Yesterday I took some clippings from some of my brugs. They were all looking happy even putting off buds. Just a few min. ago I went out and look what's happening. It rained this morning then the sun came out. So it's not like they were allowed to get dry. Is it possible that it got scorched. One of the others is looking sad, though not as much as this one. Son says that the stalks look strong just the leaves are affected. No bugs, no shredded leaves. Any ideas?
Anne
Here's a pic of the other one
Here's a pic of the group
I don't know yet enough about these wonderful plants, but it looks like it was just too darned thirsty on a hot day. I know they need lots of water, so..... good luck!
Sanna
Get them in the filtered shade. Brugs don't like watered on a hot day. They should perk up
Am I right in thinking that these are cuttings? I would recommend that you take the cuttings and plunge them in water until they revive and start the cuttings in water or in pots.
If these are rooted cuttings, they do best with morning sun and afternoon shade.
Anne,
That is what happened to mine when we had so much rain for days and then the sun came out full force after being rainy and cloudy for about 2 weeks. All of the ones in full sun did that and worse. They all came back fine and all blooming again. The worst ones lost all their leaves and then put out new growth. They are blooming too. The only ones that didn't recover were some new rooted cuttings I had just put out. They may still come back as some had sprouted at the top, but today I thought they didn't loook too good. It has been really hot.
Carol
This message was edited Jul 22, 2007 8:54 PM
That soil looks awfully heavy. Looks like pure clay. If brugs don't get suffient drainage they can suffer from something called "Wilt" which essentially is a root rot caused by the root system being oversaturated for extended periods of time. Of course nobody can make a true diagnosis from a few pictures but I would check the consistency of your soil.
If you have been having a lot of rain lately I would say Carol is right. That is what some of mine looked like too.
They should come back.
Caren
they've been out for over a week. And indeed had put on blooms finally. So I'm thinking that the soil was ok, it was beautiful and dark green as of yesterday. I really believe that the rain then beating sun was a bad combo. Will take more pics tomorrow. Thanks
Anne
Anne,
Gary (xeriscape8321) hit the nail on the head as to what is your problem. The soil is too wet for the roots. And if the sun comes out real hot on a plant that is suffering from poor drainage it will make it worse.
From my own experience with this problem, this is what I would suggest. Dig up the two affected plants carefully, try not to disturb the rootballs any more than you have to. Place them in full shade for a few (say 2-4) days, cover the rootballs with straw, grass clippings, anything to keep the roots from drying out completely. This will allow the rootball to drain off some of the excess moisture.
In the meantime, if you plan to leave them in the ground year round, which I assume you will be doing in your zone, dig your hole a little deeper and wider and admend the soil REAL GOOD. You can use perlite ( I suggest to use a good bit of this), vermiculite, shredded leaves, compost, etc. You really need to improve the drainage of the planting site. By admending the soil to drain better it will not only help you in the growing season, but also help keep the roots from rotting during the winter.
This is just my opinion and experience. Hope it helps.
David
David
These plants had been in potting soil for several months. About a week ago, I dug a really deep hole (emphasis on high ground for drainage) and placed the whole plant minus the pot in the hole. I don't know how to amend any more. The hole was dug larger, read way larger than the plant. the dirt around the roots is not native soil. I mixed some of the potting soil with the sandy dirt. I can't imagine what else I can do. I will however be digging it up tomorrow at any rate. Perhaps I should just keep that one in a pot.
Anne
mine droop in heat of the day but come right back cools down some. and do like water..
It does get hot here during the summer for us. Brugs do seem to prefer partial shade area. However, I've seen them grown out in open sunny sites. Provided that they've been accustomed being there. (well rooted, and transplanted during the fall so that it has enough time to send out a strong root-system before mother nature put them to a test).
As far as being transplanted during our hot summer months, I've learned that they don't do well. Those new plants I've, I'll plant on keeping them in pots, nourish them for the rest of the growing season, will overwintered in protected area. Those that are strong and healthy in pots. Will be transplanted out. Take cuttings, if you want to safeguard some unforeseen occurrence with those outdoors.
I call it steam baked. I have seen lots of plants do this when sitting in standing water when the sun comes out.
I'm with you Ted, I'm very sure that this is what happened. I'm not going to dig it up if I can get out of it. I think that would be too much of a shock that it can't take right now. I will if I can't think of a way to shade it for awhile, but I'm thinking that I will take the advice of a dmailer and trim the leaves back and try to figure out a way to shade it till it recovers. Thank you all. I'll post more pics as changes happen.
Could you use a beach umbrella?
If I had one. Money's a bit tight right now so maybe will string a sheet off the bed and nail to boards at a distance around it. Don't want to smother it. It will look ugly but oh well.
I have started amending my soil with 4 parts Pine Bark Fines, 2 parts Cat Litter and one part Perlite or course Vermiculite . On the cat litter only use the Walmart brand in the red bag. Could not find the Pine bark fines up here so I bought the cheap pine bark mulch at Walmart and run it thru the shredder. The Perlite or Vermiculite you can get from BWI
For temporary shade, have you thought of erecting some tarps (provided that there is not much windy an area). Or even well worn cloth materials. Look at "Anybody growing Giant Pumpkins" on vegetable forum. This lady rigged up a tent-like to provide shade for her pumbkin. It'd work well for your brugs, I think.
this is the best way to check for good drainage dig your hole fill it to the top with water if it takes longer then 20 mins to drain dont plant there even if you amend the soil it still will be to wet as all the soil around it is bad drange paul
I will remember that. I tried some small things if that doesn't work, it's back to the pot with them. I did the following:
1) trimmed off the larger leaves
2) took off the top layer of soil (I used the soil already there, sandy/clay, to top it with. I'm thinking that I just put the plant equivalent of putting a lid on the pot.) This will hopefully allow it to breathe better.
As I said 3 of the 4 are looking so bad that at this point repotting seems the best course. I will look into a better location, soil etc. next year if the above doesn't work.
Thank you all.
Anne
Think steam-baked is probably right. Mine seem to do best in pots with filtered sun/shade. They do perk up with late afternoon sprinkling.
Elaine
I agree with Gary and David.I too think it's too much water instead of not enough.
With that said,consider this.We have all preached and screamed water,water,water...fertilize,fertilize,fertilize and then water some more.I have even seen the statement here that you can't over water,or fertilize, brugs.Don't believe it.Brugs do require regular water and fertilizer in the growing period but it is easy to overdo it.Roots sitting in water will quickly develop root rot and the plant will look just like those in the pictures and will begin to lose leaves and become generally unthrifty.I have never had one of our plants recover.
For our potted brugs we now use 1/3 perlite plus the amount that's already in the commercial mix.Steer clear of vermiculite.It does loosen the soil but it also holds water
against the roots.So go ahead and water,water,water but just make sure your soil mix drains within minutes.
Here in Texas we've received hours and hours of rain practically every day for months. If plants can be overwatered we here in Texas can tell you all about it. I know that I've griped endlessly about the daisies, allisums (sp), tomatos, morning glories, and salvias that I/we have lost due to the rain. But like I stated above, I took steps to place the brugs on the highest ground in my yard. So all I can do is try to remediate the cloudy/cool/rainy with the sudden noon day heat on wet leaves/ground situation. If I can't then I'll just put them back in their pots and treat them as container plants. And I put Osmocote on them yesterday because I didn't feel that applying any more liquid was a good thing, even if it was fertilizer.
Was Gary correct about the clay there..and Paulc comment about ammending around the plant.. perfect for clay... restated... If you did a hole in the clay.. and ammend the soil inside with light easily drainning mix... you'll effectively have created a non drainning pot... as the walls/bottom of the clay will hold any water that's in the light mix very well... about as well as a plastic bucket
Gordon
that said you can incorporate a french drain into each hole..like a leaching field. to take excess water away
the plants may just be in shock , as hot as it gets here... it happens sometimes. my brugs are in clay+compost in part sun and seem pretty happy .. . the trick to planting in clay is to spread the roots out a bit at the bottom so they dig intothe clay, otherwise itjust makes a bowlof water to sit in~lis
We pulled off the top layer of soil and looked at the dirt around the roots. While the soil was wet, it was not overtly so. The clay is at a certain level, higher at some points and lower at others depending on the higher points of soil. I don't know if I said that right. But where I have these is at about the highest part of my yard. So I will wait till Sat. and assess where things are. We had a lot of rain today and expect more for the rest of the week.
I know about the tub effect, we had that problem with my flower beds. Again they are at a lower level than where the brugs are. We dug the hole deeper and wider than necessary for these plants. And back filled with topsoil. Now if they can just stand the large difference in temps that we have.
Hrm... Mine seem to be ok planted right in clay mixture, in fact cuttings rooted prett well in them...
AuntAnne, not to worry... I have always called it sun scald. Too much rain and then scalding sun. The leaves will shed but will put on new growth shortly. Just a bump in the brug road.
I think you are on the right track about relocating them next year... maybe an afternoon shade. Please keep us posted. pod
We went out and looked at them today. They look fine. The one that I posted the picture of is looking fine. I cut off all of the large leaves and the smaller ones are looking great. I need to cut off all the larger leaves from the others as well. I cut of most but will be a little more aggressive about it in the morning. All of them are putting on a bunch of smaller leaves. I'm sure that I've lost all of the buds but oh well it happens. Thank you for all of your help.
Anne.....sorry to see your brugs were suffering. Mine have done that before too. And with all this rain we've had its no wonder they aren't floating....lol. I have quite a few in the ground, all of them get shade at some point during the day which I think helps. I have lots of clay too, and have had to deal with waterlogged plants this summer but I guess that's as good as the usual latter, fried plants. Once they get established they will probably handle the heat and sun better, my bigger ones handle it much better than the smaller ones I planted this year. If you need cuttings let me know, I've got a couple I could cut from for the fall.
:) Kim
We went out Sat. to evaluate and see if digging up was in order and found that the one in the picture was doing much better. So we just left them. If they get bad again I may just dig them up and wait till next Spring.
When you put Brugs in the Ground allways plant theam out side when its a bit cool still for a few weeks they will do a lot better as it gets warm
As I said a little further back, this was almost certainly an after effect of an early morning rain storm followed by almost immediate full blast noon day sun. I don't think any amount of time in the ground would have saved it from what happened. I will try to get a pic of it now. It looks 150% better.
