I have enjoyed my new 45 ft stream and waterfall and glad I made it a pondless system. The basin holds about 6 - 8 inches of water over the top layer of rock. I did not buy a filter or clarification system of any type but see now it will be needed. There are no fish. It's simply a sound and movement addition. I have used the algae removers, even pool chemicals.
What should I get to keep the water clear for next year? There is approx 500 gallons in the system. I can add something to the waterfall or prefer to add to the pond when we remove the rock and clean it out in Spring. I don't plan on running it during the winter.
Suggestions?
Kathy
Algae control
Hi Kathy,
If you want to keep your pondless system, I would suggest a biological filter at the head of your stream. It would be easy and the least disruption to your current setup. One can be made inexpensively using "Skippy's" design (link below). This would help in two ways - you will add filter material on which good bacteria can grow. The good bacteria helps with overall water clarity (the link explains it all). Then you can completely cover the surface of the filter with bareroot plants. The plants will use up the nutrients that cause algae to grow, plus they will help disguise the filter.
http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm
This method will take time each spring to take effect, but it is better than battling the algae all year long. I have a 150 gallon filter for my ponds. You could probably go with 50 or 100 gallons for a pondless system. I'd probably go with 100 as more filtration is always better than less. The more filter media and plants you can put in your filter, the better.
With this setup, I have not had any algae blooms for 2 years, not even in the spring. I think it is partly due to the fact that my pond and streams are not in full sun all day long, but even with sun, the bio-filter should be an improvement over no filtration.
This message was edited Aug 7, 2007 5:28 PM
Perfect ! You have been a great source for me throughout the entire process. I'm very glad I did the pondless stream, glad I made it 45 ft and only wish the water was a bit deeper - but 2 more inches won't be forth the extra effort. I made 2 dams and it deepened the water in 2 spots.
I can't thank you enough for all the great info you've given. I'll check the link now and get going - I don't know now much trouble it would be to keep it running in winter - your thoughts? I know the plants will need to come in.
Kathy
I kept my stream running until the first week of January last winter. But it was a very mild winter up till then. Once it started getting consistently cold, I shut down. I know there are people who keep a stream running all winter, but I just found it to be too stressful, LOL. Once ice starts to form, you begin to lose a lot more water because the ice just keeps building up on itself. When that happens, there is always the chance that the ice dams will divert the water outside of your streambed and run your reservoir dry. Not to mention the fact that water loss means you somehow have to replace it, not easy since I disconnect all my outside hoses for the winter. Lastly, there's the danger of a loss of power - if that happens the pipes can freeze and burst.
You're in a slightly warmer zone, but not much - so I'd be inclined to tell you to shut down too. You can start it back up as soon as there are more days above freezing than below. I started everything back up the first week of March. We still had some freezing temps afterwards, even snow, but it almost always got above freezing during the day so any ice that formed overnight, melted during the day and I didn't have any problems.
I'll try to post a picture of my biological filter tomorrow so you can see how it's connected to the stream.
I sent an email to skippy and waiting on a reply. There's a mini kit for up to 750 gallons. The next size kit is 70 gallon holding tank which is for around 2500 gallons. I think the mini would do. But I posed that question to skippy.
Please post the pictures.
Kathy
Here's a picture of my filter. I used two 3-inch pvc pipes as outlets which I then hide with rock and a mossy log. I'd recommend painting the pvc dark green or black. The white stands out too much.
Here it is with the rock hiding the pipes.
I planted impatiens, water celery and some type of aquatic grass in the filter - all bareroot. As you can see, they have completely covered the surface. This is good - the roots provide additional filtering and plants compete with algae for nutrients. I have ferns growing all around the filter to hide the sides (it's only buried about 6 inches - the rest stands above ground).
I emailed skippy and he replied that he didn't think his system would work for me because I have to much bacteria feeding on my algae, or something like that. I explained I would use the system when I start up the stream in Spring. After it's drained, cleaned and free from Algae. No reply yet.
Did you buy the kit or do it by parts?
K
I did not get the kit. I think you'll spend more $$ that way, but it sure is easier. So whatever appeals to you more - saving $$ or easy, LOL! I got the rubbermaid stock tank off ebay for a good price. Then I bought the filter material in bulk - as a 10 foot roll which I then cut it into smaller pieces. My husband did the plumbing.
Not sure I understand what Skippy was trying to tell you - doesn't make sense to me...
Here is his email. I had asked him about the mini kit which works for 750 gallon ponds or less:
The mini is made from a 20 gallon plastic barrel liner. Usually found at Home Depot or other home improvement or garden center. I don't know for sure if this will solve your problem. The trick with our system is that it's natural. Your bacteria colony is growing & eating the algae throughout your pond but especially in the filter. At the same time, you work on getting your balance going with fish & plants. Pond plants are a higher form of plant life than algae, so they starve out the nutrients that algae needs to grow.
here is the email I sent to him after that message:
I plan on closing down the system over winter and cleaning out the “pond” next Feb/March and thought that would be a good time to start with your system. Would it work then?
I can put plants in the 6 or so inches of water that is standing, or even put the pots deeper into the rocky area under the top layer of river rock. I have a 55 gallon plastic barrel with holes drilled in it – basically a shell of a barrel because there are so many holes to allow water volume, and there’s milk crates, etc that are nothing more than something sturdy enough to hold the top layer of river rocks which are about 2-4 inches in size. I do not have a filter system at all now.
I realize the algae that I have growing now would have to be killed out over winter and started over for this to work – but would it work then?
-----
He just now replied:
I have to be honest. It will be an experiment. We have never used our filter on a pondless stream/waterfall
SongsOfJoy - That's the best explanation of the downsides to running a waterfall/stream in the winter in zone 5 I've ever read. I've been tempted to keep mine going but have always chickened out. Now I'm glad I never tried it. My waterfall has a lot of splash. When that splash freezes I'm going to "lose" a lot of water, quickly, and I would have no easy way of adding it back. Then in the spring the runoff from all that thawing water could be a problem in and of itself. Boy do I ever thank you.
I honestly don't see how a pondless feature would be much different, with the exception that you don't have fish. Technically, you DO have a pond - it's just filled with rocks. The fish waste produces ammonia which helps start the biological cycle. But you CAN have a biological filter without fish. I have read of some people who add regular ammonia to their ponds to substitute for fish waste. I have even heard of some suggesting that the men in their household contribute by...ummm....well, occasionally using the pond instead of a bush, if you know what I mean. (NOT that I'm suggesting that here... LOL) I would also go with at least 50 gallons. 20 gallons doesn't sound like it would add much.
I agree with adding plants...in the filter and in your pondless pond. Plant them bareroot right in the rocks. The end result will look like the stream empties into a bog, but the plants will help a lot with algae control.
Snapple - mistakes make the best teachers ;o) We had one very cold spell that lasted about a week last winter before I shut down. I was a nervous wreck as I helplessly watched the huge icedams build and the pond level just keep dropping. I tried to shut down in the middle of that cold spell, but the valves were all frozen open so there was no way to drain and shut the pipes. So I held out, knowing that the forecast was predicting a break in the weather. After that week, I checked the forecast every day and shut down before the weather turned again.
I don't know what to do if skippy doesn't think his system will work. His kit for 750 gal is only $70 and it includes all the stuff. What do you think? Where should I buy my filter material? Is it the same as skippy uses?
http://www.restockit.com/Scouring-Pad-6-x-9--(MD6900).html
would this be the same material used as the filter roll
I still don't see why it wouldn't work for a pondless system. You might have to add a little ammonia to jump start the cycle, but otherwise I don't know why it would be different than a pond without fish. That being said, I would be hesitant to spend money on something if the "owners" said it might not work also.
Perhaps you can try just adding lots of plants to the "pond" next year and see how much it helps with algae control. If next year isn't any better, then revisit the biological filter idea?
I have no filter system now. Should I buy some type of filter?
Skippy replied to me again this morning with a 3 or 4 word reply - not a very nice man on email - maybe better on the phone. I won't be buying from him.
Surely there's a good filter I can get to put a stop to this next year.
k
Thanks for posting your pictures, Joy!
I've been wondering how to camouflage our biofilter and yours looks great--my best ideas so far had been to hang window-boxes (or something similar) around the edges planted with sweet potato vine (got that idea from a picture of Snapple's), but if bare-root impatiens works so well, that would be great to do, too.
Right now we just have a lot of hornwort and a barley bale in the top of ours, but next year, I'll have some good ideas to start out with.
I've been wondering if we can find gray PVC to replace the outlet pipe, but something like your stone cover would be just as good, if not better.
I know there are expensive stone covers for the manufactured biofilters, but I hadn't thought of doing that to ours.
DG is such a good place for inspiration!
Teresa