I know this has been discussed before but I am planning a thyme lawn with red creeping thyme but I need to know how far apart to plant the plugs?
Thyme lawns
This looked like a good info page to me, http://www.highcountrygardens.com/library/view/article/317/. They suggest 6 to 12 inches between plugs... From planting thyme in some small areas around the perimeter of my patio, I'd say that unless you enjoy weeding, plant them more closely if you can afford that many plugs, although it might help to put down a pre-emergent herbicide such as Preen. Also, I've had much better success getting thyme to "take"p during our hot summers by raking some moisture crystals into the top of the soil (don't exceed the recommended amount per square foot, even if it seems low, or you'll have fat "jello" cubes popping up all over after a good rain)... Just because thyme is drought tolerant doesn't mean it does not like to be watered regularly, especially with new little plants, and those polymer crystals can really help.
If you don't want to pay for as many thyme plugs as you think you'll need and if you can delay your plans a bit, I've had really good luck propagating thyme in window box planters (the cheap plastic ones) or other containers... space plants 6 inches apart and guide new growth into the spaces between the plants where the stems will "layer" themselves and put down roots... water daily... In a fairly short time, you'll have a solid sheet of thyme with roots 4 inches deep, and you can chop this into little plugs or larger pieces for planting out. I'd suggest using containers that are 4 to 6 inches deep. A nursery flat that holds 2 inches of potting mix would work, but you'll get better roots in a slightly deeper container, and that will help. For a big project, I'm thinking that a couple of large under-bed storage boxes might work well for propagating... Drill holes in the bottom for drainage, of course (you'll still be able to use them for storage later, just not for anything liquid).
I had some big (14" diameter) bowl-shaped plastic planters that I bought at the dollar store, filled them with good potting mix (added moisture crystals and Osmocote -- the 3 month 14-14-14- stuff for veggies), and I put a single thyme plant (3 inch pot) in the center... in 6 to 8 weeks, the plants had grown so that they completely carpeted the surface, and their roots filled the planter.
Thank you , That helps immensely! I am planning to buy plugs from an internet company with prices about 50 dollars for 128 plugs which may be cheaper (after buying moisture crystals, potting soil, planters, etc) than doing it myself for the amount that I need.
That sounds like a good price, although I wonder if that's more than one flat or just really small plugs... I've started seeds (for lettuce plugs) in 72 cell flats, but I've never gone down smaller than that... the cells in the 128 flats are pretty teeny (that's 128 plugs in a flat measuring 10 by 20 inches). I wouldn't plan on spacing them more than 6 inches apart, and I think you might have better success if you up-potted them into larger cell-packs and let them grow a bit bigger before setting them out.
You might also consider seeding additional thyme between the plugs, if you can find seed for the same variety (hmm, that could be tricky, so be careful... I'm sure you want to end up with a uniform effect).
Thanks for the warning. I was planning 9" apart and waiting until September to plant, a lot cooler then. Since I need 4 trays I don't know if I really want to replant 500 plants into cell packs! I'll have to think about that! Perhaps I'll just pay extra and get double 72 packs! I didn't realized they were different sizes - I thought they were just bigger trays.
This message was edited Jul 1, 2007 3:40 PM
Here's a link to the various plug flats that Johnny's sells... I was amazed to see that plugs can be even small than the 128 size! http://www.johnnyseeds.com/catalog/subcategory.aspx?category=292&subcategory=612
I don't think I'll be getting those!
Right! I just figured you could use a page that showed all the different plug sizes or number of cells per flat...
I think it's a good idea to wait until fall to plant as you said. Meanwhile, you can do all the site preparation stuff... if you're killing the grass with roundup, sometimes you need a second application a few weeks later to really get it all... you do *not* want to be pulling little grass blades up from between your thyme plants! I thought that High Country Gardens site had some good and rather specific advice about prep work, and hopefully their methods would apply for your location also.
The grass is already gone! My DH has been working on it for the past few weeks. It was in such bad shape that I mowed it (or sheared it). He tilled it up and raked it smooth. A few weeds have sprung up but no grass!, He is putting in some raised beds and some trellises. I have to order some topsoil to fill the beds and add to the soil where the thyme is going. I still have to put in my irrigation system for the beds and the thyme - I started working on that today!
I read the article and I'll add bone meal and compost but I'm not to fond of the idea of using rooting hormones and synthetic polymers since I will be planting vegetables in the same area so - I'll have to do that the old fashioned way and put them in and pray.
I'm not familiar with the "root stimulator pack" stuff they suggest... and I have no idea if mixing some rooting hormone into your water (or using willow water, if you want something more natural) will help the new thyme plugs layer and spread. However, I am a huge fan of using polymer moisture crystals. See http://www.watersorb.com/index.htm for information on the crystals and their application rate as well as for an inexpensive source. I use them with herbs and veggies as well as in containers of ornamentals, and if we were to plow up our lawn in back and reseed (which we've considered), I would definitely apply them there as well. They break down (harmlessly) in two or three seasons, by which time your new thyme lawn should be nicely established.
BTW, here's another thread on thyme that might have some ideas you could use, http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/694090/
Thanks, after reading more about it I went ahead and ordered some. I think it will help out a lot, especially here in my dry area.
The general rule of thumb with herbs is that the do not like a fertile soil. Think about going light on the compost and the bone meal. I planted saffron crocus in my thyme and in the fall I get purple crocus popping up all over.
I'm not sure that's true... while many herbs will survive in a leaner and drier soil than other plants require, they seem to respond really well to food and water (but be sure they have excellent drainage).
I love the idea of planting crocus bulbs (maybe spring ones too, although I do love saffron crocus) while you're installing your new thyme lawn!
Fine! Now I have to pick out a color! http://www.vanengelen.com/catview.cgi?_fn=Product&_category=Crocus
Van Engelen sells bulbs in bulk because I'm going to need about 150 of them
Here's the area where I am planting. The outlines are where the flower beds are going
This was, until recently, what I considered the worst yard in the neighborhood! Now it's looking pretty good. Pretty sad when dirt looks better than your lawn did!
This message was edited Jul 2, 2007 8:06 PM
LOL... actually, I'm thinking you'll need 150 early spring crocus, possibly another 100 of the bigger, later blooming ones, and 150 saffron crocus for fall blooms! Maybe you can wait on some of those and pick them up during the fall sales... your thyme lawn won't fill in immediately, and you'll have little spaces where you can pop in little clumps of bulbs! ;-)
I like your layout! Will you be doing pathways or stepping stones also?
There will be a middle bed and stepping stones around that. So where do I find the saffron crocus at a good price? Van Engelen has good prices. 100 bulbs for about 16 dollars and has a good selection of crocus bulbs but not the saffron crocus. My DH is almost finished with the beds and I'll post another picture.
I just found them at bloomingbulb.com!
Good! I've received great bulbs from Van Engelen, Brent & Becky's, and Bloomingbulb... but I think my saffron crocus have all come from Aaron Schnebly's eBay shop, "Rare Bulbs and Plants" (if you Dmail him, you can get price breaks on quantities and larger orders... he's always treated me well).
If you don't have your heart set on a particular variety of crocus, you can get even better prices after Thanksgiving... there always seem to be some crocuses in B&B's half price sale. Wait... you live in CO... you probably can't dig into the frozen ground that late in the year! :-)
I love to see bare dirt. It's like an empty canvas. Your plans sound beautiful. Where I live lavender and thyme grow well together. The lavender seems more drought tolerant, though. But, not much more. I planted culinary thyme and I walk around it.
This is what my yard looks like today!
Way cool!!!
What do you have planned for that middle bed? Lavender would be lovely....
This year its going to be lettuce and next year potatoes but if I ever decide I don't want to do a veggie garden I'll definitely think of Lavender!
Lettuce sounds great! You might try planting red lettuce or 'Rainbow Lights' chard around the edge for a decorative (and tasty) border... I've used both to edge my front landscape bed, and everyone wanted to know what sort of wonderful plant I'd put in, LOL.
I just ordered "bright lights" chard! for that very thing!
Great choice -- and it'll keep going in hot weather, too, unlike most lettuce. There are a lot of pretty veggies... have you ever seen the blooms on okra? :-)
I haven't seen the blooms on okra, but then I had no idea what okra was until I was in my teen's. It's not something that is commonly eaten out here but it does grow out here, though I'm not sure how it does in my area.
I did look them up and they look kind of like hibiscus!
Duh! It is a hibiscus! Hibiscus esculentus, Geez, now I have to see if I can grow it! It's beautiful! And it comes in dwarf forms!
This message was edited Jul 5, 2007 8:28 AM
This message was edited Jul 5, 2007 8:33 AM
It comes in red, also... :-)
'Sweet Pickles' pepper is another of my favorite edible ornamentals, and I think all the chile peppers are attractive... I saw a landscape bed in NC last week that was planted with purple chile peppers (dark purple foliage, lavender blooms), and orange cannas, definitely a striking combination. Although they're all technically edible, some peppers are best suited to just be "ornamental" since they have little flavor beyond being hot... but I do like 'Bolivian Rainbow'.
Remind me this fall/winter, and I'll send you some seeds... I should have some for 'Sweet Pickles' (I have a couple of plants fruiting early, so I know they haven't crossed... no need to bag them for purity, hooray... I'll try not to eat all of them!), and I should have 'Bolivian Rainbow' (hmm, better check to be sure, now I can't remember if those plants are BR or 'Flourescent Purple') and 'Pretty Purple Pepper' also. 'PPP' is definitely ornamental rather than tasty, but the dwarf plants are just so cute with their round purple peppers (like little gumballs).... I use them as an edging plant.
I also like 'Wild Cherry' currant tomatoes in an landscape bed... the vines just ramble around, and I think the foliage is attractive, and the tiny tomatoes have such huge flavor. I get volunteers each year now in my oriental lily bed, and they provide one of my favorite summer garden snacks!
Chard might do well for you. Artichokes are interesting to look at, too. What a nice yard.
Mobi, Your garden bed layout is quite nice. I've been watching this thread with interest and getting lots of wonderful hints and ideas for the future. I was going to plant a long narrow strip down the center of the driveway with a mix of thyme, chamomile, oregano, and moss phlox but didn't get to it in time this spring. I like the idea of planting saffron crocus among the thyme. Do you think it is better to plant just thyme or do you think a mixture (I'm thinking of a tapestry of leave shapes and colors ) of plants will work as well? Are there any other ground cover herbs or plants that could be included in a hot strip of garden ?
I temporarily planted some of the plants I purchased for the driveway strip in another small area I had open and they are growing well and I'm hoping to divide them next spring.
Unfortunately my camera is broken and the new one I ordered is lost in the mail so I can't show how it has filled in.
I've got Phlox subulata and creeping 'Translucent Golden' thyme growing together in a little rock garden at the ends of my and my neighbor's driveways. That's definitely a hot, dry area, but they do fine!
I like the combination of colors and textures, but I think it depends on the look you're going for... A solid swatch of just one kind of plant would look more formal, but you could also get a semi-formal effect by sticking to the phlox and lower-growing thymes, with fall and spring blooming crocus for seasonal color. I'd love to break up the expanse of our driveway with a planting strip! I think it'll work out well, whichever plants you choose.
I've also got thyme and phlox around the perimeter of our little patio... I did a good bit of watering the first year or so until they filled in and became established, but they're dense enough now that I'm only pulling an occasional weed. I know I keep repeating this bit of advice, but consider tilling polymer moisture crystals into your driveway strip bed to help the plants get started.
Here's some phlox and creeping English-type thyme in spring, by my patio rock. This is a thyme I grew from seed, and it does get about 6 inches tall when it blooms... It's about the same shade of green as the phlox, so the contrast is a lot more subtle when the plants aren't blooming.
I just wanted to add that I think there's another aspect to mixing different plants for a border or even a lawn effect... Different plants seem to do better in different years, so the look will change depending on which varieties are dominant that year, but if you only plant one variety, and it has a bad year, the look will be sparse.
Very pretty critterologist. It does look semi-formal with just the 2 kinds of plants. What variety of phlox subulata do you have in the 1st photo with the red eye? and the solid red?
I think the P. subulata in the first photo was a local purchase without a cultivar name, and those in the second photo were from Bluestone, but... the pink and white one is probably 'Candy Stripes' http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/49968/, but I'm not sure about the others. Bluestone does have a nice selection, and their little plants have done well for me.