Artichoke or Cardoon? I cannot get these straight

this is what have. My plant has two babies at the base.

The blossom bud on the Artichoke is larger than the Cardoon's, but it is hard to tell the size of your bud.

This message was edited May 29, 2007 11:57 AM

Nery, I recall seeing something like this from you last year. That time I think you included photos of the leaves. I can't find any links that describe the differences between the 2 species side by side. Generally, as Josephine pointed out, artichoke buds are larger. I grew both artichokes and cardoon back in Calfornia. What complicates the matter is that there are several varieties of each. Artichokes have leaves that are more finely divided. It has one or two flower buds that are larger than the others. The width of the bud leaves is almost the same as the height. This can vary some because they produce two crops a year — a spring and a summer crop and there is a difference in the appearance of the artichoke bud.

Cardoon bud leaves are fairly narrow and pointed with all the flowers in the cluster about the same size. Since it is grown mainly for the leaf stalks, the midrib and stalks are thick and wide. It may have spines along the stem or not depending on the variety. If the flowers are allowed to go to seed, cardoons are invasive. I have never read that artichokes are invasive. One other thing I discovered about cardoon: they are aphid magnets. A spray of water was not sufficient. When I wrapped the stalks to blanch them, I provided a great place for the aphids to hide and feed.

Artichokes:
http://www.mcilvanity.com/blogs/pix/artichoke.jpg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.colorquilts.com/images/process/Artichoke/ArtichokeLeaf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.colorquilts.com/archives/Artichoke1.html&h=300&w=400&sz=55&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=Tq0weIS3mJ9h_M:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dartichoke%2Bleaves%2Bphotos%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/vegetabl/images/large/artichokeleaf.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/vegetabl/artich3.htm&h=480&w=640&sz=66&hl=en&start=26&um=1&tbnid=awTretgksU7qFM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dartichoke%2Bleaves%2Bphotos%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/117321/#117322
Cardoons:
http://www.thegardener.btinternet.co.uk/images/cynara.jpg
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/NR/rdonlyres/C09BB335-ED8F-4B3E-9959-AE3BE0A07399/15807/71005Cardoon.jpg
http://www.veggiegardeningtips.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/Cardoon-Plant.jpghttp://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/5109/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/5109/

I think you have an artichoke. You can separate the babies and plant them elsewhere. That's how they are usually propagated.

Veronica you have a good memory. I did plant artichoke or cardoon last year, it died when it was done flowering and didn't return. Then this winter I planted one, same location, but this year it has offsets. I seem to remember reading somewhere that offsets was the way to distinguish one from the other.

To me, both plants have that lovely grayish coloring, and both have highly sculptured leaves. I really don't see much diff. I will try to remember to post a pic of the entire plant. I have trimmed all the leaves because they was suffocating the plants nearby and underneath. The plant has huge leaves, which flop so can look messy and rather sad, if not trimmed.

I don't remember spines in either plant and I don't remember aphid problems, either.

I'll ck out your links to see if that helps. thanks everyone.

V, looked at your links. what a ditz I am! I notice I posted a pic of my plant in 2006 and show it as artichoke. Somebody must have told me that's what I had. But, with the memory I have, I obviously forgot.

I think the one I'm growing this year is also an artichoke. Wonder why it died last year but has offsets this year. Nothing different in way or place it's growing.


Thanks both for your invaluable help.

Artichokes are considered cool-growing vegetables. The growing areas in California don't get very hot during the day and cool down at night. Even with the days do get hot the heat doesn't last too long. It still cools off at night. The soil is usually sandy loam. It could be that here in Texas, artichokes have to be treated as short time perennials or annuals. Here's part of an article on artichokes that covers climate and soil.

very useful thank you.

there are so many things growing in this section of my yard, it was hard to take a big pic. this is the best I could do.

Those leaves seem to come from the blooming stalk and don't often look like the vegetative leaves, but the differing sizes of the buds make it an artichoke. I need to put a few in my vegetable garden. They are sooooo good steamed with ranch dressing or drawn butter. The only reason I haven't planted anything that provide a hiding space is because of the water moccasins that wonder all over the area. I've lost track of the number we've killed in the yard.

Do you have a space 6' in diameter somewhere else to put the artichoke? They are gorgeous, but they can get 6' wide and 4' tall. Leaf loss will weaken the plant. Are you growing it for the flower or the bud?

I was growing it for the foliage. They are so showy in winter when there's nothing else going on. I cut most of the leaves recently because they were suffocating the short plants nearby ane underneath. In the wintertime it's fine for it to be huge but now, with everything else awake, this plant is in a bad spot.

I have the room for it elsewhere. Since the one last year died, I just assumed it was an annual for me. I have to rethink what I want to do with it. As for the artichoke, I will have to research harvest time, etc. We're not really artichoke eaters but I can give them away if nothing else.

I haven't seen snakes this year, but I am very, very leary of plants that droop because they provide excellent shelters for the slithering ones and poisonous or not, I don't really want to see them.

Wow awesome plant Nery. I just love the color of the bloom.
Patti

I have artichokes and cardoons. I planted the artichokes last spring. They died back during the hottest part of the summer and then grew again when it cooled down and remained green all winter. We ate the first few but I really wanted to see the blooms so have let the rest go. In the fall I bought the cardoon at Redenta's in Arlington. The plant is amazing - much larger than the artichoke. We haven't tried eating the stalks because I can't stand the thought of picking one of those huge leaves. I would guess that it's between 6 and 7 feet tall with lots of buds. I was hoping that the artichokes would be like asparagus and come back each year, but no such luck, huh? Will try to post a pic of the cardoon tomorrow.

We don't have the weather for artichokes as long lived perennials. At best a season or two.

The cardoon stalks would have to be blanched before cooking.

Does anyone know of a nursery that sells the plants? I've looked on line and can only come up with Jerusalem Artichokes. They are so stunning!

Here is a pic of my Cardoon plant that I have..got it as a small baby back in April tho..

knowlan
Look for retailers in your area that sell Monrovia plants. If they don't have the artichoke plants, they may be able to order some for you.
http://www.monrovia.com/PlantInf.nsf/08510e01e61cc962882571a9005a9153/c7570ff46017af1c8825684d00711595!OpenDocument&Highlight=0,artichoke
Big Dipper Farms sells cardoon. Cardoon grows well from seed which is easier to obtain.
http://davesgarden.com/ps/c/2704/

This message was edited Jun 11, 2007 10:12 AM

I checked that Monrovia website and there are several nurseries near me in Katy (Houston) area that carry Monrovia plants. When I get the chance I am going to call one of them and see about getting a couple of plants as we dearly love artichokes and they are fun to grow. I have only grown them from seed previously but there are only about 7 seeds per packet and that really gets pricey when only a couple come up and survive. If they are not a long lived perennial that's ok w/me. I just cut the artichokes w/a longer stem which, when properly peeled is as tender as the heart of the artichoke.

Ann

Thanks for that info, bettdee! There are several nurseries close to me that carry Monrovia so....I'm on a hunt.