fantail goldfish trouble

I'm not sure if this is the place for this question, but I can't find another suitable forum.

I have a fantail goldfish that I have had for 2 or 3 years now. For the past week or more it has been floating on it's back, it's breathing is very labored, and it can't seem to get to the bottom of the tank. We've cleaned the water and made sure the PH is right.....haven't checked amonia levels, but with a water change we figured they wouldn't be very high. We have been told to stop feeding for a week and then give peas. Well, it hasn't eaten anything for week simply because it can't. Today we put a piece of a pea on a small stick and put it near it's mouth and it sucked the pea in and then spit it out......did that 3 or 4 times. The fish is in a 46 gallon aquarium in the house. After taking the top off and looking at the fish today we could see that one of the fins and part of the underside of the fish is filling with blood. I don't want to see it suffer anymore, but am not sure if there is anything I can do to help it aside from putting it out of it's misery. Any ideas? Thanks!

So sorry to hear of your fish problem!!! It doesn't sound good for the poor thing. Filling with blood? I've not heard of that one.

Jeri

Thank you, Jeri. Yes, where the fin and scales once were orange, they are now red.

It sounds like it could be a bacterial infection. You might try salting the water. 1 TBLS per 5 gallons every twelve hours, 3 times, should give you a .3 percent salinity. You may need antibiotics (not sure which).

Try here:

http://thegab.org/forum/

They're very helpful and know their stuff.

Prickle, thank you. Sorry to get back to you so late, but we went out of town. The fish is still alive and still upside down. We do salt our aquarium when we change the water.....1 TBLS per 5 gallons, but only one time. We will try salting it another 2 times and see what happens and I will check out that website too. Thank you so much!

Fancy goldfish are prone to problems with their swim bladders, which would explain the floating. I don't have an answer for that or the possible bacterial issue, though. We love them, but always had trouble with them in tanks, no matter how closely we watched chemistry and all that stuff. The ones we have out in our outside pond are fine as can be. Figures, huh? I feel for you!

Some have had success in treating swim bladder problems by feeding cooked peas. I have also heard of putting the fish in water just deep enough to have about an inch cover the back. It is said to change the pressure on the bladder and help the fish right itself. I had one large Oranda that always tipped over whenever I did a 50% water change in the aquarium. He would take a day or two to recover. This spring I lost a nice telescope eye in the outside pond to the same problem. As he grew larger and the abdomen got more tennis ball shaped he had more and more difficulty swimming. He got so large that he just bumped around on the pond bottom, but he always managed to come up to eat. Then, the poor thing got sucked up tight to the pump intake. It shredded his side and that was that. Big bellied breeds of goldfish are extremely susceptible to swimming problems. Now I stick to comets, especially the long finned Sarassa comets. Really pretty fish and extremely hardy and sturdy.

Could it be dropsy (a.k.a. pinecone disease)? They swell up and their scales stick out with that. We've never had luck treating for that -- tried courses of antibiotics and the fish sometimes got better for a little while, but got it again. It was never long. Doggone it, anyway!

We have sarassa comets now, too. We like shubunkins, too. I did break down and get a gorgeous calico fantail goldfish that's dark with all kinds of metallic coppery scales. When we get our 55-gallon tank set up and ready, I plan to bring her inside and have a couple sarassa comets in with her.

Hey gardenwife! - I completely forgot about the shubunkins, another great hardy, sturdy fish that is also nice to look at. A Heron ate mine this year. I just replaced them about two weeks ago.

Well, her scales look fine, so I don't think it's dropsy. She is still alive....and still upside down. Poor thing. I think she actually ate something the other day though. Now if only the comet would leave her alone.

Hi mgh .
As I have said on many forums .
I keep Tropical Fish .
I have about 12,000 Live bearers and 600 Gold Fish .
I know that doesn’t make me no Xpurt .
What I have done in your case is put a Hypodermic needle directly into their gut .
all the excess air will escape and they live happily ever after .
Give it a try . What have you got to loose .

That is great to know, Ginger!

Oh my! I'm not sure I could do that. Where would I get a hypodermic needle? Maybe they sell them at the farm store?

I thought I would try to get a pic of Silvie. We did finally figure out why the scales on her belly were turing red. We had the light on over the tank and, since she can't get away from the top of the tank, I think she was getting too hot. We turned the light off and the redness went away.

All chemists have hypodermic needle .
And they will give you one here in OZ .
The needle should enter the fattest roundest part of the abdomen .
Just push it in till you hear the air escaping by it self .
We have lots of needles here for horse use .


The colour thingy sounds like Sun Burn . :o)

Ok, is a chemist the same as a pharmacist here in the US? I am assuming I have to hold the fish to do this? Ok, gotta get over being squeamish about holding a fish. LOL I just keep thinking the pharmacist is going to think I'm druggie if I ask for a needle. LOL

Thank you so much for all the info, Dr. Kell. :o) I promise I will give it a try.

One of my better breeding FM .

And go girl go .

Wow, gorgeous fish! So, do you just reach in and grab the fish, or do you use a net?

Your hands must be fully wet first so you don't damage the scales .
Then I use a net first and roll them onto your wet hand .
And the rest is history as they say .
Did you know we are looking after George Bush at the moment ?

Ok, I will try that method....when I get a needle.

Ok, I'll bite......you're looking after George Bush?

Not me personally , But he in in Australia at the moment for the APEC leaders' summit .

Ok, I had to come in this thread to see what was up with the poor fishy. Then I saw Ginger's recommendation and about flipped, LOL. However, I did some research and found out that he's *exactly* right...but it still flips me out, lol.

Here's a thread on a fishy that was in a condition much like yours. It was taken to the Vet and had the procedure done that Ginger is talking about. Pictures of the procedure are included. Skip to page 4 for pics of Vet performing procedure.

I haven't finished reading the entire thread to see what has happened to the fish...so I don't know how it ends. On page 5 there is even a recommendation for what size syringe and needle to use if you are going to do this yourself.

http://thegab.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8532&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

If your pharmacist isn't moved by a pic of your fish and won't give you a needle and syringe then I'd suggest trying a local farm or a friend who is an EMT. Possibly even call your Vet and explain the situation to them. Anyone who knows you will know you're not a drugie, lol, don't worry. :-)

mgh:
What a nice looking gold fish. I'm so glad you got your answer! For first 15 years of our marriage, we had red-caps and fantails w/ "corries"corydoras?sp? and various strange-looking fishies sucking on side of glass for cleanup. Nice large tanks are a must for goldfish. Then came the travel ... Found happy homes for them.

We enjoyed them so much! They are such "dirty" fish that we found that over-sized tanks and extra filtration was well worth it. Had underground filters with "power jets" on tubes suctioning up water rather than "bubbles". Be careful about putting those on a too-small tank, as it can cause it to be kinda like a whirlpool. And humongous diatom filters -- getting quick connect cut-off valves makes filter changing so much less painful. My husband was fastidious about water testing. My job was looking and keeping hands off (I liked to overfeed), and saving old pantyhose and washing them out -- ready for him to use for putting carbon and ammonia-sorb into. Much easier to change out filter if you can just yank that out and no little pieces of old filter media falling all over the place.

A pristine tank will go far to keep down those little nasties in the tank which can cause those swim-bladder issues. Also, a quarantine tank for all new fishies (and sick fishies) is a great idea, if you can afford the space. If you notice your oopsy daisy upside down fish having it's tail suddenly look ragged, you may want to isolate it, as the other fish sometimes nibble on the "sick" fish's tail-- the first time I saw that happen I did not have an isolation tank and that darling had my largest punchbowl as a home (w/ aerator stone) until I could get down to the petstore. (ooh goodness, don't tell any party guests that). Unfortunately, once a fish succumbed to this, they seemed to get relapses on occasion. The red-caps seemed to be more prone to it. Was told once that it was due to abnormal body shape affecting location of internal organs (don't know how true that is).

As your fish get larger, make sure that the stones on the bottom keep pace with size -- several times we had to extract rocks w/ tweezers, cause they got lodged in mouths.

Good Luck, MaryS

A little info on swim bladders in general and the many problems that can go wrong.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_3/cav3i3/swim_bladders/swim_bladders.htm

Thank you for all the info, everyone! I skimmed that thread for the pics. I also saw them talking about the gauge of the needle they used. Do you think a needle that a diabetic uses would be big enough? I don't know what size they are, but I know someone I can get one from.

Well, last weekend my fish sank to the bottom of the tank. She is still alive and still on her back, but she is now at the bottom of the tank. I thought maybe this was a good sign, so I haven't done anything with her swim bladder yet.

MGH, I just got a catalog from Drs Foster & Smith last week and in it they sell needles and syringes just like what you would need...and they are very inexpensive. Hope that helps if you decide to go forward with your fish surgery. Good luck.
Heather

I saved many a fish with old-fashioned salt bath. Your fish might have a parasite. You simply add 1 teaspoon of table salt(not iodized) for each gallon of water and it is better to quarantine a sick fish all by itself. Add the same amount of salt that night and twice the next day,again in the morning and at night. If the fish is not improving by the third or fourth day, add 1 more teaspoon of salt each day. On the ninth and tenth days, make progressive water changes and check for results.

If this doesn't work, there is a product called Melafix. It is made from Tea Plant extract and it might cure your fish.

Good Luck, Lucille