We just found the chicks squawking loudly. They were on top of one pecking it's rear end. We got it out immediately and it's tail and rear end are bloody. Even worse, it is opened large enough I can see in it's rear end (?) and it's bloody inside. I mean it's like a grape sized opening. What on earth happened and why?
It's still alive and I have no idea what to do.
Chicken emergency. Help.
Weren't you the one who said some of your chickens had bald spots? I wondered when I read this if you had a pecking problem. Chickens will peck each other until they're raw. And once they see blood or red skin, they'll peck that chicken to death. I've heard putting pine tar on the hurt chicken will help.
Here's some info I found online.
Cannibalism is a prevalent problem in chicken and game bird flocks. It usually begins as simple pecking among the birds and escalates until it is out of control. There are many conditions that increase the likelihood that it will become a serious problem. The problem usually begins by innocent pecking during the establishment of a social order or by pulling of the feathers in certain cases. Some of the reasons for cannibalism are:
Crowding birds - Correct by increasing the amount of space available for each bird.
Provide plenty of feed and water - All birds should have access to feed and water at all times.
Keep light intensity low - Bright lighting increases bird activity and cannibalism.
Keep the house temperature comfortable - Hot house temperatures aggrivate birds and make them more irritable.
Provide all dietary nutrients at recommended levels - Deficiencies of nutrients like methionine and salt will increase a craving for feathers and blood.
Regularly treat birds for external parasites - Pests can stimulate birds to peck and injure the skin, resulting in cannibalistic frenzies.
Remove all sick, weak, small, or odd colored chicks - Birds will attack and kill these chicks as a survival instinct, resulting in widespread cannibalism throughout the flock.
If the pecking and cannibalism problem can not be controlled by the recommended management practices, the last resort is debeaking. Many producers commonly remove portions of both the upper and lower beaks of chicks soon after hatching. This prevents future pecking problems. The debeaking procedure is accomplished by using a hot debeaking blade that cauterizes while cutting the beak. In young chicks, the beak is so soft that touching the beak to a hot metal blade usually removes enough beak to prevent cannibalism. Mature birds may need to have their beaks "trimmed" periodically to prevent cannibalism in older flocks.
more info
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00A0Py
Thank you hart! We put the injured bird in a small cage inside the pen where the other birds cannot get to it. I'll have to get something to put on it's rear. Is this bird going to survive if I can see inside it?
They do have more than one square foot per per which should be plenty at 6 weeks. They have both sun and shade in there and are able to go into the coop if they want. They have food and water and grit we just gave them some ears of frozen corn which they are really enjoying. Since the tractor is open, they are getting plenty of air and although it's hot, it is breezy.
Hubby noticed today some of the larger ones are being a bit rough with some of the smaller ones. We'd already talked about separating the light ones from the dark ones when we build the second tractor. Oddly enough, it's one of the chocolate brown ones they attacked. I wonder if he injured his tail first then they went after him?
I'll make the tractor darker and see about trimming their beaks. They still eat gently from our hands and don't peck hard enough to draw blood or anything with US.
Thank you so much!
I'd try everything before trimming their beaks. Certainly not something for amateurs and it's not recommended for the chickens' health.
How many chickens do you have? That house only looks like it has about 4 square feet or so and the yard maybe 8?
This message was edited May 26, 2007 2:46 PM
Debeaking, also known as "beak trimming" is a process by which parts of the beak of a chicken, turkey or duck are trimmed, usually by removing the top half and the bottom 1/3 of the beak.
Debeaking takes place as a welfare measure to reduce excessive feather pecking and cannibalism in a stressed bird population. Where advocated, it is as a last resort where alternatives are considered not to be possible or appropriate. For example, Dr Phillip C. Glatz made a study from 2000 called Review of Beak Trimming Methods for the Australian Rural Industries Research & Development Corporation government branch and highly emphasized the advantages of debeaking as a measure to control the problems that stress would otherwise cause.
Controversy over debeaking tends to focus around the question of whether and to what extent such intrusive methods are necessary, and whether environmental measures alone will realistically prevent the problems caused by stress in birds.
Contents [hide]
1 Reasons for stress
2 Pain of debeaking
3 Best practice
4 Alternatives to debeaking
5 Animal activist version of debeaking
6 References
7 External links
[edit] Reasons for stress
Chickens in particular can peck for many reasons. They can be too hot, too crowded, not have enough fresh air, not have enough space around the water and feeder, or an insufficiently enriched environment or they can be establishing the leadership of the flock.
[edit] Pain of debeaking
The pain is comparable to having a human fingernail removed by the quick of the nail; it is acute, yet brief and after a few minutes the bird behaves normally. It is essentially an amputation and carries many of the same symptoms that happen in human amputations. For example, leading animal welfare expert Dr. Ian Duncan states that: “There is now good morphological, neurophysiological and behavioural evidence that beak trimming leads to both acute and chronic pain.”[1]
No amputation is 100% successful and neuromas can occur if the procedure is not done correctly; the temperature of the blade, the angle of the cut and the age of the bird especially, are all factors in a successful debeaking. Research from 1996 showed that micro-neuromas were present in all beaks of a moderately trimmed population after 10 weeks, but after 70 weeks all neuromas had disappeared. After several weeks the nerve fibers of the beak simply regrow and the neuroma regresses. These neuromas had been assumed to indicate chronic pain in early studies, but the fact that these neuromas resolve over time means that the pain is not chronic (by definition).
[edit] Best practice
Where debeaking of chickens takes place, it is recommended that it is done when they are between 1-10 days old, although this age range may vary with other birds. There is some indication from a study done in 1997 that trimmed birds lay larger eggs with more mass and do so at an increased rate, but consume more food. The study warns that despite these apparent advantages, debeaking should be performed with caution and careful consideration of the consequences. Debeaking birds older than this can result in complications and non-permanent trimming so the birds will have to be re-trimmed.
A robotic debeaking machine was developed in France that could also do vaccination, but it was largely unsuccessful due to the variation in weight and size of the birds.
There are many ways to debeak: chemical, hot, cold, laser, soldering, gas, electric, and freeze drying.
Cauterising time is also a factor to consider and this depends on the age of the bird.
[edit] Alternatives to debeaking
A range of options have been proposed as possible alternatives to debeaking. Some of these generate significant controversy themselves:
Implanting hormones.
Blind chickens. Hereditary blindness from an autosomal recessive gene causes chickens to be full feathered, produce more eggs and eat less. This method is far superior to any other method of controlling feather picking.
The fitting of 'bits' (a plastic ring that attaches in the nostrils and circles through the beak) to deter pecking by making it painful.
The fitting of 'spectacles' to reduce each bird's field of vision much like blinders.
Enrichment devices. Introduced at an early age, simple objects hung in a habitat can reduce aggressive behavior.
Others are less contentious, but carry cost implications which deter some owners:
Dividing the population into smaller groups, and/or removing some of the males.
Changing light intensity, because reducing light also reduces social interaction.
Adding straw, grain and whey blocks to direct pecking desires away from flockmates and onto food instead. Fresh grass clippings, weeds and lettuce may also work.
Anti-pick compounds. Grease, anti-pick, or pine tar applied to wounded areas.
Selective breeding, choosing birds with lower tendency to peck.
In contrast, rearing under red light has little direct evidence to be effective. (Fairfull and Gowe, 1987)
Hart, the pen is 12x8 and the coop is 4x4. We are building another one very soon.
There are 53 chicks and they are almost 6 weeks old.
I will definitely read about trimming the beaks before I think I about it.
They have some green peppers, lettuce, corn on the cob, grit, their regular food and water.
Some of those "debeaking" methods sound awful! I was more considering a method I read where you use a razor and just remove the very tip. I hate the idea though as they normally don't do this and I don't like the idea of taking away the "natural" aspect of having them. I'll certainly research anything before I try it.
Whew! I think I got all your questions.
Thank you for your time.
Are you including the space taken up by the coop in the yard space? It just looks mighty small for 53 chickens. Just thinking that might be why they're pecking. One square foot per chicken might be okay for them but that's in a coop and yours only have 16 square feet in the coop. You don't add together the yard and coop space in figuring space per chicken.
If you're including the coop in the yard space, that's pretty small too.
Might be the reason why they're stressed.
chickens can survive some pretty nasty wounds. You can use neosporin and unpetroleu, jelly as wound protection agents.
If you have one or two who are the head peckers, you may need to separate or eliminate them, as they can pass the habit on to others.
You can use a dog nail trimmer to trim the very end of beaks and nails, a la what you do with dogs. good luck
What they WERE in was smaller and I had no problems. The coop might knock a couple of feet off, still giving them 10x8 which is 80 square feet. If you go by one per square feet, that should still be plenty according to what I read. We are going to build another but it might take a few days to a week. Hubby works seven days a week, we have six kids and I run a nursery from home. There are never enough hours in a day.
I'm afraid to turn them lose outside because of the hawks, cats and dogs.
They do still like to huddle together at night. I could possible pull some of them out and keep them in the garage at night if you think that is the problem. There was no sign anything was wrong when they came out this morning. It seemed to start later in the day.
I'll try to keep an eye and see if anyone is a gang leader. There were 4-5 when I went to look, pecking at the one. It's still in it's cage with food and water, in the pen. It looks really gross and I am truly upset over the whole thing.
I am sorry you chick was injured. This brings up a good question, how many sq feet is "good" for chickens? Is it the same for bantam and reg sized? I read 3 to 5 sq feet. And if they are free range all day and cooped at night does the size still apply?
Badseed, I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm just looking at the pictures. If that small child were lying down instead of standing up, I don't think she could stretch twice or more down the length of that pen or across it either and I'm assuming she's 4 feet or less tall.
They may not have been old enough to start pecking when they were in a smaller pen.
I agree that free range sounds good in the books but I've never known anyone who did that, including myself, who didn't end up losing a lot of their chickens. They're much safer in a nice pen.
If you're going to have another pen and coop ready for them soon, maybe just separating out the injured one and the ones who are pecking will do?
I had a hen that pecked the other girls' bottoms when they would go to the nest to lay an egg. She would hang around the nesting box and wait. It was kind of weird. Then we would get all eggs with bloody shells because everybody's bottom was sore, .......except hers.
I did clip her beak. At the time I was new to chickens and didn't know any better. I just wanted to help a bad situation.
It was not good ! I felt awful after I had done it. The poor thing bled and bled for days. I felt so guilty. She was pitiful. And I only used a fingernail clipper and took off the very tip......... not very much at all. I would never do it again. It would have been better to just have gotten rid of her.
I hope you are able to resolve your pecking situation. Good luck.
Thanks Lora. I'm new to this so no help at all.
RIP Annie. My 9 year old is really sad as are the rest of us. That one was hers.
None of the others have any blood on them but some have bald spots on their tails. I'll see what I can do about more coop space ASAP.
We took them out more corn on the cob and put some straw in the pen for them. Their feeders and water bottles are full.........
Oh, Badseed, I'm so sorry. Poor little chicken.
Did you read some of the links I posted above? Some of them said to give them greens like lettuce to help stop the pecking. Maybe that would help.
I read through some of them but not thoroughly through all of them. I've been running out to check on them, weed eat, mow the grass, transplant plants and deal with the kids in between posts.
They've been getting lettuce nearly every day. They also had green peppers and cucumbers with the lettuce yesterday.
I really wonder if that one got injured and started the others pecking. I'm just sick over it.
I was jsut talking to my nieghbor who has raised just everything and almost young enough to remember it LOL He said to he had some that did that one year and they were missing something but couldn't remember it. He said they "ate" the butts out of some of thier fellow chickens. If he remembers I will post it. Sorry for your loss....If you were closer she could have one of my silkies :)) Good luck with the rest!
That is really sweet about the silkie. :) I think we are stocked on birds though. LOL At this point, I am thinking about selling a few to get to a more manageable number. I really expected to lose more in the beginning, after all I had read. They gave us four free ones on top of the 51 we ordered. We lost one the first day and one the second day and no more until today. I had thought we knew what we were doing. :(
I went back out and took off the blanket we had on the pen and replaced it with two large blue tarps. All of it is covered now except the ends and the coop takes up most of one end. The other end faces North.
I did read up on Anti-pik, pine tar and Blue Kote.
I also read that you can add one tablespoon of salt per gallon to the morning water then use fresh water in the afternoon then repeat that on day three. I may try that. I don't think a bit of salt is going to hurt them.
The coop has been cleaned out and fresh bedding put in. We'll go out at dark and put them away and hope tomorrow is a better day.
Thank you for your help today.
Awww, I hope tomorrow is better too, Badseed. Can your little girl pick out another chicken to be hers?
great idea, why not have her as "momma" to the first chick from them? Get an incubator or have a local friend hatch one out? (don't read her this if you are not going to get hatching eggs)
That particular daughter chose all the chipmunks as her own. She bawled a few times yesterday. She's my strong silent one and for her to cry, it's a big deal. She still has other chickens but she's not as much of an animal nut as the others. It was sad that one she claimed had such a miserable death. It's something all of us have to learn to cope with and never be so cold as to get over it or not think it's a big deal. It was a life that is now gone.
Everything went well today. They got plenty of lettuce and more corn on the cob along with their regular food. None were harmed and nothing went wrong. We did get some pine tar and put it on any bald spots. We also tried the salt in the morning water. We put a shelf in the coop too so some get get up away from the others if they want.
It was a good day. It was a normal day. What else can one wish for?
I let my girls out and about under my supervision, like when we are puttering around in the yard. When I am not home they stay in their yard. I also give them apples and other rolling type fruits and veggies to pick at when they are stuck in their coop in the winter.
These things do happen sometimes :( and I do cry every time a chicken dies, even though I've lost quite a few over my three years of chicken farming/loving!
Chickens have this need to keep the flock strong. It isn't anything personal to each other, but they want to weed out anyone who might be sick or injured for the better health of the collective. It is so anti what we think is right, but you can't blame yourself. We just do our best and learn. :)
Thank you very much for your post and your kind words. I was pretty disgusted yesterday but not ready to give up yet. :) I can deal with the tough stuff from time to time but life's been a little unkind lately. I'm very thankful that today was a good day.
Badseed ,Im so upset for you! Ive been through it all too!
There were those lost to Hawks so I put up bird netting
there were those lost to night creeping critters so I locked them up in wire cages at night!
There were those that I lost to feral and not so feral neighbors Dogs so I put them in heavy duty kennel fenced yards, no more Free Ranging!
there were those that succumbed to temperatures that chaged too quickly and unexpectedly, so I added extra lamps where needed.
there have even been losses from them trying to bundle up and suffocating the smaller ones on the bottom. Even though they were in 10X10 pen at night!
So dont feel too bad! Just Chalk it all up to a good learning experience and tell your precious little ones that this is the way of animal husbandry, We hate losing any but a fact of life! We just have to learn and try to figure a better solution!
Im hoping that your problems will all be small ones now and there will be no more losses for you and the kids!
Badseed,
Don't feel bad my chickens had been attacked by Black labs in side there own house and pin area.. 11 of them where killed by them KB and NB and I where out at walmart and came home and saw the dog jumping back over the pin and NB started crying I went runinng and saw it..
Tracey
Hi, Chele, I'm here! If you post a classified ad you would probably sell as many of them as you wanted. I can buy extras this weekend if you need some gone fast. I have plenty of room and can always sell eggs later. I've done it before :~)
Lana