Looking for.....(grapes)

I need to put in 2 grape varieties. I would like one red, one green. I love grapes that are firm and have a nice crunch rather than mushy or soft.

I find that the small red ones typically are firmer than larger varieties...they are about the size around of a penny.

I would REALLY REALLY love your suggestions on the best red and green types that fit this criteria. I am in zone 8.

Tir, I have posted similar questions on grapes and did not get an answer. Maybe backyard grapes are not that used. So I did some googling and came up with a guy named Ron Lombough that has alot of information on grapes.

You could look him on the net and then when you get to his site, you could email him. He also has links to other grape sites on his website. DM

I'm not willing to try grapes again unless I can actually taste the fruit before I dig a hole for the vines. It's not that they're so hard to grow, it's that the fruit isn't worth it, compared to the grapes in the store, from warmer places.

I've often wondered about muscadines and scuppernongs...I've never had a chance to taste them. The flavors are said to be quite distinctive. I wonder why they are not offered in grocery stores.

Wow, many thanks.

Dig, quite right. Little information being shared on grapes. I'll search for that link. Thank-you.

LTil, same problem here, do not want to dig and grow grapes without planting ones that fit what I prefer.

Yuska, I sure wish the stores actually had variety names on those grapes they get in. I can spot the ones I really like before touching but all are sold under generic heading of "grapes."

Particularly when it can be years before the vines bear fruit - only to discover it's not what you had in mind.

And I don't trust the catalogs to tell the truth on this matter.

I planted 4 vines in San Antonio when I lived there. Year 2 they had grapes on them but I ended up moving while the grape clusters were small. Not sure if they are edible first year or not? But was exciting to see. They were the standard 4 pack from Sam's Club variety. 2 red/2 green.

Tir,
I do have one grape vine that I have had for about 8 years. Every year it gets bigger and better. And tastier. I want about 6 more vines for an arbor. I also want to grow some good tasting varieties for my zone. That is why I was asking for advice from people who have already grown and experienced certain varieties.

My grapes taste good, but they are so small and have seeds, that they are hard to eat. If you accidently eat a seed, they taste awful. I want to try some seedless varieties or some bigger ones with seeds.

I love the vines, they are so beautiful. I would grow them for the vine even if they didn't produce grapes. I'm going to keep studying up on what I want to buy come spring. I need 6 vines. DM

For cold-hardy grapes, Miller Nurseries in New York State has a good selection:

http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_list&c=2

Eventually, grape vines need to be pruned. You can use the trimmings to make wreaths to decorate seasonally.

This message was edited Aug 6, 2007 12:12 AM

How long a span on an arbor is suggested per vine?

Dig, good point---always looking for seedless varieties.

For home grapes, unless you are in a very dry climate (or you want to spend lots of time caring for your vines) you want to avoid vinafera grapes. They have too many diseases. Most of the store-bought crunchy grapes are vinaferas. The seedless home variety with the best flavor seems to be Jupiter. I have a couple vines of it but no fruit yet so I can't say how crunchy (or not) it is; it is supposed to be somewhat crunchy. Swenson Red is a very tasty, crunchy grape but it has seeds. Canadice is a very tasty red seedless grape which is OK on the crunchiness scale. Most of the "old time" American grapes such as Concord, Niagra, etc are slipskin (the skin pops off easily) and are not crunchy at all and also have seeds.

6 feet apart is a good first approximation of spacing. Double A Vineyards is a good source for high quality vines. There are several good online grape growing guides available by Google and there is also an excellent book by Rombough.

Scott

thankyou!

One of the best sources of information is the California Rare Fruit Growers organization. Begun in 1968, it has expanded beyond California and now has members worldwide. I was a member of a chapter for several years when I lived in San Bernardino. We had monthly meetings with interesting speakers, fruit tastings and exchanges of seeds and rooted cuttings.

Tir, there is a Houston chapter. I'm dmailing you the contact information. The organization has volumes of articles in its many publications, but you can search specifically for grapes and narrow the choices quite a bit. How to grow, varieties, etc.

I'd also suggest you contact the garden editor of your local paper to inquire about local groups that may specialize in grapes. If you can find someone already growing a variety that is healthy and abundant, you might be able to obtain a start of it. Rooting a grape cutting is very simple. Just pin a section of the vine to the ground with a stone or metal plant pin and place a small amount of soil over the area. In warm weather roots will usually form within a month and the vine can be severed to release the cutting from the original plant. Let the cutting grow in place for a bit longer and then it can be transplanted.

Tir_Na_Nog I note that you said zone 8. But zone 8 has a lot of varience. Here in the southeast, most of us grow Muscadines. But if you are on the west coast, you will want to look at California grapes. The northern types don't handle heat very well and are a pain to grow here.

Scottsmith, how do those seedless reds you mention compare in taste to the CA red flame variety in the stores?

LTilton, I think they are better, not due to the variety but because of how they are grown. The problem is the ones you get in stores were grown and harvested with shipping, looks, size, and storage in mind, not flavor. Home-grown ones will be sweeter and more flavorful. Red flame are extremely crunchy so they will not be as crunchy as that. The Thompson Seedless you see in stores (the common white seedless grape) is in fact the ancient grape Sultana. If grown at home and harvested at peak ripeness it tastes very good.

Scott

But here in Zone 5, we can't grow them.

Tir_Na_Nog, make sure that the grapevines you plant are resistant or immune to Pierce's Disease. It is spread by the glassy-winged sharpshooters found throughout Texas. I remember reading an excellent article, in an old issue of Texas Gardener, about heritage Munson varieties, developed in Texas, that are immune. I found a link to it:
http://www.texasgardener.com/pastissues/novdec04/index.html

Thank you bettydee.

scottfsmith,
Thanks for the information and description of the varieties you mentioned. DM