I used to used Supersoil but they have changed the mixture. I started using Miracle Grow potting mix but I'm not too happy with that either. I've also used cactus mix which I liked in the past because it is well draining but my cactus mix was changed, too (what's up with all the soil changes? :-/ ) So I was wondering what different plumeria growers use and what they prefer. Also, has anyone tried chicken manure and if so, what was your result. btw, I've noticed that my kangaroo paws do best underneath my bird feeders. So maybe that's were I should move my plumerias :-)
Jackie
What potting soil are you using?
I have used SunGro's Sunshine Mix #4 for a few years now. It comes in 3.8-cubic-foot bales. It drains exceptionally well. It drains so fast that, this year, I switched to SunGro's Sunshine Mix #5, which has a finer peat and finer perlite in it. It still seems like it dries out too fast. It is hard to re-wet once it dries too. So, I started mixing coir and bark into the mix for added water-retention. I am thinking about buying a pallet of coconut husk bark chips to mix in from now on as well; although, I think I'm almost done with re-potting for this year. The coconut husk chips are supposed to last for many years before decomposing.
I do have a 50-lb bag of dried pellets of chicken manure that I bought for my tomatoes, but I only put in two tomato plants this year so I have a lot left over so I did sprinkle it on to the tops of the potting soil, but most of my plumerias are in containers so I was a little hesitant to do that. Organic matter and manure generally isn't good to use in container plants because of salt build up, etc. But since I had it, I sprinkled it lightly here and there. The nutrients are probably very little so it can't hurt and might even help a little. I use MiracleGro fertilizer too on a regular basis.
Hi Clare! lol I had been meaning to tell you that the #4 (or was it #5?) is a plug mix- a very fine medium that, I don't think is ever used for anything but plugs. Plug sheets are these very small holes that need that fine mix to fill the holes. The holes are about .5" x .5" . My plug sheets have 288 holes per flat. I was taking a break one day, sitting on the bales and read the back of one and saw that, and said to myself-I need to tell Clare because I knew you had said that you had gotten it. I use # 1 and I think that is the mix that most growers use for potted plants. I add extra perlite to it for drainage and thats all that I use for plumerias. I do have to water everyday with that mix, but in the winter time, I should be in great shape for not having too wet a medium when it is cooler.
If you want to add a fiber to the mix-I would think about CHC instead of coir. Coconut husk chips do last a long time. Stressbaby wrote a great thread on it http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/607678/
Jackie-what is in the cactus medium? What don't you like about it? Are you wanting a faster draining medium or one that retains more water? I don't ever use any "soil" in my mixes. Doesn't drain fast enough for me in the winter, but not sure if you have that problem
i use nature's way cactus and palm mix and add pumice (ratio 2:1).
the ingredients are: bark mulch, lava sand, humus, peat moss, blood meal, bone meal, kelp meal, fish meal, dried poultry compost, cottonseed meal, alfalfa meal and calcium rock phosphate.
i soil retains moisture well but does not stay wet. i water no more than 2x a week in sunny, hot arizona.
Hi Terry! Thanks for that info. I mostly used the #4 (Aggregate Plus) in previous years and only switched to #5 (Plug) this year. I know #5 is a plug mix, but I really like it. Here's a link: http://www.sungro.com/products_displayProProduct.php?product_id=13&brand_id=1 It still drains well but stays a little more moist due to the higher peat percentage. It also has less clumps that break up more easily, and you know how I hate clumps! LOL! I actually did try a bale of #1, and it was very nice. Most of this #5 is being used to pot well-rooted plumerias into 15-gallon containers, and their rootballs contain #4 so I'm not worried about rot so much this winter unless we get record numbers in inches of rain and cold temps -- then I might worry! LOL!
You are right about the CHC instead of the coir. In fact, I became sold on CBC after reading Robert's thread on it. I even copied and pasted the information and pictures and sent it to my farm supply guy who didn't know what I was talking about. I may have to buy it by the pallet, but I might just do that. Another grower recommended that I try "Turf-N-Tee," which is what I used to amend my soil in my front yard. He says that someone he knows plants his plumerias in it, and they just thrive.
The Cactus mix I use used to have more sand and better drainage, less soil. They seem to have increased the amount of soil. It's too much like regular potting mix, imo. Palms (which we collect mostly) need good draining as well as lots of organic material. Usually, I mix the mix with additional pearlite which is what I also did when repotting a plumeria a few days ago.
We just picked up some Miracle Grow Moisture Control. I need to repot a 5 gal plumeria into a much larger pot so I thought I would give this a try. I may add some pearlite to that.
Also just picked up Vigoro Bloom Builder with 10-52-10 analysis for already potted plumerias and other flowering plants. Unfortunately, the Vigoro does not contain magnesium.
I just dropped by our neighborhood locally owned nursery and picked up their tropical mix potting soil and will be returning the Miracle Grow moisture control. They have a display of dozens of information sheets about growing all kinds of plants. One sheet is growing Plumeria. This is what the sheet says about the right soil:
(quote)
Easy to grow in the proper soil. We recommend a soil containing significant amounts of soil, sand, pumice, and peat moss. Avoid any other organic soil amendments which soon decompose into a non-porous sludge-like material. In containers our Laguna Hills Nursery Tropical Potting Soil is fine. Best bloom in full sun. Needs heat to perform well. Plumeria performs well with most all-purpose fertilizers. We prefer organic fertilizers. Hardy to about 25 degrees F.
Currently we do not approve of the soil that most of our wholesale growers use as it usually contains high amounts of sawdust and/or ground bark. In this state the plants are easier to kill. We recommend carefully removing all the grower's soil, even during the growing season, and replace it with our recommended soil. Use a sharpened pencil or any similar size stick to carefully probe and loosen the growers soil. Take care to break down large pieces of "soil" into smaller chunks. Large chunks will amputate significant sections of the roots as they fall away. Don't be surprised if the root system is quite small. When most of the soil is off, the remaining soil can be removed quickly with a stream of water. Install this 'naked' Plumeria into a container or in the ground using care to carefully replace the soil around the roots while holding the plant straight. Water immediately 3-5 times to make certain there are no dry pockets. During warm weather, the plant should be shaded for the next 2 weeks while the roots recover. When the soil is correct, growth is much quicker with larger, more evergreen foliage.
(end quote)
Looks like I'm going to be repotting some plants and not just plumeria. I miss my old cactus mix. But looks like I've found a replacement.
Here is a longer and more in-depth article on soils from their website:
http://lagunahillsnursery.com/menuwebs/g1aas.asp
Which includes this statement:
Above all do not make the situation worse. Avoid amending the soil with anything that can decompose. Decaying material consumes oxygen. For a while the organic matter’s size and shape may allow airflow. Eventually the decomposing organic matter no longer has enough structure to create porosity and the oxygen level drops. Decomposition under low oxygen levels creates acids and anaerobic decomposition creates sewer gasses. These sewer gasses are deadly to roots and turn the soil black and smelly. You’ve just created a “landfill” quite unsuitable to most plants. At best, soil amended with organic mulches stunts plant growth and causes off-color foliage. At worst it kills.
The entire article is worth checking out.
Jackie
Does anyone here use Seasoil?
http://www.seasoil.com/
Edited to add a link
This message was edited Aug 19, 2007 6:42 PM
Jackie, I agree with what they say about C-Star's mix. It is terrible. It stays very wet, but their greenhouses get well over 100 in the summer so they use a very wet mix. When I visited their warehouses, I could see some cuttings rotting, and I've also seen them rotting at Home Depot. When I bought from them a couple of years ago, I did replace their mix because I didn't like it. I also agree with what they say about adding organic matter to the mix -- not a good idea.
I'm not sure that I like the Laguna mix either to tell you the truth. Sand and peat hold water, and according to Dete, pumice holds water too; although, how much water pumice holds is debatable (wave to Dete). I'm not sure what they mean by soil, but as Terry said, I much prefer a soil-less mix.
Plumerias will be killed at sustained temps lower than 32 so their figure of 25 is wrong.
I also would put the plumerias right into full sun. Their recommendation of shade for two weeks is completely unnecessary and could actually be detrimental.
Thanks for sharing that link. I'll check it out.
Thanks, Clare. Actually, we bought 4 bags of their soil and I like it a lot. It's more like the old Cactus mix I used to get which worked great and I liked it a lot. Last night, my husband and I repotted the large Kauka Wilder into about a 25 gal clay pot (to allow moisture to seep through) and it's got a pretty big hole in the bottom. I watered it thoroughly about three times and it was rapidly trickling out the bottom. I have put bark mulch on the top to slow down evaporation from the top.
As far as their use of the term "soil", I think they are using "soil" in some instances as a generic term for planting medium. Their "soil" consists of sand, pumice (not sure what kind) and peat, finely ground. I just took a look at my cactus mix that I've been unhappy with and this is the ingredients list: Aged and processed softwood bark and sawdust, sphagnum peat moss, pumice sand and compost.
No wonder I wasn't happy with it. I wonder if they list it like food items where the list starts with the majority ingredient is listed first and least amount ingredient listed last
My husgand and I (also last night) separated and repotted two plumerias that I rooted from cuttings last year. They broke off from a larger plant so I just stuck them (there was a third) in a pot and forgot about them. One rotted but the other two rooted and look very healthy. By this a.m., they weren't happy about their transplant, so I removed some lower leaves. They took quite a beating with the separating and repotting. But I'm a bit nervous about putting them in the hot sun we have right now. We finally got summer! I used Miracle Grow plant starter and Super Thrive on all of them (my usual formula I've had great success with in growing difficult plants). I'm crossing my fingers that they make it.
What do you think about the Vigoro 10-52-10 I plant to use in a couple of weeks or so on the repotted plumerias?
Jackie
Clare, I forgot to add, the 25 degree temp they mention imo isn't referring to sustained. At least I don't think so. I've left my plumerias out for years and twice now we've reached temps down to 27-28 and my plumerias came through it fine (was not sustained, only for a few hours at night for less than 3 nights at a time). We've also had temps in the low 30's (30-32) at night over several days and I have not lost plumerias.
that's good to hear jackie. i experimented with leaving them out last year. they actually did fine with many nights in the low 30s. i attribute that to giving them full sun all day so that the soil temps were not as cold at night. then came the freeze in janary 2007. it was not a pretty sight! i only have two that went down to 26 w/o any problems. you can bet that these have a special place in my collection now. LOL
We have a lot of border-line palms and even some that "shouldn't have made it" last winter that have survived below 32 degrees into the 20's but we made sure they were well hydrated. Hydration can be touchy because too much in the winter will also kill the palm. We have a temperature monitoring system that monitors our front yard, our side yard (it's a courtyard) and our backyard. Temperatures can vary as much as five degrees in these three locations during the summer (shade temps) and about two degrees in winter (night). Right now, it's 95 in my front yard, 89 in my side yard, and 91 in my back yard with big variations in humidity.
Last winter, for our risky palms, we kept spot lights on them throughout the night for three nights of temps in the 20s. We were lucky. Lots of palm collectors lost lots of palms, many rare. We did not lose any because of the weather. We lost one months earlier because of root damage. Sometimes it takes months to know if you have lost a palm. Everything is mulched to protect it from the heat in the summer and cold in the winter.
Jackie, if you are happy with your mix, that is great.
That Superthrive should help with any transplant shock your plants experience. Vitamin B-1 (which is probably what Superthrive contains) helps also. Believe me, heat and sun is the best thing for their recovery. I cannot say enough about how heat helps plumerias to recover from all that ails them. It is important that your new transplants become acclimated to their new environment before cold weather sets in in the fall.
A balanced fertilizer is recommended for plumerias. The high middle number in Bloomboosters is oftentimes wasted and not able to be used by the plant. I usually stop fertilizing in September and recommend a spring-to-fall fertilizing regimen because new growth is especially sensitive to cold and can be damaged easily. Here's a link about fertilizer from the FAQ's Sticky Thread that I just updated: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/692567/
I think you were really lucky not to lose your trees at those low temps. I know lots of people who did lose their trees at those temps -- big ones too. A plumeria business in Corona had devastating damage and loss this past winter, and a grower in Covina did too. Microclimates can account for a lot of protection so I suspect you have some microclimates in your favor which raised the temps surrounding your plumerias. I would never recommend that anyone expose their plumerias to temps lower than 33.
Thanks for the info on the fertilizers, Clare. I have done as you suggested and moved the plumerias into the sun. I did have them on the patio but I think it was getting too hot for them there (this is before the repotting) as the leaves were looking burned. That and what the nursery said caused me to put them in the shade. But what you say makes sense.
I'm in an elevated position and we get good air circulation here. Also, my backyard faces west-southwest. Our front yard is protected by a slope on the north side. Our zone is 10a. My plumerias were under a canopy of other plants. But I have seen yards with large exposed plumerias in the ground in Anaheim and Westminster that had obviously been there for years. Are some plumerias more cold-hardy than others?
We are members of the local palm society and toured a home recently in Anaheim Hills with a well established plumeria garden. They are located in a colder zone than we are. Here is a picture of a couple of their plumerias....
Though the homeowners had plumerias throughout the yard, they did have a plumeria garden....
One of their plumerias (I don't know the name but I'm sure someone here will know... it kind of looks like Kauka Wilder to me, but then many of them look the same to this novice :-) ):
This message was edited Aug 21, 2007 8:14 AM
Jackie, that flower looks like 'Teresa Wilder,' but it is difficult to make a correct identification from a photo. I've seen that very same terraced yard in pictures as recently as a week ago. On August 12th, Kathy, Dete, Dewaine, and Carol and some others toured that yard during a party hosted by a plumeria collector named Viv. I think they are neighbors of Viv's, and those pictures were just posted on some of the other forums. It looks like a very nice house with some nice plumerias. I think someone said that there is protection above also.
Yes, it is true that plants overhead are great protectors. They hold in heat and shield from frost. None of my plumerias, brugmansias, or other tropicals had damage where there was a tree overhead. Microclimates can raise the surrounding temps quite a bit and allow trees to survive in areas where they wouldn't otherwise. Concrete, stone, brick, buildings, houses, water, overhead trees, streets, street lights, and anything that retains and/or radiates heat will all create microclimates. I talk about this in my article: http://davesgarden.com/guides/articles/view/45/ I have a six-foot brick retaining wall, aluminum siding on the house, three-quarter rock gravel, and lots of cement and concrete nearby -- all of which help to raise the air temp around the plants at night. That is why some trees can tolerate colder temps and some can't. A tree out in the open exposed air, planted in the middle of a lawn with mulch will suffer more than a tree planted in the ground with no mulch against a cement building. Mulch is a whole different subject, but it actually isn't beneficial for plumerias planted in the ground in our zone. Whether or not some cultivars are more tolerant to cold is debatable, but this is being studied all the time. Some certainly do appear to be more resiliant than others.
I'm glad that you moved your plants to full sun, but it is odd that your plants experienced some burn on the leaves while on the patio. The leaves shouldn't be burning by the heat or sun unless they are being underwatered. Some burn is caused by fertilizer and/or organic matter in the soil.
Here are plumerias at Hungtington Library in Pasadena that gets *far* colder than we do (scroll down to mid page):
http://www.huntingtonbotanical.org/WhatsInBloom/sept06/Page1.html
That plumeria garden is fully exposed with the few queens you can see behind them (here's a taller picture). The shadows being cast over some of the plumerias are from the morning sun. After that, they are in full sun. The really large plumeria I showed (same house) is full sun exposure, no tree canopy over it, either. I think these are things worth observing. The palm society makes note and keeps records because there are many new palms being introduced into not only our area but this country and many palms they believed would not tolerate freezing temperatures have survived. It's an interesting puzzle and worth looking into further. From the list of all the exceptions you gave, it would appear that it's possible to grow plumerias in many places outside their "official" zone.
Maybe the leaf burn is due to the old potting soil which *did* contain organic material and repotting them will make the difference. I really really did not like that stuff. I think my plants don't, either. And not just the plumerias.
I only use time release pellets but I bought the Vigoro (mix with water) to see if my plumerias that are not producing flowers, will. Now that we are finally getting some heat, though, that should help.
it's a small world after all. LOL i was just there jackie weekend before last. her palms are beautiful aren't they? that pretty much goes for her whole property. do you grow bismarkia palms? i have about 20 one year old seedlings growing right now. they sure are neat!
you can get away with much more when plumeria are grown in the ground in arizona. getting those roots in the ground can make the difference in our hot, dry climate.
We were there July 21. They seem to be having the same problem we are.... wanting more palms but needing open space so the sun can get to the flowers. Did you notice her plumeria garden was next to her tennis court.... one of the few open areas she had other than the side yard with all the succulents and huge plumerias.
I guess it's a smaller world when you are discussing tropicals. Plumeria and palms just "fit together" :-) What do you do with your plumerias in the winter because I know it gets colder where you are than where I am.
Clare, the homeowner's name is Lorraine (if that helps).
Well, I'm off to return the two recent plumeria purchases I picked up that are from C star. I have such limited sun space that I want to get plumerias from a grower that is making every effort to prevent the splash virus from infecting their crop.
Yes, those palms overhead at both the Huntington and the private yard do help to give some protection. The trees don't actually have to be directly overhead to provide some protection. The private yard also has concrete nearby which also adds to the microclimate. There are some trees in Zone 9b which have survived in places like Arizona and Louisiana, but they usually are against a brick or concrete building and have some overhead protection, and even then, they can suffer some branch damage during freezes if not covered. Since these are expensive plants, I would never encourage someone outside of Zone 10 to try this as it would surely cause loss and disappointment after a few days of frost. If people are to grow plumerias outside their hardiness zone, they should be brought inside during the winter or protected. To many people, their plumerias are investments that need protection.
Yes, Lorraine was there when Dete and the group went. It is a lovely property. Ah, tennis court = heat for plumies;-)
Clare, here's the thread I started in the palm foum with pictures of the tours of the three homes. I didn't include many pictures of anything other than palms because, well, it's the palm forum and I wasn't sure if they wanted to see them :-). The second home was a real riot. He's been working on it for 14 years. Huge project. Fun to see but a bit too much jungle for me though I can completely understand why he would want to do that. However, he did have two lots and the second was reserved for open space but I don't recall any plumerias.
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/753002/
If you look closely at the close-up photo I posted of the plumeria, you can see the tennis court in the background. Maybe that suggests that I can plant plumerias along my street :-)
i thought that tennis court was on the other side of the grass from the plumeria.
Jackie, the street gives off lots of heat, but that would make them vulnerable to theft also.
You are correct. The plumeria did not line up next to the tennis court. I would guess they were about 30 feet away with a walkway, grassy area and cabana between.
Tuscon, I forgot to add, yes, I have a Bismarckia. Along with lots of other palms. Here's a picture with it in there but it's kind of hard to see. It is in the background above the birdbath. I'd have more of them but that's all the room we are going to have for any Bismarckias :-)
