SASE Etiquette
PLEASE when you agree to send a SASE (Self Addressed Stamped Enveloped) OR just Self Addressed Envelope with postage money would you include the following:
1) Tell the sender WHAT seeds you have requested. Even if you just write the seeds varieties on the flap of the envelope being RETURNED to you, some traders have 10 or 20 trades going on at one time.
2) Include your email address - I am in the midst of about 40 trades and you would not believe how many people do not include their email address. NO email address, so I cannot let them know I have received their postage and that their seeds are on the way.
3) Also if a legal size envelope (4 1/2 " x 9 1/2") is requested DO NOT send a 3" x 4" envelope or a 12" x 15" envelope. OR worse still not include ANY envelope, I must have so far had to address 10 envelopes, as NO envelopes were included. Very time consuming and also there is a margin for error - someone else writing out your address.
SASE Etiquette
I don't think there is anything worse than someone sending you an envelope, and having no indication as to what they are sending it for! I'm not that good of a guesser! Even if we are trading, it's best to show what you are trading for... like "Here are these cosmos seeds, in exchange for the hollyhocks you offered". It doesn't take more than a minute to drop a quick note on a scrap of paper in an envelope. Thanks all!
Amanda :)
We had a longish thread on this topic awhile ago, but it sure bears repeating.
The real killer, Amanda, was that I was recently taken to task for suggesting the note thing to somebody who sent me an SASE with no indication as to what it was for.
When I finally tracked the person down, I was told I had some nerve asking her to do that, and that I should have kept her original request.
I'm in touch with literally hundreds of seed traders all over the world. Can you imagine the record keeping mess I'd have if I kept a copy of every casual request.
I'm not talking about hard trades, here. I'm talking about things like getting an email asking how the person can get some of my seeds for an SASE, and I send back instructions.
In any particular year, 40% to 60% of those communications end right there. I never hear back from the people again. So I don't keep records of them. Then, when I do recieve an SASE with no indication as to what it's for, what do I do? Don't want the people to think I'm burning them. But I don't know what to send, either.
Once there's been a real trade consumated, they go in my log, which includes full name, address, and email, plus what I sent them and what they sent me. But until such a log entry is made, for practical purposes the requestor doesn't exist.
As gardendragon indicated, even a simple "for xyz tomatoes" written on the flap avoids these problems, and the subsequent hard feelings.
Brook, like you I keep records of my 'real trades' in an excel spread sheet. I also do not keep 'casual queries'.
Thankfully I do find that being here at Daves Garden it is SOOOOO much easier to keep track of everyone.
I am also learning NOT to give out my address till it is a firm trade, that way hopefully will avoid mystery requests months later!
Gardendragon,
Don't see how not giving out my address would work. I work on the assumption that if somebody asks for a hard trade or an SASE exchange that they are serious. If not, I'd just wind up ignoring lots of people---especially newbies---which I don't want to do.
It's never really been a problem, before. But when I recieved that note (which, BTW, came from somebody right here at DG) I was really shocked.
Let's face it, we are always going to get strange requests. Got one yesterday, for instance. An unsigned email that simply said, "how many packets to you send? And what varieites?" Like I'm supposed to figure that one out.
But I'd never before been made the bad guy because the other person hadn't done what she was supposed to. That, to say the least, was strange.
I don't want to sound like a meanie but...
To me SASE are for
1) Kids
2) New gardener or new to DG
3) Fellow traders when they don't have something you want
4) Folks that can't afford to buy seeds
It seems that some folks want to SASE their entire garden and flower bed every year and give/offer nothing in return.
Please remember that when you SASE something that person is giving it to you.
The big meanie, lol!
Sari
I just finished a strange sase, today. The sender had the stamp on the opposite side of the envy. I had to cut the stamp off the envy and paste it on one of my envys and the same with her address, plus the stamp was a 34 cent stamp, I am putting the extra 11 cents in postage on. This takes extra time and by the way, we are doing them a favor. I have 2 sase's that do not have enough postage, which I expressed them to put 45 cents postage on. These are bean seeds I am sending and they would be crushed without the right handling. Then they would problably want me to replace them at my expense entirely.
Once, a person sent me a note stating which seeds she requested for sase, and that I shouldn't forget the bubblewrap. I didn't forget the bubblewrap, but sent a nice note back with the seeds, saying that was the responsiblity of the person sending the sase.
All in all I love sharing my gardens bounty and will keep on. The people who send enough postage, I give extra different varieties of seed.
Sari,
Maybe I've just been fortunate. I've gotten SASE requests from all four of your categories, and honor them. But to the best of my knowledge, I have never gotten one from that fifth variety. Maybe they're more prevelant with flower people than veggie people??
I would modify your #2, however, to include experienced gardeners who are new to heirlooms.
It's not just with gardening where the use of simple etiquette has fallen on hard times.
I sympathize with your SASE plight.
(Geez, have some consideration, people. Think.)
Mike
I got one last week I loved. This SASE is for cleome and for something else but I forgot what.
Brenda
Brook,
I would include them in #2. I send out TONS of SASE every year however I never advertise that. Just last month I sent out an SASE to some kids. The postage was $5, that's a lot of seeds. Last year I send a package to a group teaching inter-city folks how to garden. I even paid the postage, over $10. That's only some of the SASE I've done. I don't want people thinking I don't SASE. I Do. I will SASE with anyone that asks.
I just think people requesting SASE should realize that you are doing them a favor.
Absolutely right, Sari.
The key point is that you are doing the requester a favor. It is not something they have a right to. And when you are doing a favor, it behooves the other people to be as gracious about it as possible.
Anybody who has an attitude, who thinks that you should be the one to worry about adequate padding, and proper packaging, and keeping their records for them, etc. etc., just doesn't deserve your seeds.
I just have to add my personal SASE pet peeve-SASEs that are requested with no follow through.
I posted a trade request in December and had 13 people request SASEs. While I am happy to do SASEs, I specifically requested in every single exchange that I wanted all SASEs to me within two weeks (by the end of December). Out of a total 13 SASE requests, I actually received 6, the last of which came the first week of February!
As a result of this experience, I have just amended my trade page to say that I will hold SASEs ten days and then I will trade the seeds. I also will not trade with folks who don't follow through on a SASE request.
I don't mean to be small, but if I'm going to take the time to gather, clean, and package the seeds for SASE, provide bubblewrap, and keep track of the SASE request, I think a timely envelope is not much to ask. SASEs are a gift from the sender, and we all need to remember as much. Thanks for letting me vent!
Being a new gardener I have requested many SASE. Everyone was extremely nice and willing to share as I assume they would rather share than watch them go to waste. I cant wait to have "haves"....although I have seen many postings where people have requested just SASE.
Yes I was hoping to fill my new garden with SASE seeds. I didnt look at it as being too cheap to buy my own because when you think of it it costs one dollar by the time the trade is done. I guess I just enjoy filling my "garden time" by sending out SASE and receiving them in the mail. I would rather go thru the work of filling out the sase and pulling them out of the mailbox and reading the quick note of kind words than going to the store and buying them for 1.35. ( I lose 35 cents getting out of my car!)
I think I speak for all new gardeners that we DO appreciate the seeds and the time spent to send them out.
Perhaps if all goes well the seeds we collect at the end of season will be on your "want" list and we will be happy to send them for SASE.
Happy Gardening
Minnie
Minnie et als,
It is not a matter of sending them for an SASE or having them go to waste. Most seeds are easy to store until there is a need for them. In fact, with proper preparation and freezing, seeds remain viable for up to 40 years.
The reasons most of us are willing to send seeds for an SASE is because 1. We remember when we were beginners, and all the fine folks who took care of us; 2. We welcome the chance to help others enter the fraternity of gardeners; 3. We recognize that there are many reasons why somebody might not be able to trade, right now, but don't want them to be deprived of the particular variety; and 4. All sorts of variations on those themes.
Sad to say, however, there are people who take advantage of this, who think they have things coming to them, etc. And who do _not_ appreciate the fact that exchanging seeds for SASEs is, indeed, a gracious favor on the part of the sender.
My Momma taught me to always say please and thank you. But the world is full of people who don't, and all that that implies.
Frankly, I would rather send someone like you seeds gratis then to sell them to people like that. With you I know they are finding a good home with someone who cares about the basic courtesies.
Bonnierh: That's what I meant about "causual" requests. I do not keep records of those requests, nor do I put seed aside for them. When I actually get the SASE, I package the seed and send it out, then add the person to my log. But, until such time as I do recieve it, they do not exist so far as that trade is concerned.
The only exceptions are if I'm sending the seed without an SASE---which happens oftener than many people think. There are many reasons why I'll bear the costs of sending seed to a stranger, either because they have expressed a sincere desire for that variety, or I want to assure a widespread growing network to be sure that variety survives. And I'll tell you this; the bible understates it. I get it back more than tenfold from people who want to share with appreciative gardeners.
For example, there is somebody on this list who is sending me some seeds. He'd made reference to having this variety "somewhere," and I requested that when he found them I would like some. And he just told me in an email that he's included several other plant varieties from an exotic part of the world along with the ones I wanted. What's he want in terms of SASE, postage, or whathaveyou? Zero. He's doing it for the love of it.
I'm not naming him because I don't want to embarrass anybody. But I will say that traders like this more than make up for the very few who have a bad attitude.
Minnie,
You are exactly the kind of person I am more than willing to do SASE for!
Now what those of us who collect seeds need to do is help you learn to collect seeds this summer. That is a win win situation for everybody.
It's exactly like gardening. We plant a seed with you (the SASEs). You grow them this summer. We help you learn how to grow and collect seeds (the watering and weeding part). Then this coming fall & winter we trade with you, the harvest!
Aw, Sari, now you've gone and given the secret away.
I had her convinced we were altruistic, and you've confessed that we really do it for selfish reasons. She didn't have to know that right now. ;-)
I am truly sorry I opened this "Can of Worms". But maybe some people were not aware of 'what to do' and 'what NOT to do'?
It gives me great delight to spread my seeds around the world and that my seeds give pleasure to someone else.
Plus my garden is full of seeds from Ramon in Australia, Corina in Bermuda, Rachel in South Africa, Jan in the Chech Republic, Mark in England, Vincenzo in Italy, Peggy in Scotland, Nicoli in Russia and all my USA and Canadian friends. Every seed I have received and grown in my garden goes by your name, with a special place in my heart.
I just wish I could send the seeds out without asking for SASE or the cost of postage, but unfortunatel I live on a pension (measly government pension) and cannot afford to send out 40 plus packages of seeds at the average cost of $1.00, but because I have to ask for SASE, please give me as much information as possible when you send me your request. Thanks and happy gardening in 2001.
Gardendragon,
I don't think you open up a can of worms. I think you are a very generous person and very kind for helping others. I hope other realize that as well.
Gardendragon,
If it were a can of worms, I am glad you opened them.
I am a NEWBIE BIG time!!! I appreciate the tips on how to do the SASE but unfortunately, my postage is in the mail already (I was not able to come online till late to see this post) and I think I broke all the rules = (
I am very sorry because I did not think of the things you listed. I did, however, add extra in the envelope so I hope that 'just this once' you will forgive the ignorance of the newbie and know that I am better informed now and that I appreciate it very much and that I will not make the same mistakes again. The rest of the group will thank you for showing me the way therefore, avoiding the mistake in the future.
Thanks for sharing the info. I know there will be more than just myself who gains knowledge from this post. = )
ICE