Hiya folks,
I wanted to start a thread on your favorite native flower, except I am looking for ones that are highly decorative, not necessarily wildflowers, does that make sense? I am trying to get a garden for the birds and butterflies, but I don't want 6'0 prairie coneflowers and weedy looking asters. In fact, I don't think I want any wildflower weeds at all. Do you have any suggestions? I am cone flowered out, BTW.
Blue Porterweed was one that was suggested to me, along with Baikal Skulcap? I think that was it. Woud there be any selections of Blue Porterweed that are less weedy looking than the species?
Thanks,
Suzy
Is the opposite of Invasive always Native?
You'd have to describe your site conditions more fully to get good suggestions.
Of course, you aren't asking for much either.
Maybe you want one of the cultivared/selected forms of a native herbaceous plant (generated for the human rather than the wildlife eye) like one of the compact Solidago like 'Fireworks'.
But then, I don't know that qualifies as "native" in everybody's book.
Yes! Just like that -- do you have any particular favorites?
Speaking of 'Fireworks', do the birds/butterflies still like it in its refined form?
I have all site conditions here...wet shade, dry shade, wet sun, dry sun, bad soil, good soil and really, really free draining soil plus sort of a non draining-high water table, in both full sun and full shade. Plus a woods. Sort of a woods, I mean.
Suzy
To answer the question in your thread title--no, the opposite of invasive isn't always native, there are plenty of introduced species that are well behaved.
I've found that native plants can be quite decorative, I've got a whole bed full of only CA natives and once the plants have grown in a bit more it's going to be beautiful--not looking weedy at all. I don't know much about midwest natives, but I have to think if you choose the right ones you could end up with quite a nice attractive garden.
Virginia creeper is native and is super invasive! Poison ivy, wild blackberry, wineberry, etc.
Welllll, ecrane, I'm not sure that's true,,,with the woodland widflowers, yes, it is very true, but they are ethereal, and it's the later ones I'm wondering about. The sunflowers (helianthus, I think) are little 2" daisies on 48-54 inch tall plants. Not worth the garden space, as one plant has a four foot diameter in a garden setting.
Somehow I think the CA natives are a different kettle of fish LOL!
So, getting back to it -- what are your favorite ornamental flowers consisting of cultivated/selected forms of a native herbaceous plant (generated for the human rather than the wildlife eye). Thanks VV for the exact wording on that!
Suzy
There are a bunch in the Sedum genus that probably satisfy your requirements, especially for a different texture and late summer color. I'm not your best source for current info (woodies guy, mostly), but 'Autumn Joy' has been time-tested and I'm certain there are others varying in color/stature. The drier-site species of Amsonia are pretty pleasing, offering late spring light blue blooms and stunning soft fine foliage and fabulous golden fall color (A. hubrechtii or A. hubrichtii?).
Wet sunny spots ought to invest in various native Iris, Carex, Juncus, and Scirpus. The array of interesting foliage and flowers on these plants would enrich any garden.
OK, I'm worn out.
illoquin,
You've asked a lot of interesting questions.
First , in my opinion, invasive is not the opposite of native. I agree with ecranes answer, there are plenty of exotics that are welll behaved in the garden.
Your second implied question is trickier to answer. Can you have a pretty, well designed native plant garden using cultivars rather than species and still attract and feed birds, hummers. butterflies, etc. I want the answer to be yes because that has been my compromise. I do think that the straight species is better for the creatures. I also think leaving the plants alone in a natural state to harbor different stages of insect animal growth is also better for them. A wild messy natural space is what the creatures prefer.
I do use species when possible but manage the space they take up. Those tall "weedy" asters just need to be cut back twice before bloom and be thinned to be well behaved.
I do like to recreate the feel of a prairie or woodland so I plant to capture that feeling. In my small space I frequently chose cultivars and select exotics to work together with species.
For sun,
Coreopsis Moonbeam and Stokesia (Stokes aster) is a good front of the border combination. Moss Phlox subulata is an easy ground cover.
Miss Lingard is a pretty white Phlox that starts early and blooms through the summer.
Any of the Baptisias species or cultivars are beautiful large shrub size plants with multi season interest. My favorite is a white form pendula.
Any number of Penstemons are pretty, Husker red, Sour Grapes to name a few.
Chelone (turtle head) Hot lips.
Veronicastrum virginicum (culver's root), Album-white, Fascination-rose.
Geum triflorum (Prairie smoke).
Aquilegia canadensis.
As VV suggested Amsonia, the smaller one amsonia tabernaemontana var montana
VV,
The sedum Autumn Joy is a nice plant but not native.
The photo has the colombine and Amsonia blooming together.
This message was edited Jun 9, 2007 5:43 AM
This message was edited Jun 17, 2007 4:57 PM
VV & Semper,
That was more what I was looking for. The Park's Sale has 'Little Joe' Joe Pye Weed offered and I bought one. Am I asking for trouble? Should I make sure I cut back the flowers so it doesn't reseed? I wonder if there is a short version of Iron Weed?
Has anybody had luck confining Milkweed? Or found a pretty garden variety? I know there are a lot out there, but I wondered if anybody has actually grown one for a few years. The mauve ones we have here are not attractive in a garden setting because they are very coarse and run rampant.
Semper - the pics, as always., are wonderful. Is that an unblooming Phlox in the front left corner? Which Asters do you prefer for bright color? I tired to wintersow 'Bluebird', but nothing came up.
On a garden like yours, do you let the stuff reseed? Or do you cut it back after bloom?
Thanks for the photo -- it would be very nice right here at my place.
Suzy
Illoquin,
Thank you for the compliment on the photo. You are correct in identifying the unblooming plant as a Phlox. I 'll have to look up the cultivar but I do remember it's a pale lavender color.
I only have the standard purple aster, probably Aster novae-angliae, New England aster that was given to me years ago. I just keep dividing it and adding it here and there.
The Stokesia laevis has a whole other look. Stokes' aster, is a summer bloomer with large, 3"-4" blooms. I have a rich red violet cultivar called Purple Parasols. There is a wonderful ice blue cultivar, Omega Skyrocket, that is outstanding.
I do have the pink swamp milkweed, Asclepias incarnata. I've grown this for years and find it easy to manage. I also grow butterfly weed, Asclepias tuberosa and also find this one easy to maintain.
I generally let most plants remain over the winter and don't cut back until spring. Most plants are left to reseed unless they deteriorate in appearance to a really ratty look. But I thin plants regularly. I also use native grasses so they form a full backdrop for the other plants. I think the grasses define the whole border. By the fall you see mainly the grasses so whatever else is forming seed heads compliments the grass. Actually, for the penstemon Husker Red, I like the seed heads as much as the flowers. When they first form they are a rich ruby color that although small positively glow in the sun.
The plant I do carefully manage is Black-eyed Susan. But even with that plant I leave the seed heads for the birds and just pull out any plants I don't want in the spring.
Suzy,
I have dealt with the Prairie Nursery in Westfield, Wisconsin in the past when I lived in Dayton, OH. I went to their website this morning and kept selecting various choices that might pertain to what you want. This is the page that I selected for you to look at. The plants I selected are short, I selected clay soil, & full sun. All you have to do to get something out of these selections is to click on the common name of the plant for the picture & description. There are other ways to use their website by selecting various other choices that describe exactly what your conditions are and what you want. It is a very informative site as is their paper catalog which I used before I had a computer!!! Don't know if I can grow any of these plants where I have lived for 10 days. LOL
Karin in Charlotte, NC
http://www.prairienursery.com/plant_info/by_habitat/full_sun/FSMC_1to4.htm
Oh, that is so cool, Karin, Thanks!
Would you believe I grow cultivated forms of almost all of these? (That's probably the problem)
This one looks quite nice and is nothing like anything I already have: Zizia aurea http://www.prairienursery.com/store/index.php?main_page=mag_product_plant_info&products_id=284
and so does the Dalea....I wonder if it grows erect or flops over like the Mexican Hats?
http://www.prairienursery.com/store/index.php?main_page=mag_product_plant_info&products_id=197
Suzy
A few comments. Scutelaria bacailensis (Bakal skullcap) is really cool. Easy and a long-bloomer, but it is not native and seeds abundantly. The Veronicastrum idea is great. I don't find that weedy at all. Understated, really, despite its relative height. Any Baptisia is a great, very non-weedy-looking plant. "Purple Smoke" is almost formal in symmetry and stature. Geum is a nifty little plant--quite long in interest. Phlox paniculata is nice.
Scott
Suzy, your mexican hats fall over? Are they Ratibida columnifera? Also, the Dalea purpurea is upright.
Thank you Scott. I didn't know any of that, and those look like ones that could easily be grown here.
Terry, Thanks for the informatiuon on Dalea. The Mexican Hats were from Bluestone: RATIBIDA columnifera Red Midget. They fell over the first year and I didn't keep them around a second year, so I'm not sure if they would have outgrown that habit or not. They were so "nothing" and I didn't like anything about them.
Suzy
Suzy,
For a really great garden near you to see many perennials growing, you should check out the gardens near and around the Indy Art Museum (if you haven't already). A lot of great ideas to behold there. I particularly remember a grand stand of Chelone in a border, and a ton of wonderful grasses.
scott
I'll second the Indianapolis Museum of Art landscape. The memory is fading (last visit around 2000), but it was designed by a famous landscape architect and has undergone renovation/rehabilitation in the last ten years to resurrect original design intent.
Better than that -- Spence Restoration Nursery has contributed significant plants to this effort, and uses the site to do research on underused herbaceous plants for landscape plantings. These are fantastic folks, though I believe they are solely wholesale to the trade. We have purchased their plants since I learned of their operation in Muncie, IN many years ago. Kevin Tungesvick is as fine a fellow as you'd ever want to meet, and a font of information for Indiana.
I'd ask him your original questions, and throw away everything else.
Hi, Illoquin, Thanks for directing me over to this thread. Interesting ideas here. Funny about our common interest in Zizia!
Likewise, my ratibidas from Bluestones are floppy, but I still think its kind of cute in a forlorn kind of way! And I just purchased 5 of those 'Little Joe' Eupatoriums today. We'll let you know how agressive they are come August--I couldn't resist them on the dollar sale table. Now I think I know why they were there! We have similar taste in border flora!
I know I've said it before, but I like Liatris. I have about 5 varieties and they are so fun for the goldfinches and butterflies, especially late in the season. Many native to the Indiana prairie, I think. And physogeia (not the right word but you know what I mean), another native, went to finishing school with 'Miss Manners' and that one seems to be fairly respectful of space in our sunny border. Nice late season bloom, too. (although I remember now you don't like white flowers.)
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PHVI8
BTW Another Indiana source I like for area natives is Munchkins Nursery near Louisville
http://www.munchkinnursery.com/index.html
He makes some interesting recommendations in his essays.
My garden is pretty messy looking--my Tracy Aust (?) book on perennial pruning helps me keep some of my so-called natives in line a bit---I keep thinking if I prune appropriately, someday I will have an Ohio version of a Piet Oudolf garden! LOL Not!!
Again, thanks for all the good ideas. t.