what parts of canada are most like growing zone 7 in U.S.?

Hey Canadians.

We're probably moving to CA in the next couple years. We can pretty much locate anywhere -- though I know BC is reputed to be very costly -- and I'd like to live where I can grow many of the plants I'm used to growing here on the East coast at Washington, D.C.

But where to begin to figure that out? I'm in zone 7 here. I saw a CA map showing a zone 7, and decided it couldn't be the same zone system we use here in the U.S. because Ontario gets a lot colder winters than DC.

Last fall I toured Ontario looking at places I might like to live. I want to live in Algonquin Park! LOL. But since that's pretty much a reserve, maybe some place LIKE that...rocky, beautiful, not overpopulous, maybe mountainous, with hemlocks and oaks and wild blueberries like the mountains here at home.

Didn't see a whole lot of azaleas in ON...and no rhododendrons...DC is an azalea capital. But I know I can grow bulbs and perennials from daffodils to daylilies....iris? peonies? poppies? sweet bay magnolia? korean spice viburnum?

How to find out? And what plants do I have to expect to give up?

Robert Riddle
(picture of a corner of my garden)

Welcome Robert! As far as I am aware, the mildest zone we have here in Ontario (other than pockets of micro-climates perhaps) is USDA zone 6b - mostly in the extreme southwesterly portion of the province. Unfortunately, that is probably the flattest land you'll find east of the prairies.

If you want zone 7 you'll pretty much be restricted to coastal BC and Vancouver Island. If you're willing to go to a colder zone then there are many areas of Canada that have forested, rocky and/or mountainous terrain. Northern Ontario is getting a little on the cool side of our zones, and all of the eastern provinces from Ontario across have beautifully scenic country.

To the west, Alberta is majestic. I'm sure some of our members from Saskatchewan and Manitoba will be along to tell you about the merits and beauty of their provinces too.

If you are willing to overwinter your tender plants in a greenhouse or in your house, then there is very little you will actually have to give up - only those that don't overwinter well. Many of us grow tropicals - outdoors during the gardening season and indoors or in a greenhouse in the winter.

I hope this helps you a little.

--Ginny

Hi Robert and welcome! I think Ginny has pretty well summed up the various areas. Good luck as you make your choice.

Ann

If you liked Algonquin, look at Dorset or Haliburton.

Inanda

It sounds like some areas of Vancouver Island would do well. There are pockets of 9a in Saanich Peninsula. On the coast you can go from 8b to 4/5 in a 20 minute drive up the mountain. There are areas between the coast and the interior that are around 7b - Harrison Hot Springs, Pemberton might a bit colder but nice, Powell River, BC

A sunset on the Seawall in Vancouver the other day

Gosh! Thank you ALL for the suggestions and information!
It'll be fun learning what grows in zone 5. Good info to help make decisions.
(Interesting...I had no idea Vancouver is actually a zone higher than DC).
Robert

Ah... the merits of lower zones! You can actually avoid the backbreaking work of gardening for 5 months of the year which gives you the time to plan the projects of the following spring/summer/autumn (a three to four month period here some years). What do we do with the other 3 or 4 months - haul everything out and set it up/ haul everything back in and clean up.
If you have a bent toward the certifiably insane; love attempting the impossible; and want to live in the most beautiful, friendly, exciting, frustrating geography in this great country come to sunny Alberta. But anywhere in this land is a glorious choice.

Hi Robert!
You have much to ponder and I hope the ultimate choice isn't too tough!
Ontario is beautiful, simply put. I'm not talking about anywhere within a 50 mile radius of the GTA though......you don't want to ever live here if you're not wanting to deal with significant population.
Frontenac County, in eastern Ontario, is a lovely area. I'm pretty partial to the central portion of the county as that is where I just bought 50 acres of land. There are oaks and blueberries but no major mountains,lol. There are however significant rock scapes as part of the Canadian Shield and majestic pines and wildlife everywhere. I love the little towns I encounter on my way up to my land and the people are seemingly friendly without being intrusive.....just laid back kinda. There is a major hospital in Kingston so not terribly far from emergency healthcare if needed.
Oh and LAKES! It is the county of a thousand lakes afterall! Always see folk fishing!

Maybe time for a song eh!

"Give us a place to stand

And a place to grow
And call this land Ontario
A place to live.
For you and me
With hopes as high
As the tallest tree
Give us a land of lakes
and a land of snow
And we will build Ontario
A place to stand, a place to grow
Ontari-ari-ari-o !

From western hills,
To northern shores.
To niagara falls,
Where the waters roar.
Give us a land of peace,
Where the free winds blow.
And we will build Ontario
A place to stand, a place to grow
Ontari-ari-ari-o !"

Cheers!
Erynne

My DB just bought a house in St Catharines. He's so excited abt going from a z4 (near Fenelon Falls) to z6-7. And I'm very envious!! lol

Saskatchewan..........the sunniest location in Canada (averages 2,500 hours of sunshine) Ü. ..... you have to be extremely hardy to live here though since our winters can hit -52 C (r3sb since you're gunna live somewhere in Canada I'll let you convert the above to Fahrenheit. ;)

Erynne you really have to take singing lessons! ;)

Yes, that would be true.....my lyrical outbursts have frightened many at times. Maybe I'll just hum,lol.

Oh dear, now I know the source of the song we used to sing as kids:

"A place to stay, a place to go, Ontari-ari-ario"


I'll never get it out of my head now. LOL.

Joanne

Erynne, you are an evil, evil woman. I haven't had that stuck in my head since I lived there in my late teens...eeeeee! I'm so susceptible, I'm going to be driving around singing it to myself for weeks, I just know it.

When that song came out, our elementary school learned it and then we went to Peterborough to the TV station and we sang it on air for some celebration - I'm guessing it was for the centennial in '67. And yes, it still goes round and round in my head! lol

Catchy little ditty eh? Sorry, didn't mean for it to get embedded in your brains,lol.

Funny how we all had to sing that in school plus a few other " feel good" songs.....how 'bout
"This land is your land, this land is my land,
From Bona Vista to Vancouver Island,
From the Arctic Islands to the Great Lakes waterrrrrrrrrrrs;
This land was made for you and me."

I wish we coulda sang "Bud the Spud" in school instead,lol.

"Hmm hmm hmm hmmmm hmmmm, hmm hmm hmm hmmmm hmmmm,"

This one is now stuck in my head too :-) I always kinda liked it though.

--Ginny......."Hmm hmmmm hmm hmmmm hm hm hm hmmmm!"

Ahhhh! I have to unwatch this thread!

Here's a safer song.....and if'n you know The Saskatchewan (and the province) it's worth a giggle or two. ;)


The Last Saskatchewan Pirate*

Well I used to be a farmer and I made a living fine
I had a little stretch of land along the C.P. Line
But times went by, and though I tried, the money wasn't there
And the bankers came and took my land, and told me "fair is fair".

I looked for every kind of job, the answer always no
"Hire you now," they'd always laugh, "we just let twenty go!"
The government they promised me a measly little sum
But I've got too much pride to end up just another bum

Then I thought, who gives a darn if all the jobs are gone,
I'm gonna be a PIRATE! on the river Saskatchewan.

(ar.. ar.. ar.....!)

'An it's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains
And it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores.

Arr!

Well you'd think the local farmers would know that I'm at large
But just the other day I saw an unprotected barge
I snuck up right behind them and they were none the wiser
I rammed their ship and sank it, and I stole their fertilizer.

A bridge outside of Moose Jaw spans a mighty river
Farmers cross in so much fear their stomachs are a-quiver
'Cause they know that Captain Tractor is hiding in the bay,
I'll jump the bridge and knock them cold and sail off with their hay.

'Cause it's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains
And it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores

Arr!

Well, Mountie Bob he chased me, he was always at my throat
He followed on the shoreline, 'cause he didn't own a boat,
But the cutbacks were a-coming and the Mountie lost his job
So now he's sailing with me and we call him Salty Bob.

A swinging sword, a skull-and-bones, and pleasant company,
I never pay my income tax and screw the G.S.T. (Screw it!)
Sailing down to Saskatoon, the terror of the sea
If you wanna reach the Co-op, boy, you gotta get by me!

It's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains
And it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores

Arr!
Arrr ya salty dog.. arrr ya salty gopher.. arrr ya salty bale ofhay!

Well pirate life's appealing but you don't just find it here
I heard that in North Alberta there's a band of buccaneers
They roam the Athabasca from Smith to Fort McKay
And you're bound to lose your Stetson if you have to pass their way

Well, winter is a-coming and a chill is in the breeze
My pirate days are over once the river starts to freeze
But I'll be back in springtime, but now I've got to go
I hear there's lots of plundering down in New Mexico.

'An it's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains
And it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores

'An it's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains
And it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores

'An it's a heave-ho, high-ho, coming down the Plains
Stealing wheat and barley and all the other grains

'An it's a ho-hey, high-hey, farmers bar your doors
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores
When you see the Jolly Roger on Regina's mighty shores


And so my voice ;) doesn't stick in your head here's The Arrogant Worms singing it: http://members.shaw.ca/mickee/blog_images/pirate/last_saskatchewan_pirate.htm (warning starts off slow but improves with time ;).

n.b. obviously written prior to the oil boom.

LOL That's a new one to me. Pretty funny!

We also sang This Land is Your Land and Canada Proudly We Hail Thee. Not sure if that is the title or the first line. It tends to go round and round also altho I've forgotten some of the lines.

(Pam, your labels are in Regina - sorry, forgot to let you know.)

;)

Thanks Laura! LOL here though since we just came back from there tonight but I'm sure we can get there sometime next week. Will have to get the details from you this weekend (I know I've got your phone number somewhere ;). P.S. One enormous Semi is now parked beside our house.......the film/movie company is emptying the garage this weekend. :S

BTW I was very careful early today since I was near Regina's mighty shores (twas even funnier prior to their digging Wascana out ;). *g*

Robert, are you still there? Are you singing along? You don't have to sing to live here, but it helps. I didn't go to school in Canada, so I don't know any anthems, but I sing the Lumberjack song from Monty Python ( "I'm a Lumberjack, and I'm OK..." ) to my husband when he gets the chainsaw out to do some logging.

This message was edited Jun 15, 2007 10:33 AM

Well we cant let British Columbia off the hook just because she's expensive. Where else can you have vineyards, deserts, rainforests, grasslands, boreal taiga and alpine tundra, lake country, AND palm trees? It costs a lot to keep all that going, ya know. Poor Robert. He's probably run screaming from the room by now. Pssst. Robert. WE have rhododendrons and azaleas up the WAZOO here.

WOW. You guys are funny! I hope that's a good sign for a future life in Canada. I can't carry a tune too well but something about this exchange makes me think I don't need to. ha ha.

I've only been quiet because we've been out of town. (Do Canadians call it "on holiday" like the Brits, or "on vacation" like in U.S.?)

We went to Peru. Amazing country. Highly recommend it. Did meet some Canadians...British...French...Peruvians, of course... AND THE PLANT LIFE...! Wow. And the birds. All kinds of colorful birds. Took an orchid tour near Machu Picchu.

If you want to see pictures they're at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9346217@N05/page12/
Plant pics start at page 12 and are found on most (lower #) pages after that. (For some reason the web site posts things backward from chronological).

Thanks again for the many suggestions. Now on a serious note...I want to ask for frank opinions and experience if anyone has any to share...

Love city life, for sure. No problem with heavily populated areas, especially with its mix of peoples and tons of activities including free stuff to do and see.

But I've long wanted to live and garden in a beautiful rural place. Have this idea about low cost of living, raising my own food, gardening 24/7...okay maybe only 24/7 for only 26 weeks of the year...maybe running a seasonal B&B...

Anyway, here's the serious bit: my partner is east Indian. And, we're a same-sex couple. (Hence, the need to get the hell out of Dodge...in the U.S., we can't marry, and same-sex families are not and may never be recognized under Federal law here -- thanks to Bill Spineless Amoral Clinton -- so immigration is a problem...partner came here to get a Masters, did, and is now getting his PhD, and after that is required to go back home...which he'd gladly do if we hadn't met and fallen in love...).

In some places, each of these qualities -- east Indian, same-sex family -- can prove fatal. I just finished reading someone's Doctoral thesis on anti-gay violence in Canada...and rural places have a pretty high incidence of hate crime and harassment, per capita...also the Mounties seem to have a long history of serious anti-gay persecution...sounds like the Maritime Provinces are out of the question because of longstanding, deeply-ingrained anti-gay hostility...The book is quite recent...

Sorry if this question isn't appropriate for a gardening forum...my focus really is on scenic rural locations for good gardening that, more than coincidentally, won't be hostile to live...Is this an impossible combination?

If anybody has any thoughts to share on the likelihood of not only being left in peace, but on possibly even being welcomed into a new -- rural -- community and thriving, let me know. Okay, thanks!

Robert

If you like a zone 8 area and want snow for a couple of days during winter. Southern Vancouver Island is the place for you!

Canadians, check out this picture from our trip in Peru...

We even saw fabric mini-flags with this same funny image!

LOLOL!!!!! That's absolutely hilarious!

So... that's what they think, EH? ;-)

Ah, yes, the Canadian pineapple flag. What a hoot!

On the subject of society, we (DH and I) live in a rural, mostly Caucasian, area and have a same-sex couple for neighbors, and there has never been anything but peace and goodwill actively expressed. The local small-town newspaper occasionally prints letters from the odd fundamentalist railing against same-sex marriage, but I haven't noted any religious, racial, or gay persecution happenning. In fact, our gay neighbors feel so comfortable here that they have sold their condo in Toronto and turned their weekend cottage into their permanent home.

There is a large East Indian community 80 km away in Brampton, just north of the Toronto international airport, with lots of ethnic stores and restaurants. Some East Indian entrepreneurs have begun to expand into the hinterland, recently opening a restaurant in the nearby town of Orangeville, and taking on a local gas station franchise (a field previously dominated by Iraqis and Russians). The only subject likely to get folks riled up around here is destruction of wildlife habitat and fertile farmland by gravel pits and housing developments, or Honda's plan to build an aluminum smelter near their Alliston auto plant.

Got to plug BC from the UK. Smashing growing area, I wish I still had that rather then the chilly damp UK I have now, is it expensive, it is a lot cheaper than Great Britain LOL.

It seems you have lots of choice. XX Jeannine

Castlegar_rock, is that a photo of your own garden? Gorgeous!

June_Ontario, THANKS! I checked out Google maps and see Rosemont is not too far from Collingswood. I toured up that way last fall -- have a former colleague in Beaver Valley (an American married a Canadian), and a former D.C. neighbor in Meaford now (his home town). That's a beautiful area! (But I see from your zone 4a it gets pretty darn cold...)

Robert

Here's a cool flower from Peru...

Robert, you may want to try to plug into the gay community in the city that is closest to the rural area you wish to find out about. Although those of us in smaller rural towns may not believe there are any problems of that nature in our areas, no one can actually know like someone who has lived, or is living it.

While I can't say that I have ever witnessed any homophobic or discriminatory tendencies in my very small village, I also have to point out that we are probably 99% caucasian and the only signs I have ever seen of same-sex couples were from the theatre community - and they don't live here year-round. I would hope that my neighbours are open and accepting of everyone, but I've never seen them put to the test so I don't know.

I hope you don't think that sounds terribly cynical or maybe even a little hostile - it's not meant to be. It is simply a very honest assessment from the point of view of someone who grew up in the school of hard knocks - in cities large and small, villages, and rural communities in both Ontario and B.C. - and I know for a fact that you can find both rednecks and angels side-by-side in the most unexpected places :-)

--Ginny

Hi Robert,
Erynne suggested Frontenac County and I second that idea. You would be close to Kingston, Belleville, Perth, even 1 1/2 hrs to Ottawa. The landscape is tough but tameable, and the closer to the Lakes you are, the more temperate the climate. This is my home, and here's a shot showing the glacial and volcanic ridges verging on the Big Rideau Lake.
The gay/mixed marriage thing... I think a non issue. There will always be backwoods boys, but not quite Ozarks. Move next to me, and we'll be best buds!

Hi Robert,
I live in the most southern city in Canada. Windsor is across from Detroit, so you can have the best of both world. I don't see the homosexual or the interracial thing as ANY sort of problem here.

We are a zone 6b and can grow pretty much everything you are used to. There are many fun things to do in Windsor, but we are a very VERY flat terrain. The only hills in Essex county are the city dump, the county dump and the ridge where the glaciers stopped on their descent (many moons ago)Being close to Detroit is good in the fact that we can go shopping statesside easily, and enjoy their festivals in the summer. They have the Woodward dreamcruise every year where everyone with old model cars cruises up Woodward Avenue just like in the days of yore. The only disadvantages that I can think of now off the top of my head is the HUMIDITY. We are surrounded by water on 3 sides of our county. (Lake St. clair, Detroit River, and Lake Erie) and all the water is too filthy to swim in. (I'm being completely honest.) But the people are friendly and easy going.
Good luck to you and your partner, and I hope where ever you choose to live, you both find happiness and acceptance.
Maureen

This message was edited Jul 21, 2007 11:53 PM

Maureen and Ginny,

You really bring a big smile to my face -- THANK YOU for your warm and kind wishes!

I see Maureen's near Windsor, and I actually visited Windsor last fall. I found it a very handsome little town. (You're right, it's remarkably flat around there - smile).

I've got one more specific plant question. Does Paulownia tomentosa grow in mid-to-northern Ontario? It's one of my favorite trees and has pretty good timber value, too.

Robert

Good morning Robert.

I am located in the southern end of mid-western Ontario - the northern end of Huron county. If you locate the Lake Huron community of Goderich on a Google map and then zoom in for the small town detail you'll see Blyth about 15 miles east and just slightly north. My zone is 5b, which PlantFiles reports as the northern limit of the Paulownia tomentosa.

If you look at a Canadian hardiness zone map you'll see that to the east and north of my location the zone drops to 5a, but if you go a little south you get back into and/or stay within zone 5b/6a range. Here's a link to the updated map: http://nlwis-snite1.agr.gc.ca/plant00/#

I hope this helps!

--Ginny

Robert, I think you will find a few rednecks in Canada too, but over all more tolerant. My very blond daughter has a very African boyfriend and they are FINE up here, but in Wisconsin, they get hassled. Yes, thats a photo of my garden, btw. Please come on up and start at one end and go to the other, you might like Ontario, or B.C. or the Maritimes. The east indian culture in B.C. is amazing. Its a very proud part of our heritage. AS for tolerance of mixed marriages, I personally think my gay friends in Ontario have it about the easiest, but also in Vancouver, although it is expensive.

I am replying very late, I often dont check in for weeks at a time. But please consider a tour, its a gorgeous huge amazing country with so much to offer, and we welcome American expatriates, especially in B.C. where they are a well respected fixture in our society.

Robert, you might consider Surrey in B.C. It is about 50 km south of Vancouver near the border with the state of Washington in the U.S. Our zone is 6B on one map and 7 on the other so we are pretty close to your zone for gardening. I am attaching a picture of the flower bed in front of our house so you will have some idea of our spring plants. In winter we have the hellebores and winter jasmine and in mid-February the early snow crocuses begin to bloom then the snowdrops and so on until the last late tulips before the perennials begin. We have 5 rhododendrons along the east side of our house so they will have the morning sun. I understand that people in Washington, D.C. love the beautiful Japanese cherry trees. We have various varieties of these beautiful trees on the different streets in my area of Surrey. We also enjoy people who have never seen it before taking pictures of the petals after a wind storm when these petals lay covering the ground like a blanket of snow.

Surrey has a large East Indian community and there are various temples too. As for discrimination, of course there is some, there is discrimination everywhere and I would honestly say that I think we have less than most places. It seems the incidents we do have are blown out of proportion by the media, especially if there isn't much else in the way of news. If you move in among a group of Christian Fundamentalists you will find that you are discriminated against but probably not as in-your-face as you are used to. We have laws here that protect people from discrimination and hate crimes. There are even groups that will help you sue the pants off whomsoever did the dasterdly deed.

Prices for homes in Surrey are high in some areas and reasonable in others. I have no idea what homes go for in Washington. The Surrey Real Estate Board publishes a monthly newspaper which lists homes in the various areas of Surrey, I can't think of even one company now because we moved here years ago and have no plan of selling our home but you can probably find one on the internet. E-mail them and ask for a copy of their latest paper and you can compare prices, figure out which of the many areas you would like to (and can afford to) live in. Even if you love one area but most homes begin at $1 million, there are always homes that are not as grand in the area that are cheaper.

Wherever you decide to live I wish you both much happiness and happy gardening!

Phil

Dave, would you please amend my Zone from 4 to 6b? I finally found a Canadian map showing our zones so will not change again, promise!
Phil

For Robert, attached is a picture of the cherry trees on our street.

Phil you can change your zone yourself by clicking on "My Info" (underneath the "Guides and Information Tab" at the top of your home page). In the first box (labeled "Your Actions") click on "Manage your Preferences". At this point you will see 2 boxes off to the side (with small print) one is labeled " My Tools" and the one below it is labeled "Preferences". Under preferences you will see "Your Location" click on that and you will be able to change your zone. Be sure to click on the "Update Your Preferences" bar when you are finished.

The directions now are really a mouthful. It used to be MUCH simpler to do the above but now one has to really search to discover where everything is hidden. If you have problems doing the above then you will have to dmail Dave or post in his forum http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/dg/all/ for him to see what you are requesting of him. He doesn't follow every thread here.

Pam

Phil, What a lovely street full of cherry trees!

Sandy