Someone please tell me when the time is right to pick them........up till a short while ago this plant could never have been grown on the Canadian prairies. Canadian quarter for size (same size as the American one).
Birdhouse Gourd
Whatever pollinates this plant we don't have here......I've been hand pollinating it. I've seen the little sweet bees in the pumpkin flowers (though I've been pollinating those as well) but none at the gourd (any I've missed on that plant have been aborted).
Here's some more coming along nicely..... :)
I think you leave them on until the stem shrivels.. That way you know they are done growing. If you pick them too early you will ruin them
Thanks Jazzy :D Normally veggies aren't close to ripening/ get picked here until the threat of hard frost is over us. With this one and two others that are so far ahead of the pack I thought I'd better ask (I really, really don't want to risk ruining it).
Those are very nice! Did you have any insect or disease trouble with them?
None nothing here seems to know what to do with it (thus my hand pollination). We don't have the nasties that you have down south since our winters tend to be nastier than *most* (but not all) diseases or pests but weather is changing so that too may change (we just had two winters that stayed around 32 F for most of the duration.....but other winters still do drop down to the -40's (-52F with windchill) .
We did have a really bad hail storm beg of July so most damage seen in my garden was from it:
There seem to be two schools of thought on harvesting the large dipper type gourds. One is to harvest it before a freeze and dry it and bleach it and such.
The other method is the one I ascribe to ....just let them hang on the fence all winter and come summer they are in pretty good shape by themselves. Course on that wind swept prairie, I don't know.
it depends on the type of gourd..some are ruined if they get frosted and some are just fine... Idon't know for sure for Lilypon's type so I didn't suggest that
Thank you for the suggestions Indy and Jazz.........I think I'll stick to harvesting it just before the freeze (we never know what kind of winter we are going to get so I don't think I'll risk hanging them on a fence). I could hang them up on our third floor (we don't heat it) it does get pretty cool up there but not like the great outdoors. We can also go from 80F to -20F overnight (come hard freeze) so I'm a little (lot ;) leary of what that might do to it.
How does one bleach the gourd.
As the gourds cure they will get moldy on the outside.. This is normal and supposed to happen but icky.. so after they have totally dried you gently clean the outside.. you only need about a capful of bleach per sinkfull of water. (wear gloves) and a scrubber. You want to be careful it doesn't scratch up the outside of the gourd though.so a soft scrubbie is best
I think they need to cure for at least a season. when they are dry they will be really lightweight and the seeds will rattle around inside
I cannot imagine harvesting is much different up there than down here. Just like Jazzpunkin said "If you pick them too early you will ruin them." I have always left them on the vine until a frost kills the vine. Then pick and store where air can circulate around them. They go through a pretty ugly phase when drying and you think "Oh no!", but persevere they will dry. I have found that any type gourd is pretty indestructible. I've grown several different varieties over the years. From the large pumpkin sized, down to the little 2-toned green/yellow ones.
I'm sorry I wasn't very clear melsalz.......I will leave them on for a light freeze (to be picked after). I'm just leary of what could happen to them if I left them out during our first hard freeze (our weather forecaster's are *usually* pretty accurate about what's coming). I eyed Indy's suggestion of leaving them hanging outside, for the duration of the winter, but decided against it because my winter can get a lot colder than Indy's.
Thank you for the warning re how ugly the mold/drying out process will be......it's good to be forewarned. ;)
This message was edited Aug 10, 2007 8:35 PM
Jazz I apologize for not saying *Thank you!* for your instructions re bleaching!!! :S I was so worried that people thought I didn't understand about having the vine shrivel that I thought I should address that first and then I had a phone call and just hit send without finishing my post.
Thank you everyone for all your tips and tricks! I really appreciate all the help you've given me. :)
It's all good :)
Hummm, I'm no help with the "hard" freeze you guys have. The coldest we have ever gotten to was last winter it went down to 10. Yikes! that was coldddddd enough for me. I guess I would leave one or two on the vine and just see what happens. I have had volunteer gourds pop up all over my yard over the years. Lots of times I just let them grow, (depending on where they pop up) and then just forget about em. They are always there come spring. Duh, I guess that's why I have volunteers every year. Attached a picture of some gourds I grew 2 years ago. Put the can (beer, compliments of my husband) next to them to show size. I always thought I would do something with them but they are still sitting in my barn. What do you plan on doing with yours?
Ü Wow!!! Ü What a gorgeous collection you have there melsalz! Regarding my bottle gourds I'm thinking of making Purple Martin houses out of them. I've always drooled over the pictures I've seen of the birdhouse gourds and I have never seen them in stores (sometimes the drum ones are available in the craft section).
I should define *light* and *hard* freeze here. Light freeze means whatever one covered will surivive the night. Hard freeze means even what was covered (minus adding a heat source) will probably turn black. The next couple of days will probably remain pretty cool but then we can head back up to the 50's (rarely the 80's) for a while after that. When I was a child winter cold and snow was often here by the beginning of October (sometimes early to mid Sept). Now it is often the beginning of January before our winter truly moves in (except for the very recent two years where it never really came) .......so in between Sept and January we will have a number of light frosts, one or two heavy frosts and a whole lot of really nice and warm days in between.
I should try sprinkling some gourd seeds on the ground this fall just to see if they will germinate here come spring.
This message was edited Aug 11, 2007 11:33 AM
Regarding a collection of large gourds (in my dreams but I'm tempted to try growing some of the big boys next year) here's a book I ordered for the library I work at: http://davesgarden.com/gbw/c/1856/
I have certainly enjoyed all the back and forth comments on hard shell gourd culture. Here's my two cents worth:
There is no good reason to pick gourds before the first frost, the time of death of the vine. However, regardless of when you pick them, those that set fruit mid to late season are likely to shrivel and rot no matter when you pick them. In my experience that is usually around 20%. Those that had most of the growing season to mature and develop a thick shell will survive all winter outside, in your barn, loft, or anywhere else you want to keep them. Most of mine are usually dry and ready to use by April or May of the following Spring. I disagree with the suggestion of needing to use a "soft" scrubber to clean the outer skin off the dry gourds. I always use a copper kitchen scrubber as hard as I can scrub under running warm water - never scratched one yet!
You can throw out seeds almost any time from Fall to early Spring. Since gourds are warm weather plants, one never sees seedlings until the soil has become quite warm. It is clear that the earlier one can start them, that is, the longer the growing season, the larger the number of mature (non-rotting) fruit you will get.
Lilypon,
Are you aware that young bottle gourds make really good eating. I learned this from an Asian lady at our local community garden. She grew a bunch of them strictly for eating. See :
http://www.evergreenseeds.com/bottlegourd.html
Cymbalariadave I promise I won't pick prior to first frost........my biggest concern was what damage a hard frost (possibly -20 F) could do to the gourd but now I understand that the mature ones should be so dry that those temperatures won't cause internal cell damage to a mature one.
pajaritomt it's good to see that there are other options for the immature ones. Up to what size can one eat them?
Still praying here that all the mid sized ones on up do get to maturity!
The two biggest ones now have white skin........does that mean they are mature? If yes I'll still leave them on for frost but am curious if that is how one can tell.
I think you can leave the ones with white skin to become birdhouses or whatever. The young green ones can be dinner. I am not sure when they quit being tender, but I would think you should pick them before they even begin to turn white. Think of testing a zucchini to see when it has become to big. If your finger nail doesn't easily make a gash in the skin, it probably should become a bird house. If it does, it could easily become dinner.
I don't know your average last freeze date, but it is less than 6 months from now. Sadly, on tenderness, of course they are most tender young. You will have to experiment when the skin becomes to tough and the meat to seedy. Luckily, you could have a lot of fun making these experiments.
They don't need much cooking when they are young. Probably you will easily figure out when they are over the hill.
Do let me know how this experiment turns out!
An afterthought:
The lack of pollinators is interesting. Did you ever read "The Poisonwood Bible"? The good minister had to deal with the lack of pollinators for Kentucky Wonder beans as I recall. Still, I have grown a lot of exotic veggies and never had problems with pollination, even with bottle and luffa gourds which are not all that common in New Mexico.
Thank you pajaritomt for the additional info (I sure am very grateful for all the help :).
I have no idea when first frost may occur other than sometime between Sept 15 to the end of October. Chance of around Sept 1st but we haven't had that happen for a number of years now. However with so many late to mature (90+ dtm) tomatoes needing extra time, as well as rare, for here, pumpkins and watermelons that would be tickled pink to have an extended fall...... I'm really pushing my luck re first frost. ;S
I'll be renting "The Poisonwood Bible" shortly........I'm pretty sure I've seen that book at the library. :)
re the pollinator of the bottle gourd I'm wondering if it is a moth? It blooms later in the day/evening/in fact I'm pretty sure it's blooms stay open all night long.
BTW after posting the above Running Dummy (that's me) stood up and dragged her foot behind her while she went to the kitchen for a drink (I dragged foot because I had been sitting on it too long). When I got into the kitchen said foot curled under and I hit the floor........am now Gimped Dummy (ankle is now sprained).
I realized just before falling that you probably did mean Last Frost Date (re planting out) which is exactly what you typed. Last frost here can happen any time from mid April to a week or two into June......we even had frost one year in every Calendar month. After saying the above though the usual safe planting date here for warm weather crops is June 1st. One can cheat however and put black plastic down to warm the soil, make a mini greenhouse with Walls-of-Water or tent a tomato cage with clear plastic to extend the season. I haven't been able to try that lately though because I received my plots June 1st, June 18th and one on June 21st.
edited to say I promise to let you know how the young bottle gourd tasted too (knew I missed replying to something else that you had posted). :S
This message was edited Aug 22, 2007 11:34 AM
Sorry about your ankle! Hope it wasn't the thought about frost dates that caused it. You read it right though I wrote it wrong. I meant your average first frost date. If I were you I would pick one or two that are newly set and eat those, leaving larger ones for arts and crafts. They are lovely gourds.
You are right about bottle gourds blooming at night and probably being fertilized by a moth. I never stayed up to see, but mine all got fertilized when I grew them, without help from me.
You will love the Poisonwood Bible. It is about an American family that goes to Africa as missionaries and the impact the Congo has one them. It is one of the best books I have ever read. The author, Barbara Kingsolver, is a biologist by training and grew up in the Congo.
Speaking of Barbara Kingsolver, if you haven't seen her "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle", you're in for a treat!
As for the gourd pollinator(s?), I've seen the one we have in Georgia. It is a moth similar to, if not actually, a Sphinx Moth. This one is only about 1.5" long and is definitely nocturnal.
Don't worry Pajaritomt....... Running Dummy must have had her ankle turned at a really strange angle whilst sitting on it for it to have become such a useless rubber appendage. I was walking very carefully at the time but my foot just flipped under with perfect timing. q: DH said it served me right for sitting at the puter for so long but I really hadn't been. BTW he sprained his ankle earlier in the spring whilst climbing on a pile of tires out in the garage.
I'm guessing the Sphinx moth and any other moth that would pollinate the gourd here is not often seen here (actually I know that over the years. when the Sphinx moth has been sighted and if a picture was taken, it's been featured in the local papers due to it's rarity).
I'm looking forward now to borrowing the above two books by Ms. Kingsolver (I'm pretty sure I've only read one or two of hers). For years, after having children, I limited my reading to non-fiction with just a few faves in the fiction section so my specialty is more the non-fiction, archives and reference area. My co-workers, whose children left home a number of years ago, are more up-to-date with the fiction collection. . Patrons soon learn what each staff member's strengths are.
I haven't read Animal, Vegetable, Mineral either. I need to. I didn't read much fiction when I was working but since I retired I find my self reading a little more all the time. I have never had to worry about pollination. I think its all these desert flowers, keeping our pollinators happy and healthy. There is little farming around here and there probably isn't much spraying going on.
B. Kingsolver's "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" is more documentary than it is fiction. It's about her family's experiment of trying to spend 12 months feeding themselves only from their own garden or from sources located one hour's drive from their location. She is so gentle but very effective in making the case that it is illogical and simply the wrong way to go to consume diesel fuel transporting foodstuffs across the country or across oceans in support of the megacorporations of agribusiness leading to the severe hardship and ultimate demise of local producers. It's a great read even if you can't bring yourself to do what she and her family did.
Oh yes! I have heard of this book. I would like to read it.
Just ran across this thread -- there is an Ornamental Gourds forum that could give you some good info. Generally gourds flower at night, and that's why it's the moth that is the gardener's best friend. I pollinate them by hand. Probably the best book I have is Ginger Summitt's "Gourds in Your Garden" -- it answers all the above and then some!
Once it's dry on the vine, it's my understanding a frost won't hurt it because it's the freezing of the internal water that makes the frost ruin the plant. Once they rattle, they're ready. I'd leave them on as long as possible.
I use a copper scrubber, too.