First time for the sulphers

I found 5 cats in my butterfly garden that I believe are Cloudless Sulphers. A friend gave me what she called a "cassia tree". I noticed something eating the leaves and when I searched I found these. This is my first time for this type of cat. Can I bring them into a cage just like I do my other ones? Anything special I need to do for them? Also, I noticed on the edge of the cassia leaves these pointed "egg-like" things. Are they sulpher eggs or something else. I have a couple pictures of the cats and the egg things if you can look closely.

Any words of wisdom will be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Terrie

Here's picture 1 of the cat. Is it a Cloudless sulpher?

Here's a picture of the things on the edges of the leaves. Are they eggs? They are yellow and very oval.

thanks!

Terrie - That is definitely the eggs in your photo. Your cat kinda looks like an Orange-barred Sulphur. Here's the thread I started a while back about mine. I can't tell from your photo for sure about the cat. Take a look at this thread for comparison:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/735953/

Congrats on your new cats! :-)

Thanks, Becky. I had seen a sulpher zipping around but didn't notice her landing anywhere. I was excited. I'm going to have to order more cages! I have 3 cages of GFs, 2 cages of BSTs and 1 of Monarchs. So am now using my last small cage for these sulphers.

Awesome Terrie!! Beautiful cats, great job finding!
I am still waiting for them on my Cassias, but til then I will enjoy watching yours.

Mostly males I've seen coming through here so far.


:-Deb

Now that the instars are getting huge, it appears I have both kinds - the cloudless and the orange-barred. I'm hoping they pupate soon. The orange-barred cats are getting so big.

Terrie

Awesome Terrie! Did ya get any pics? I would love to see.

:-Deb

I just went out a took a few. Does it look like two different kinds of cats, or just different stages of instars? Here's 1:

Here's the other cat - I have two of each....

Hi Terrie!
Cool pics... very good shots!

The first one is an Orange Barred Sulphur
http://bugguide.net/node/view/6198
Be right back with the other, unless someone else beats me to it.LOL!

:-Deb

Second one is a Cloudless Sulphur
http://bugguide.net/node/view/6081#2241

You were right, they were 2 different species Terrie!

Nice work!

:-Deb

You may want to take a peek at the simple, quick & easy cat cage.. They can fall in the water and drown. Wet floral foam is best...
Explained in this thread>
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/747907/

Deb,
I'm using wet florist foam in a small rubbermaid container. I cover it with Saran Wrap and then poke the plant stem through a small hole. I look at it very closely every day to make sure the hole isn't big enough for anyone to get through.

In my GF and BST cages I always use potted plants, it's only in the two new cages, the Monarch and Sulphers that I've had to use the wet foam.

Thanks,
Terrie

Here's the status as of this morning:
At 7:00 am, two were hanging from the top. I put a stick in there, but just as in my other cages, they always seem to like just hanging from the top of the cage or the tag.

While I was getting fresh food for the other cat cages, this happened. This picture was taken at 7:20.

Hi Terrie!
Well done! Sulphur are really easy to raise here in FL. Do you know the name of the Cassia that you have? It looks like C. alata or candlestick plant to me. Ahhh! If so, they can be quite aggressive here. You might want to put it in a big ol' pot!

Adrienne

Adrienne,

I don't know the name of the Cassia. My friend just called it a Cassia Tree. It's about 3 ft tall now, and definitely shaped like a tree. I'll take a picture of it later and post it so you can maybe give me an idea what kind it is.

I also have a different cassia, more like a shrub, but it hasn't brought me any butterflies yet.

Terrie

The best thing about working at home is being able to zip out to the garden whenever I want.
Here's the "tree"

A close-up

and the "shrubby" one....
Can you tell what they are by these pics?

Thanks,
Terrie

Terrieurban - I hate to throw a wet blanket over the above,
but your cats don't look anything like what I have raised, either for large sulphurs or Orange-barred sulphurs. And, the shrub does not look like what I have for a cassia/senna bush / tree.

The eggs of both of the above are placed on or near the flower buds, as they eat the flowers.

The National Audubon Society field guide to N.A. Butterflies, picture 32 in the front of the book shows a Cloudless Giant Sulphur larva. A Field Guide to Butterflies of Texas shows the chrysalises on plates 11 and 12. Kaufman's Butterflies of N.A. shows the Cloudless larva on page 75. Attachment below shows the Orange-barred larva. Note, all are bright yellow with dark bands at regular intervals. I selected this particular picture to show both the cassia / senna leaves and to show the larva.

Rod

Looks like I am going to have to take the BugGuide to task and get them to explain how the two larvae can be so different between Florida and Texas. I have my bugs photographed all the way through the process up to including them mating afterwards.

Rod

Catbird,

I did quite a bit of research online and looked through my own books and the pictures that I've found show your cat as one that eats flowers, and my cat as what it looks like when it eats leaves. Both of my cats match the pictures in my Caterpillars in the Field and Garden Guide on page 45. I'm fairly sure they are Sulphurs, but of course won't know positively until they eclose.

Here's one of the pictures in Dave's Bug files - http://davesgarden.com/bf/showimage/520/

Thanks!
Terrie

It looks like it has something to do with what they eat. Yellow flowers get yellow cats, green leaves get the green cats.

Wild, isn't it?

Terrie

Absolutely, Terrie!

I have hand-raised both from blooms and from leaves and the cats DO look different depending on what they are eating. How exciting that you have both species of Sulphur butterflies! I have been getting the Orange-barred lately in my yard laying eggs on my Cassia bush. Their diet right now is the leaves as there is no flowers blooming at this time. :-)

WOW ! We are never too old to learn (73 going on 100).

I know some of the ST's will have a different colored chrysalis according to whether they are on slick green wood or dry brown wood.

Still, I like my yellow cats the most ! ;-)

Rod

Yep it's what they are eating that helps Sulphurs camoflague.. And Rod, I have had BST make brown chrysalids on green stems and green chrysalids on brown. Still a mystery, and a big surprised too!!
Guess I'm not too old to learn either, LOL!
Sulphurs make more sense on that cammo thing.

:-Deb

The first of my Sulphurs has eclosed this morning. Yippee!!

Terrie

Terrie,

Just saw this thread. Congrats on the eggs, cats and butterflies!!! There are so many species of sulphurs it's often hard to tell what is what :o) As for narrowing down by use of the larval host...heck that doesn't make it any easier either. Out here in south Texas they use a variety of native trees and bushes...legume family...which can add up to dozens :o) Did I mention Winter and Summer forms and all the exceptions to the rule? Heh heh!

Unless you actually see the butterfly laying the eggs often waiting until the eggs hatch, the caterpillars turn into chrysalids and the butterfly ecloses is the only way to know for sure - been there, done that :o) ROLF!!!

Congrats again!!! All the photos are wonderful!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

~ Cat

Thanks, Cat!

I've had the GFs and BSTs for a couple of years, but this is my first year for the Sulphers and Monarchs.

Congrats Terrie... NIce job! Another lovely yellow butterfly... can't have too many Sulphurs if you ask me!
Know what ya mean Cat...lol!
:-D

The first four sulphurs eclosed over the past couple of days. Two of them were indeed the orange barred ones.
I have 3 more cats in the cage now. And watched a sulphur laying a ton of eggs on Friday. Looks like it's going to be a busy sulphur season. Which is just fine with me!

Terrie

Can I ask a hijack question? I have 3 Cassia Plants. One is "Winter Cassia" sort of a habit likle Crape Myrtle- mult arching branches from a base- like a fountain. I have Cassia Alata- candlestick Cassia. And I have a bush shaped, slightly columnar summer blooming Cassia. The cats LOVE the Alata and the new "Summer Blooming) Cassia which has leaves and flowers just like the Winter Cassia that they won't touch. Can anyone help me with the name of the "Summer" Cassia? I've got a bunch of seed pods and I want to make sure they are properly labeled.

Many thanks,

Maggie

Maggie can you take some photos of the leaves and the entire plant? That might help to ID it.

Congrats, Terrie! Only one of my Sulphurs made it. See this link: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/754499/

Becky,

You'll have more before you know it. It seems like every time I look in the butterfly garden I see another sulphur. I watched another one today laying eggs. The leaves on my Cassia Alata have a ton of eggs on them. I picked up another alata at a plant sale this weekend.

Out of the 5 cats I've had in the cage the past week or so I have 3 pupas, 1 looking for a place to pupate, and an orange barred that eclosed and I released today. I think the sulphurs are going to catch up to my GFs. I also found about a dozen BST eggs this morning, and watched a BST laying eggs at lunchtime. I've had a couple weeks of slow time, but now things are picking up again.

Terrie

Well well...It finally happened for me too, SULPHUR laying eggs all ova my Candletree!! Now to find as many as I can and set them up b4 they all hatch. I've waited for several years, each year growing the Cassia alata, (same plant as you Terrie)... to no avail. Neither would it bloom. Seems to only bloom in years we get a lot of rain here in N TX.
Now to account for what I've done differently this year: I selected a slew of nectar plants that hummers love...and Sulphurs love the same ones..Salvia (B&B), S. gregii, S. splendens, Cuphea (Cigar), Cuphea (Batface) & (Tiny Mice).. Planted all of the above in full sun along with the Cassia.
I only have a couple more butterflies that I've planted hosts for that have not come to lay eggs....yet. The 2 main ones are Spicebush ST, and a long shot Zebra ST. As it stands I am happy as a little pink pig.. Getting the last 2 would be icing.

:-D

Yay!
I can't believe you haven't had them before now. I've only had my Cassia since about April. They found it almost immediately. And they have been laying bunches of eggs.

I released another sulphur this morning and looked at the 8 or 9 cats I have in the cage. A couple are huge and should be ready to pupate.

We want pictures of your babies as they are growing.

Terrie

Thx Terrie, I will certainly share as I can get pics.
The thing is, I live in FW TX which is quite a way away from the tropical habitat where Sulphurs are found more abundantly. The rain has made a big difference this year, and I'm glad I didn't give up on them. In FL, lots of people have the various Cassia/Sennas, they live year round there. Here in Ft Worth they have a shorter growing season, (about 6 mos.) and it is rare to see people growing them with any consistancy.
Getting them to come to me has been a seriously huge challenge. My SIL has grown Candletrees for a long time here in FW. She gave me one about 15 years ago, and I fell in love with it. Couple years after that I found out they were a larval host for Sulphur Butterflies. Ever since the first one, I've planted them every year in Spring, and never could get Sulphurs to come this far in the middle of suberbia to lay their eggs. I must have been way out of their path.
Hopefully now thet they are going to be established at this very spot on the planet. Maybe they will keep coming, now that I have a hold on how to properly welcome them.

:-D