Aug 29, 2007 7:00 AM
I think in the beginning of her post, Carol was just taking a deep breath because it was a looong speech, not because she is tired of repeating it...no one here is like that, we are all learning and happy to share information...
What she is saying is that this thing with the carnosas is pretty much impossible to figure out, at least not without losing your mind. I have 3 - or is it 4? solid green carnosas, all of them different in foliage and even flower color, one that I have even has major differences in it's own leaves. I have heard the same "speech" she gave several times, and still have trouble grasping some of it....then again, I had trouble in biology with Mendels garden peas experiments and the fundamental principles of genetics and the patterns of inheritance and principles of segregation and independent assortment and blah blah blah.....but the basic idea is that "parents" pass on to their offspring heritable factors (genes) that are responsible for inherited traits....there is a pattern to when those genes show up, but the further you get down the line and the more genes that get mixed in, the more confusing it gets and then I think it becomes less organized and you never know when certain genes are going to show up......
That is the way I understand it, but I could be wrong, and I am sure anyone who is up on genetics will let me know!
Pod, where are you in deep East Texas? I have been to Kirbyville and Jasper many times...family there...
Oh, no Pod, I certainly understand why new growers are curious and excited by the varieties of carnosa, and many are well worth growing. I have several varieties of it and like them all, finding them different.
The difference in flower colors you started the post with is an interesting question and I'm sure many are curious about it.
Its the categorization of the minutiae of each individual plant that becomes wearying. Some less kind people on other forums have called that kind of thing "pointless conversation"- I don't feel that that is necessarily so, but there is no accounting for tastes.
Oh goodness...I didn't mean to come on so strongly... (a good Shiraz will do that to me every time!!). I could ignore it, too...but I feel education is important. I am, by far, NOT a great scholar nor do I know more than anyone else here...but at one time I had a very tough mentor and stuff was pounded into me in not a very nice way so it stuck!!! I also admire David Liddle and his thought processes - especially re: cultivars....,
POD, all questions are GOOD!!!!!
Carol
I think another way of looking at Carol said, or maybe paraphrasing it, is that there are some identifiable cultivars of carnosa (and pubicalyx), but that these plants have been in cultivation so long mutating, hybridizing, and being raised from seed, that it probably isn't possible to identify every plant of carnosa with a specific name, and may make you crazy if you try to do so. Just look at another thread posted now by Brenda about some australis seedlings she raised from seed from one pod. That just shows you how much variation and change can come from just one generation of plants.
So the best i.d. it is possible to get, sometimes, is "some sort of carnosa". That's why I was saying sometimes you have to just enjoy the plant for what it is.
Regarding the variegation, sometimes green plants will just spontaneously put out variegated stems, which is where they came from in the first place. A mutation of some sort. Watch the variegated stem closely- the pattern may be different from the regular 'Krimson Princess', and may be worth cutting off and propagating as its own plant.
HAHAHA...I will admit a VERY stupid question....to David Liddle of all people. It was a photo of a flower and a leaf... turned out to be a solid green form of cv. Rubra. Did I feel foolish!!!? YOU BET!!!