What's wrong with my CG?

Hello All.

Starting about a week ago, one of my beloved large Charles Grimaldis started dropping lots of healthy green leaves. Every day there is a noticeable pile of leaves, mostly older ones but some younger as well, at the base of the plant. The leaves are perfect - bright green, flawless.

Tonight I noticed a problem with the main, woody branches. Please see the attached pic (I apologize for it being slightly out of focus). Note the "furrows" or "rips", as if the bark didn't grow fast enough to accommodate the plant and thus split. These cover at least half the woody part of the plant now.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the problem is here? The plant is about three years old and has always grown and bloomed vigorously. It's also still putting out new growth and buds. The only change to its care lately is that we have had nearly a week of constant, heavy rain. The whole world seems soggy and humid.

Any comments will be appreciated. Thank you.

Erick

My Dr Suess did that last year and I got rid of it... the entire trunk ended up splitting in spots all the way around.. then there were "ulcers" on the branches. The leaves would hang straight down one by one and turn yellow till they were almost all gone.
Here is the thread I started on it. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/669959/

Uh oh - do these things do this when they get older? Because I'm wanting to get large fat tree trunks out of mine!!

UGH ...

The black areas remind me of virus pictures Monika posted on one of the other brug. forums. I would isolate this plant until you have had time to research further.

Tussee

Darn it, Im sorry Erick. I too would at the very least isolate it, if not just toss the brug, pot, soil and all just to be safe.

Awww wow.

Erick, I believe the trunk damage is just from too much moisture. It doesn't look like disease to me. If there were black-ish looking bruises at the leaf nodes, then I'd be concerned.
You can either leave it alone, and live with the "ugly" bark, or cut the whole plant back, and it will grow back. You can root the cuttings if you'd like.
Also, I'd go ahead and fertilize it, and maybe repot it, making sure you have REAL good draining soil, using perlite.
HTH,
Teresa

I don't think it's viral, either. Mosaic virus that I've seen on the internet is more weird ugly growths and leaf deformity.... I think it has to do with too much water... maybe too much fertilzer or a combo... I wouldn't pitch it yet, maybe keep away from your other brugs if possible until you know for sure.

Thank you all very much for the most helpful advice and commentary. I can always count on help from the folks in this forum!

After careful consideration of all the feedback, my plan is to isolate my plant for ahwile and keep a close eye on it. If it doesn't improve soon, it will be destroyed.

Teresa, I thought it seemed too coincidental that as soon as we started getting day after day of heavy rain, the bark started acting up. I think you may be onto something. At least I have hope!

Thank you all again,

Erick

AuntB, we were posting at the same time!

Thank you for most helpful feedback as always. I will take your advice!

Erick

Hi Eric,

I think I may have the same problem with my weis pousanne I just posted on the brug forum too. mine's a little different looking than yours, but splitting none the less.

It does't look like Viral as in mosaic or SB. But it does look like a viral infection, but (my opinion only) one I don't know about. and perhaps in mine too. Looks like what teresa said, too much moisture. I'm guessing weather may have something to do with mine. My damage isn't at the trunk but on 2 of the stems after it had y'd off. You should dump yours though, as I doubt it will go away. It does'n't look good at all.

I broke the stems offmine and took pictures of them, that was the only places affected on the plant, not at the base like yours is.

I'm definitely going to watch this thread, as we are seeing more of this on brugs these days. Seems newer problems are always popping up.

Okay, guys, Kathy, you're making me paranoid. lol I'm going to get out the magnifying glass when I get home today. See if there's anything I haven't seen before... We've had such high temps, it means watering a lot - sometimes 3X a day for the brugs... I'd still isolate it and see what we can learn before I'd destroy the plant.

I really doubt that your problem will spread to other plants, but it is wise to isolate it. if your not going to dump it. Sorry AuntB formaking you paranoid LOL

When I first started raising brugs I was a paranoid freak. Worried so much what will take my brugs away from me. I know all plants come with their own diseases. But seems it takes our brugs away from us faster than other diseases take other plants.

I have had l05 temps here, and some brugs are in afternoon shade. And I have never in my life watered 3 times a day. Once if their lucky a day. on most days. Everyonce in a while I may have to skip a day becuase of too much other things going on. Seems liketoo much watering, just my opinion, and toomuch water does cause problem s for brugs, It's always a good idea to give your brugs the once over once a week or so, to look for suspicious activity on all the limbs and bases.

Too, ifyou have a small brug in a very large pot, It's going to stay wetter and doesn't need water as much as it would if it were in a small pot. It's nice to have them in large pots so you don't have to water daily, but too, they get too much water more often if their in large pots, cause your thinking? this is dry cause it looks dry, and the plant is wilty. Wilt is cause from heat just as much as lack of water, ifnot more. Dig down into the soil to see if the soil is wet, ormoist, before you stick the hose to it. If it's moist andyou still have a wilty brug, then it's the heat causing it, and it will spring back up in the evening andmorning. Becareful over watering. It's worse on a brug than not enough water is.

My humble opinion only. ASk my poor wilty brugs LOL

Erick, I would guess a moisture issue as well. Check the base of the trunk right at the soil level (or just under the soil, even) for signs of rot. Sometimes, though, it will still look "ok", but if it's still early, the roots will still be rotting and it just hasn't gotten to the trunk yet. I've had a few fully "established" brugs rot this year because of all the rain we had in July (I swear, every day I kept expecting an email or something telling me to build an ark and start collecting two of everything). If that is the case, you can possibly still save it by cutting it off at the base, but above the rot (painful, I know) and sticking the whole thing in a new pot of well draining soil. I've rooted whole large branches and even full size trunks before. Need to do it while it's still warm, though!

This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 4:11 PM

Dr Suess & Jamie both started that again this year. It started as those splits in the trunk... then it got ugly ulcers on the branches and started loosing leaves. They never got the black spots around the nodes, but it was tooo unsightly and it made me nervous that it would spread, so I'm done with yellow suaves.. I love em, but I don't want them any more.
I have around 85 other brugs this year and no problems like that from any of them.. over watered, under watered, fertilizer, abuse, pampered it hasn't made any difference... the trunks never have done that other than on the only yellow suaves..

Wow, thank you all for the additional great advice. I really enjoy reading about all of your experiences and digesting your advice. I didn't have much time to spend in the garden today, but I did notice that my plant has stopped dropping leaves and is holding - and even further developing - its buds. We finally had a dry day today, so that may have something to do with it. Nonetheless, the plant remains isolated and will be watched carefully over the coming days. Unless it improves dramatically very soon, it will be tossed.

Carter, thanks for the laugh! Having so much rain here the past two weeks has made me realize - to a small extent, and nothing like you in the south have experienced - just how miserable way too much rain can be.

Erick

I have never seen that condition before, Erick. Does look like it is now so susceptible to any disease that wanders past it as its first line of defense (bark) is gone. I bet it soon catches a fungus esp if it is so damp and warm there.

If it is in a pot, I would turn it on its side so no more rain can get in. I have done that in the winter here in our rainy season. I flip them all on their side and leave them like that for days. No more rain would get in.

Good luck Erick!

Thank you, Kell, for the helpful comments. It's always nice to hear from you. I took your advice and turned the pot on its side - just in time before we got another drenching rain!

The plant has totally stopped dropping leaves and looks better today. But it remains isolated and on serious probation!

Erick

I thought it was cold damage on mine .
Had 3 branches close to ground , one had it and I cut it about 6 inches below .
Other 2 are flowering now .

I get that from cold damage, too, I just assumed it wouldn't have gotten cold enough to do that this time of year (like, protected but around 32 degrees, or slightly above 32 for an extended period (more than a few hours)).

It could also be temperer shock .
Spraying a plant that is in 80 degree sun with 50 degree well water -
My brother's wife came home , plants were wilted , started watering with well water , by the time she go to corner of yard - hose had cooled down and water was cold enough to crack a glass pot .
Later the plants in that area showed frost- burnt leaf edges problems .

You make some good points tonyjr and Carter. Thank you.

I believe that I have solved this mystery, and it does have something to do with all the rain we got a couple weeks ago.

I noticed a few days ago that, just below where the stem was splitting and cracking, an old piece of garden twine was VERY tightly tied around the stem, and was even cutting into it. As the plant grew, the twine didn't stretch, and therefore the twine essentially "girdled" the plant. My guess is that the outer bark didn't get enough nourishment while the rest of the plant was growing with all the water. That caused the outer bark to crack.

I removed the twine promptly. Now, several days later, the stem is nearly completely healed, the plant is re-leafing out, and I'll have blooms in a few days! It looks very healthy again.

Thank you all, once again, for all the great advice and commentary. I learned alot, and really appreciate the help.

Regards,

Erick

That is so cool Erick, I'm so glad your plant is okay and didn't suffer any ill affects of my paranoid worries. LOL I am too quick to throw out a plant that can be replaced.. it's my over-protective-brug-seedling-mommy coming out!

"My guess is that the outer bark didn't get enough nourishment while the rest of the plant was growing with all the water. That caused the outer bark to crack."

You have got a good point, Erick. We have had extreme much rain here this summer and I have a few Angelstrumpets that started reacting that way. The bark could simply not follow the growth speed of the inner stem. At first the cracks were like open sores and you could see the inner green layer, but about two months later the cracks were covered by new bark. Today the only signs of the cracks are the elliptic points, where the bark lay a bit lower than the bark on the rest of the plants.

I will try to take a photo later.

ZZsBabiez, thank you. Your input is always appreciated. It goes me things to think about and check into!

Tonny, thank you for sharing your interesting observations. My "cracks" looked exactly as you have described. Even after just a week or so, the new bark has filled them in nicely. Another Brugmansia learning experience!

Erick

I think we all got a good lesson from your experience... I'm just happy you don't have to pitch the plant! Thank you, Eric!

Even tho I don't like miracle grow , I do use sometimes for foliar feeding . When this happened , I had just bought 100 packets of mighty plant here so - I gave her 4 packages and the plants were OK .
Anytime something happens , broken branches - sun / wind burnt leaves , wilted leaves - bugs - I spray at night / early evening with mighty plant or another foliar spray . I have a 100 foot hose with a shut off valve on end . Leave hose in sun full of water . When I spray , I stop when hose gets cold / cool .
Leaving hose in sun help to take out twists when I coil it up .
Kind of like eating a candy bar and/or drinking a soda for us .

Tonyjr, I never would have thought about it like that.... a Brug Snack :) to tide them over, until their next "meal".