As some of you know I was raising two sets of cats at the same time and this was my first time. A lot of pressure but I thought I was doing alright. I had three BST and I have 8 gulf frit cats. With the BST's I brought in fresh dill but I also bought some from the store afraid I would not have enough. I have the same fear with the passion vine for the frits but have nothing to do about that. And I am still seeing new cats every day. Anyway, yesterday when I went to check on the babies my three BST's were dead. I think they had reached the second instar stage. But they were all just lifeless in the cage. I don't know what I could have done wrong. Stupid me, I thought maybe it was too hot in my house as my house gets kind of hot when it is hot outside. But if they can live outside in the heat then my house should not be too hot, right. Then I thought maybe it was the dill I purchased. I washed it thoroughly or at least thought I did. Anyway, I figured those would be the easiest to grow and the others would give me trouble. But it did not turn out that way. The gulf frits are doing fantastic, growing like crazy. They are so cute. But anyway, just thought I would let yall know so maybe I can get some ideas as to what I did wrong on this one. I don't think it will make me stop trying to raise these beauties but I just feel terrible and feel like had I just left them outside they would be big fat cats by now.
Leslie
Not a good first experience!
I'm so sorry Leslie. I know how you feel, I've had the same thing happen with the same caterpillars.
Unfortunately it probably was the dill. Some pesticides are systemic- they are soaked up through the roots and through the leaves and can't be washed off. No matter how thorough you are. Organic isn't safe because of the Bt. I know it's applied topically but I don't trust my washing skills enough to be able to make it safe after my last experience.
As far as them being big fat cats by now if left outside, not likely. The survival rate is truly low- birds and lizards love them. If we stick with it, our failures will be far outweighed by our successes.
Since your stock is low now, it might be a good time to do a nursery crawl- to find safe sources and probably some new egg stock. Sometimes if you let your favorite Mom & Pop nursery know what you are looking for, they will be happy to give you a call (and maybe a slight discount) about stock complete with cats.
Best of luck with the next batch,
Maggie
I wouldn't advise anyone to buy foliage at the store if there's any left in their yard, but then that's just my humble opinion there. Same thing goes for new nursery plants unless you believe the source is safe from past experience. I know of 2 nurseries in my region that I trust implicitly...with others I know I'm taking a chance. After nursey plants produce new foliage, that's usually safe even if the older foliage wasn't. I've also been known to find roadside sources of foliage for some kinds of plants...but then, too, I have trained myself very well on identifying native or wild plants. But in any case, don't load yourself down with guilt. I've recently had cats dying even with my own unsprayed foliage. Cats have diseases, and sometimes even the eggs or the washed foliage from my garden are infected already...from infected butterflies. I just go on and hope I make a difference with the next cats I have.
Linda
Leslie I'm so sorry about your bad experience, I know how you're feeling. I lost three under my care too, and it made me feel terrible. One little guy just would not grow, he made me feel the worst, because he seemed to be eating and hanging out alternately, just like the others, he just wouldn't grow, and then one day he just stopped moving. I was beside myself, I felt so bad. Do you have the room to grow your own dill and parsley next year? I'm going to grow more, but then of course, I'll have even more cats to worry about! The thing is, our hearts are big and we're doing our very best; at least bringing them inside we're getting them away from predators (Maggie, I didn't know the lizards went for them too!!!). You can't berate yourself, you're doing a very good thing!
My husband says that he doesn't want to drive anywhere with me anymore, I get so upset about butterflies flying out into the road.
Take care Leslie, you're doing great, don't fret!!
Leslie, don't worry so much! I had 20 Ploydamas ST hatch, and today I can only find 10 cats. I don't know where the other ones went; it's possible they're hiding. I was reading about butterflies, and the rates of natural diseases and parasites they carry is just huge. Remember, their "natural" survival rate is only 1-2%, and I imagine not all of them are getting eaten. Some of it has to be disease and parasites, and what can you do about that?
As for growing parsley and such...I'm planning on starting my seeds soon, and I was thinking of keeping them on the patio or something until they're really big. I don't want the bfs to lay eggs and then not have enough food! So maybe you could grow some indoors or on a screened porch so you always have some available that you know doesn't have any cats on it! Lots of people grow herbs in their kitchens so it must be possible.
By the way, the Polydamas came and laid two more egg clusters yesterday. Think about it like this - nature reproduces to replenish itself. There's a reason one bf has to lay so many eggs. Just to get two adults to replace the parents and keep the population steady they have to lay dozens (if not hundreds) of eggs. We try to manipulate nature as best we can, but she always wins in the end!
Melanie
Thanks guys very much. And special thanks to you Thea. I know what you were going through. I did not know you had lost any though and the fact that you are planning on planting more dill is really inspiring. You had a lot of cats to deal with. And you are willing to go for more. I did plant dill seeds after the first bunch of cats ate my dill but it did not grow at all. I bought parsley and planted it but it did not grow. I still have some dill left on my plant so maybe it will spread out some more before momma comes a calling.
The good thing is that my gulf frits are doing great. I brought three more in today making a total of 11 cats. Every time I go out to get more passion vine for the hungry monsters I already have I find more babies so in they go with the rest of their cousins. I have two really big ones now and one is actually in a J position on a stem. Not sure if he is doing what I think he is doing but he has been on the top of the cage all day and now is in that position. I can only hope. I have so many different sizes it is unbelievable and they make me happy because they are not letting me even get in the way of their life. I just clean them up, give them more to eat, talk to them a little bit (they ignore me) and they go on with their life and are doing great.
I cannot help feeling bad about the others but I know like yall said there are so many things that can go wrong. I just hate for anything to die. I mean I am really bad about stuff like that. As mentioned above about a BF flying across the road. Come October here there are thousands crossing the roadways and getting hit left and right by cars. It is really hard driving home on the freeway trying to dodge Monarch BF's but I do try as best I can. But it just makes me sick when I know I have hit one. They have such a hard life really and it all seems just a bit unfair.
Anyways, thanks again guys for making me feel better. And I do feel better and will not let this keep me from trying again. Now if something were to happen to the second set I don't know if I could keep going but would certainly try my best. I know it is a good thing we are doing and I think maybe the cats know it too which makes it really, really worthwhile.
Many thanks.
Leslie
So sorry about your BSTs Leslie. I have had some to die on me and it does get to you I know. I thought I had another one die oday, but he must have just been getting ready to change instars. I'm glad I didn't give up on him.. Glad to hear your frits are ok. Keep your chin up and plant, plant, plant. The season's not over. Let us know when you see the grove of Monarchs pass your house.
Will do.
Thanks for your kind words. My frits are doing just great. I think I bring in two or three more every day when I bring in "dinner" for the others. I have about 14 now, two in chrysalid, three about ready, and the rest in various stages. They are so sweet. Just eat, eat, eat and then work so hard to get into that tinly little chrysalid and do all that other stuff they do. I feel sorry for them kind of. They do a lot of work and go through a lot to not live very long but hopefully we are all changing that.
Leslie
Lost, after my first loss I almost changed my mind about trying to raise them. But we learn from our mistakes and from others' too. The BST are really slow movers and several times I have thought mine were goners. In between instars the are motionless for at least a day or more. Also if one is sick (viral) it can spread to others. It is best if you get them separated early in the tubs with the protective netting. I still have a loss ever now and then, but it is so much less than it would be if I had left them in the garden to be food for the wasp and birds. We have a lot of web worms this year to feed them.
I buy parsley every week for my cats and wash it well. Each morning and evening I can't wait to see how they are doing. I try not to touch them, only clipping the old stems and laying them on the new. I figure I may have lotions, chemicals etc. on my hands too. Each step we take gives them a much better chance than they have outside. Keep that in mind as you go and keep learning and trying. Don't give up!
thanks so much Sheila. I am going to keep going and I am going to plant my dill next year just like I always do, maybe more plants next year, and I am going to try it again. Those were my first cats to ever really know turned into butterflies, meaning the BST cats not the ones I lost, and I will just always have a love in my heart for that species.
Leslie