I have 8 (yeah, just starting out) plumies. Seven are doing great, with beautiful leaves, growing fast, all that good stuff, but this one. Any clue what's wrong with this? Rust, maybe? Stress from the unusual 100+ degree weather?
Thanks much for your help!!
here's a picture of the entire plant....
Indiana_lily, where did you get that plant? That is typical of the color-break virus. Did you spray any oil or insecticide on the plant while in full sun? That could also be the cause. Those pebbles that you have in the base of the plants could very easily cause burn at the soil line to the stem of the plumeria. People in Texas and Arizona have lost plants due to desiccation by using those pebbles. I don't ever recommend for anyone to use those pebbles for that reason. Besides, it is hard to tell when the soil is dry, and it actually keeps in moisture.
Indiana_lily, in my opinion, this is a typical symptom caused by virus which also cause color break on flowers. Unlike sunburn, the plant cells at that particular area of the leaves are not damaged and the mottles (symptom) will normally become lighter and lighter with leaf maturity. Please take photos of the leaves to show us the development of the symptom.
Clare to the rescue!! :)
Ok, Thailand would be the source of the plumie (cringe). And no, it was not a broken color plumie that I purchased. The leaves did not start out this way, only in the last week or so did this happen; when we hit over 100 degrees for 3 days in a row.
No oil or insecticides were sprayed on the plant in full sun. The only thing it has received is Peter's 20-20-20 early in the morning, along with my brugs.
As for the pea gravel, I used that according to the planting instructions I received with the rooted cutting. And, you're right, it is very hard to tell whether the soil is wet or dry with the gravel there. I'll remove the gravel first thing in the morning!!
Again, thanks Clare, and thank you Kukiat.
I've now moved this away from everything else -- quarantine, if you will. Kukiat, I'll definitely take pictures as this plant progresses.
Had I wanted a plumeria with the color break virus, I would have asked for one. However, I grow a lot of brugmansias, which I know are affected by this color break virus, and I would never have compromised my brugs for a "splash" plumeria.
Now, to contact the seller of the plumeria.
That's interesting. So with the color-break virus, it even shows up in the leaves? I didn't know that. Let's hope it doesn't continue to spread. (Oops! Controversial comment)
Felicia, I know that Plumerias101 recommends the pea gravel, and it makes me cringe. I'm glad you'll be removing it. I'm also glad that Kukiat confirmed my suspicion because he knows his stuff when it comes to viruses and horticulture in general. It is not surprising that you received a plant with a virus from Thailand. There are many there, and Kukiat works really hard to keep it out of his collection. Not everyone is so careful as he is. Here is a variegated one with the virus that Kukiat captured at a nursery in Thailand. You can see it has the same spots as yours.
BDunn, I agree! Let's hope...
Indiana_lily, What do you really mean when you said "The leaves did not start out this way"? This is an important information since symptom on the leaves caused by (CB) virus normally develops right from the start as the leaves emerge. If the symptom develops on normal mature leaves then it might be due to something else.
BTW if one buy a plumeria with no sign of virus, it does not necessarily mean it is free of CB causing virus.
Clare that leaf is gorgeous!
I love it!
Yes I love my pure uninfected plumies but also love the infected ones too.
Kukiat,
As the leaves emerged, they were a healthy green. But, during the last week or so, when temperatures reached 100+ degrees, all the leaves developed this discoloration. There's one leaf that is starting to emerge, so I will definitely pay attention to it to see if it emerges as green, or discolored.
Could the discoloration possibly be something else since it did not show itself right away? Or could stress have brought out CB?
Thanks so much for your help!
Felicia
Felicia, I've only seen such discoloration on emerging leaves. The symptom remained on the leaves when they matured but it got lighter in color and changed its pattern somehow. Strong sunlight and heat can also get the color darker. This same FMV can cause both leaf malformation/discoloration and color break on flowers.
As for the CB (due to virus) on flowers, it is already there once the flowers emerge as well. I have never seen CB (due to virus) developed on one day old (or older) flowers (except for the case of the CB may be more intense in color because of stronger sunlight and heat). The CB that developed later on mature leaves are normally due to other causes such as insect or chemicals and its patterns are different as compared to those caused by virus.
Felicia, It is interesting to see the new leaf that is starting to emerge. However, new leaf from FMV infected plumeria may discolor or be healthy green as seen in the attached pic.
picture below shows a new leaf with symptom of virus.
Thanks for posting these pictures, Kukiat, and for the information. I was wondering the same thing as Felicia if maybe heat stress could produce this pattern on the leaves, but now I know that mature leaves won't develop this pattern, but maybe this is a case where the pattern was faint before and heat brought it out. Maybe it was so light before that it went unnoticed.
It sounds like there are a lot of variables here. Maybe it is just heat stessed, or maybe a virus was present before, but with stress from extreme heat and sun, the virus became visible.
Is there a possibility that this is just stress related and not a virus?
Just from the heat? No, I don't think so. Those look like dead cells within the leaves themselves.
Ok. I just wanted a confirmation that I am indeed virused. The seller is bending over backwards to rectify the problem, not that he can do anything now. I think my second plumie may be virused as well, however, I could not take a picture that shows up the inconsistencies of the leaf color, because it is very faint.
The last thing I want to do is falsely accuse someone of selling me a virused plant. And, I know in a lot of cases, it is very hard to determine whether or not a plant is virused by a picture and nothing else to go by.
Indiana_lily, did you have any wet, humid weather prior to the 100+ degree weather? Why has everyone ruled out rust?
Is this plant separated from the others? While it is only 1 out 8 plants, some plumerias are resistant to rust, i.e., Singapores.
Joe, we didn't say was rust because we know what rust looks like, and that ain't it!
Felicia, you are right that it is difficult to tell before, and Kukiat indicated that, if it appeared later on a perfectly healthy leaf, then it probably isn't a virus. Kukiat has a Phd and is the most knowledgeable horticulturist that I know, and I would go by anything and everything that he says. I think you might take a wait-and-see attitude with this one. Keep us posted;-)
"Joe, 'we' didn't say was rust because we know what rust looks like, and that ain't it!"
Well, excuse me for asking such a dumb question.
This message was edited Aug 12, 2007 9:18 PM
Just a newbie here, but this is a picture I took the other day of my Plumerias. I am sure from what I have read and learned here that this is rust. At least that is what I treated it for. I picked all of the (90%) infected leaves off and put them directly into a trash bag. Then sprayed with daconil. Then treated the soil with a systemic. Something Bayer makes, already forgot the name, but it said it was for rust, scales, etc.
I have had some weird shaped leaves that I pulled off. Hoping I don't have a plant with a virus.
Nautical99
Nautical99, even though I'm a "newbie" with Plumerias, you don't have a virus, you have some type of bugs. That does not look like rust to me, but I'm just going by what I've seen on my roses and other plants.
I hope that all of your efforts are successful, and that you don't see that kind of infestation again. :)
That is what rust looks like on plumeria.
Definitely rust
Josegabriele, I wish I could say that we've had humid, wet weather before the 100+ temperatures set in. And, that was a good thought that it could be rust -- I've got a bush that suffers from rust occasionally, but not this year. And, if you'll read the following, you'll see that unfortunately, Clare and Kukiat are both correct with their analysis.
Clare, and Kukiat, thanks so much for your help and your insight. I contacted the seller of this Plumeria, and he has been very kind and gracious, and apologetic. The second e-mail I sent to him, I sent the pictures that I posted here. This is his response:
"Thank you for your info. After seeing your pictures, the answer is "probabbly". We can say these are sign of virus since most of my splash also have this sign of leaves, some is not due to disease or leaves get burn by strong sunshine.
The way to prove it is real virus is waiting for the flowers. I always wait to see flower to make sure it is splash before listing on ebay.
Kindly let me know your paypal address so that I can refund you back money since I wish to recover your feeling, my friend."
I think this person knows that he sold a virused plant, therefore his response. Again, I won't know for certain until it blooms. I don't want a refund from this guy. And, at this point, I must take a "wait and see" approach.
Felicia, you are welcome. We live in different time zone. This is why I just join in.
Infact, discoloration due to FMV on leaves comes with different shapes and patterns. Sometime it is very hard to ID. As I already mentioned if it's on emeraging leaves it is likely due to virus. However a "wait and see" approach should be the best.
Waiting for the flowers to show CB may take a very long time to happen. Many times the virus infected plants may produce flowers with no CB. It is just unpredictable. BTW, If you know how to do bud graft, you will find that you can check the presence of virus with high acuracy. The new emerging leaves from bud grafts almost always (over 95%) show sign of virus on at least one of the frist five emerging leaves. If you have 10 bud grafts, you will get about 9 bud grafts that show the symptom. I did share my observation with several friends and all told me back that the method is very accurate. This means that we can do this right in the our nurseries or home without relying on the sophisticated lab.
Nautical, that is definitely rust, and you did exactly what you should do when dealing with rust. It is usually unavoidable this time of year in humid parts of the country.
Felicia, You are most welcome. That is nice of your seller to offer a refund and to confirm that it is a virus showing. I agree with Kukiat that a wait and see attitude is best at the point. By the way, Nautical is showing a picture of rust on a plumeria. It is a different kind of rust than roses get. It is called Coleosporium domingense: http://www.plumeria101.com/problems/rust.html
Kukiat, that is wonderful that you discovered this inexpensive method of testing for the virus. I have yet to try it, but I would like to soon.
Rust is a weird thing last winter when I was growing seeds in the house certian seeds from different people would cover with rust. Others wouldn't right next to them didn't seem to hurt them showed no signs. Now that they are 2 foot high some of them get the rust and others don't. Can you tell me if seeds from a virus plant will or will not have it?So far I have been lucky When I buy cuttings now I ask about it don't want it here either.
Danasplants, according to http://www.ictvdb.rothamsted.ac.uk/ICTVdB/71010003.htm , there is no indication that virus can transmit from infected plant to seeds. But this is the only information I can find. I sow about a thousand of seeds each year, there is no indication or sign of virus on seedlings and CB on flowers so far. Anyway most of my plumerias are free of virus. I do several experiments by sowing seeds (about 100) from virus infected plumerias as well. There is no sign of virus on seedlings and no CB on flowers so far. That is all I can tell for now.
Dana, I'm not sure if you are talking about rust or about the virus or both. Rust is inevitable in Florida but can be treated with a fungicide like Bayleton. Yes, certain hybrids are more resistant to rust than others. Kukiat already answered your question about the virus being transmitted to the seeds. That was a really good question and good information to know.
Thanks for the answers I was talking about both. I'm going to have to look for Bayleton I was just at home depot looking for some thing to kill it. thanks very much to both of you for the answers. Dana
Dana, I think Home Depot has a treatment for lawn fungus, which is really Bayleton. Check the ingredients on their lawn fungus products. I forget what the name is now.
I used bayleton last year twice and only a fraction of the plumies have rust this year.
I was overrun with it last year.
Only the newbies are carrying it now.
I retreated.
well, sadly, here's a picture of the newly emerged leaf, which I guess confirms the virus....
That's the symptom of virus.
Thank you for confirming that, Kukiat. :)
