New 'Lasagne Bed' Update from Fall

Hi, Everybody--

I haven't had a chance to post much on the new Cottage Garden forum, but I've enjoyed all the pics and thread discussion. (It looks like the flower garden discussion has moved from Perennials over here!)

anyway....I wanted to post a pic of my new (as of last fall) Lasagne (Layered) Bed that we created and planted out of newspapers, hay, leaves, and compost in September/October of last year. Here's the old thread: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/649906/

The original idea was to expand our 'Butterfly Garden' border about 25 feet for more Asclepias and butterfly attractors, but our garden has turned into more of a 'Cottage Garden' as I experiment with seed sowing, dividing and shopping the plant sales...LOL

To my surprise, most of the divisions we planted last fall have come back just fine--hemerocallis, caryopteris, leucantheum, salvias, asclepias, rudbeckia, parsley, liatris, lantanas (over-wintered in the garage), echinops, and we have had verbena bonarienses self-seed (some gardeners would be in angst over this but I love VB.)

And also to my surprise, we haven't had many weeds come up. Some of the Lasagne Bed directions say to just plant annuals the first year because of weeds but we had no trouble.

So, I just wanted to share my bit of L-B experience in case others are running out of room in the garden. I will do it again, no doubt about that.

This photo was taken a week ago...

Looks great! I did my first lasagne bed last summer too. Did it in a strip of land next to the driveway. Really it's in my neighbors yard, but I'm the only one who gets to see it. I used lots of newspapers, compost, some old potting soil from pots and topped it off with wood chips. I was surprised this Spring to dig down and find that all the newspapers had composted and the soil was very nice and fertile looking. Much easier than removing the sod like I did on most of my beds.

Susan

tabasco,

I WISH I could get VB to self-seed. It just doesn't here and, like you, I love it and would love to have more of it.

I started a lasagne bed in the fall with cardboard over the weedy grass and then my used that area for my leaves that were raked up to compost in. When I planted it a few weeks ago, I piled the contents of one whole compost bin on top and then put in the shrubs, perennials, and a rose. It's definitely the easiest way to plant when you you have rocky, crummy soil.

The Veronicas are already blooming and the Hansa rose has had one bloom. But I'm also getting a lot of melon seedlings. Good thing they're easy to recognize, since I put some of my winter-sowed seedlings in there, too, just to fill in. :)

Okay, that's it - lasagne, here I come!!!!

Thanks for posting that, Susan, I needed the inspiration. We have a huge-moungous yard and I am already quite sick of mowing the darn thing. I want to do a little section between the garage and sidewalk that leads to the house, about 10' by 30'. I have the cardboard (much to my husband and sister's disgust!) I have horse manure just composting away.... lemme see, what else....

newspapers, chopped leaves, coffee grounds.

Some people add a balanced fertilizer in the middle somewhere to be sure the new garden has all the trace nutrients (I did). Or your other favorite organic additives for whatever kinds of plants you'll be growing--whatever...

Fabulous, Tabasco!!! I've done it a few times, too, and absolutely swear by it!!!

Looks awesome!

I just planted a lasagne bed we put in a few months ago, and was AMAZED at how well it worked! I used layers of newspaper, leaves, some manure, composted kitchen scraps, and old soil from some pots, then topped it off with a sheet of black plastic to cook a little faster. But first I watered each layer well and poured a bit of molasses over the whole thing. (I read somewhere that it helped attract worms...it must have worked, because every planting hole I dug was teeming with the wriggly critters!) Everything decomposed nicely in just two months.

Junebug,

I'd love to have your rain level. I did the very same thing with the newspapers, cardboard, leaves, water, & manure/ When I took that plastic off, I had an ant farm of humongous proportions. Nothing but sand and mummified cardboard. We no longer get the 2pm rains I remember from my early days in FL.

Maggie

Wow Maggie--sorry to hear that! On the flip side, you do avoid the snow and shorter growing season. :-)

Junebug, I hadn't heard the molasses theory before - I'll be sure to try that one next time!

Your bed looks wonderful! Can't wait to see it in bloom!

I've been successfully using cardboard and newspaper mulch / lasagna gardening for years----before I start a new bed, I always wet down well, then seed with fishing worms. Then have a tub of water handy for wetting 6-8 page sections of newspaper before I put them down (makes them easier to handle, and they don't blow around). I put compost, manure, etc., then another thin layer of newspaper which I top with a nice-looking bagged compost of some kind, and usuallly mix some corn gluten in with the top layer of mulch to discourage weed seeds. Unless of course I'm planting seeds. This method has made a huge difference in my nasty clay soil. I've found it's critical to get moisture into the soil and into the paper or cardboard before you cover them up, or the water tends to roll off instead of soaking in.

I stay away from black plastic, because it gets so hot here in the summer it just cooks and breaks apart into little pieces and makes a huge mess. Once I tried old carpet, but the bermuda grass I was trying to kill just grew right into it, and then I had a heck of a time getting ANYthing moved....learning curve LOL!

Ima, thanks for the great advice - lol - I can only imagine what you went through to remove the carpet from the grass or vice versa!

HI Tabasco
here's a lasagna bed I built 2 years ago - so this is its 2nd full year. I had horrid clay soil. About 3 years ago I cleared the bed, put down about an inch of horse manure, then started layering. Over that winter I dumped every bit of compostable food scraps into it every day - anything that would break down. I had bags and bags of shredded paper from the office, peat moss, etc. In about Feb that winter I finished it off with a few inches of mulch that I'd saved and let it stand till spring when I planted it. It has gone wild and I've taken a lot out of here. The biggest pleasure is being able to move soil around with out a shovel and pick - its so loose and full of organics. I think the lasagan layers wer about 20" tall to start with and they sank to the level of the sidewallk in a year. That alone is an interesting thing to think about.

Here's another small shot. The bed is about 20' long and 5' deep. I have planted about 50 lilies - Casa Blanca, Martagons, Black Beauty and both Lilium speciosum rubrum and alba, 20 Alliums - christophii and globemaster, Dwarf yellow hosta and H. Dust Devil, various astilbe, boxwood, carex evergold, 2 tree peonies, clematis, perennial geraniums, mum Mary Stoker, valerian, hellebores, daylilies, lily of the valley, tricyrtis, tiarella, tons of dwarf daffodils, dwarf conifers, tulips, sedums - Neon, Frosty Morn, Dragons Blood, Salvia Blue Hill, Dianthus barbatus, Delphinium Pacific Giant, Lobelia cardinalis, Filipendula ulmaria 'Aurea', Iris ensata variegata - the green and white, Becky Shasta Daisy and Japanese anenome Andrea Atkinson. Orignally my whole thought was to make a bed near the house that I didn't have to spray my lilies all the time to keep the deer out.

I am so sold on lasagna gardening that I started 2 more big projects last year. They don't look like much right now but they will. One is a 120' bed/problem area that was filled with just garbage trees and weeds from the former owner. I had it cleared and got a landscaping co to dump 2 x 10 ton dump trucks full of leaves on it last fall - for free - I now have the nicest leaf mold on top and will add to the height of the bed before finally landscaping it. Getting enough material to do something of this size is a challenge but the fall clean up crews were glad not to have to drive to their dumping area.

Wow, alyrics! You've drunk the lasgna bed kool-aid with amazing results! Those are some big and challenging projects. I can't even imagine moving around 2 truckloads of leaves and such! But you sure get the results!

It sounds like the method works pretty well for just about everyone (but not margaran!) If chopped leaves, some organic tid bits and newspapers are available, it's hard to imagine an easier way to make a garden. Of course, it sounds like everyone adjusts the recipe to suit, and that's neat, too.

I went to our Ohio River Valley RU today and told some there about Lasagna Beds. It was new to some, and then others talked of the 'straw bale method' where you just take bales of straw and stick your tomato plants into them...they said all the info was on the 'vegetable' forum and I may have to check that out!

I came back from the RU with dozens of plants and had them 'planted' in the garden in no time. Hardly needed the trowel....

Whew! Talk about your ounce of prevention. We dumped lots of shredded leaves under the maple, where the grass was pretty sparse and raggedy last fall. That's it, and this year, I plan to do it again. Esp. since we have have now cleaned up the edges of this new "bed" in the making, and added a few stepping stones donated by my neighbor. It looks so much nicer, maybe I'll add a few hostas and some groundcover someday, when the soil is nice and crumbly.

We are also beginning to expand two adjoining beds the old-fashioned "digging out the sod" way. I wish I had thought of this last year, now that my plants have outgrown their little starter garden beds. Please someone tell me what I can pile up in order to plant in them immediately. Duh, would it be what you would normally just put in there, on top of the soaked newspapers on top of the sod? If that'll work, I need to know soon, or my DH will be out there rototilling tomorrow. Well, that's his idea, I say to hand dig since it's so close to the roots of the tree. Piling up the compost/manure on top of old newspapers/cardboard and then planting and mulching sounds a heckuva lot easier, and loads more fun! thanks for any advice. :0)

Oh, gee. I don't know about planting under maples....some say building up the soil layer under the tree harms them. Others say if you put rich soil under them the roots just grow into it...

Having said that (disclaimer), I layered lots of compost, leaves, and pine bark under our dogwood, maple and ash trees (full shade) two years ago and planted hostas, ferns and other shady stuff right away. Can't say that the plants took off--they struggle with the trees for moisture--and the trees grew like crazy with the rich soil and watering...so can't say that it was wholly successful.... But, I would definitely do the lasagna method rather than rototilling or digging with the shovel...but I suppose any of those approaches would work to some extent....

Most of the roots are under a deck that the previous owners built around the tree. I'll try to get a picture for you, it's unique. The leaves are relatively light. I may just try finishing the expansion of the other beds with the method I've outlined above.

Hi guys! Say, for those of us who get our news on-line, what's a good way to amass lots and lots of newspapers? I'll be putting in some beds within the next few weeks and would LOVE to use some variation of the lasagna method.

tabasco - you have to check out Kent on the Veg forum and learn about strawbale gardening. It is amazing. I did it last year and got about 3.5 bushels of tomatoes - no weeding, no spraying, no bugs, no bending. Just water and fertilize and pick your produce. It was really fun and I'd recommend it to anyone. I have been trying to go more and more organic and tomatoes have a lot of insecticide sprayed on them - but not using this method. I only got a few hornworms and that was it - just picked them off by hand. I don't have access to the space I had last year but this coming week I'm putting in just 3 plants of San Marzano tomatoes in straw at my house. We loved this paste tomato the best for all around taste, production and making salsa. But Kent is growing everything from okra to beans to squash on bales.

Prairiegirl- do the raised bed if you can talk DH into doing it the easy way. You can't really get in there by rototilling or digging - the maple roots are going to be in the way and if you chop them they aren't going to respond well either. If you give your perennials some organics to get started under the maple they can usually get going. The maple roots will come up through your planting eventually but by that time your hostas will also be established. In addition to hosta, some plants that can do ok under maple are also hardy cyclamen, liriope, sweet woodruff, dwarf daffodils, scilla, blue eyed grass, and if it gets established the old original pulmonaria with not too many spots can take real drought - nice flowers in spring. Also epimedium will do fine in there. If you top dress with some compost that is usually enough for hosta to keep going although they are prob not going to grow as fast as they would in a less competitive area. -

estreya - we raided the county recycling center for newspapers in a reverse recycling maneuver. also libraries, coffee shops or office buildings would have newspapers. Today I helped build a communtiy garden and we spray painted the ground to define our beds, laid out 1/4" of newspapers, wet them thoroughly, added 3-4" of composted manure, then another 6" of topsoil, and finally laid flakes of straw all around the raised beds and across the top. When they plant they will separate the straw on top and plant right into the soil. The straw on top is a mulch and helps hold the soil in the bed. I was jealous! I wish I had all my beds done so beautifully the first time around. They got awesome soil.

Thank you, alyrics! I'll make some calls on monday and see what i can scrounge up.

Gorgeous garden photographs here, by the way. Very inspirational!

alyrics, beautiful results. I especially like the geranium weaving its way through the gold hosta. I keep seeing uses of straw bales in many different ways. How do you find straw that doesn't deposit loads of weed and other seeds into your garden? That's my biggest worry. Most of the noxious weeds I have up here came in with sheep and horse manures that weren't totally composted; so I have an aversion to bringing in anything else (probably an unreasonable aversion.)

mickgene--good question! I had one load of 'mushroom' compost (more like manure) delivered and it was full of weed seeds--(I don't think it was really mushroom compost, just called that!) I had a devil of a time with that two years ago.

So switched suppliers for the next deliveries, and now I have the most beautiful shitake mushrooms popping up in my garden, but no weeds! LOL

Having learned my lesson on the first delivery, I bought bales of straw for my lasagna bed from a landscape supplier. They 'guaranteed' that it wouldn't have weed seeds--and so far it has been pretty good. A little more expensive, but very nice product.

tabasco,
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try it. Shiitakes! How lucky are you????

thanks alyrics! We're going to widen the lines even further now. So it's a good thing we didn't finish, LOL. I have lots of plants already, since I am expanding the existing beds. I have hostas, cimicifuga, ferns, astilbes, heuchera and tiarellas. As well as sweet woodruff, brunnera, gold coins, foxglove, Rosebud azalea, and persicaria. I don't plan to plant anything under the tree itself this year. Thanks for the tip on the pulmonaria, I tried that before and lost it. And I will be planting some bulbs this fall, daffs and scilla sound like a nice combo. :0)

mickgene - if you're getting good, clean straw you shouldn't have too much of a problem. If you get hay (take it from my experience) you're going to get a LOT of seed.

Tobasco, I have been so busy, and I've been reading but not commenting because of time constraints, but your lasagne border is awesome! I cannot believe how little it has sunk since last year. Mine sunk down about 7 inches and it wasn't piled nearly as high as yours.

estraya, One of the best things about using newspaper is having it handy and free, but since you don't, go to the grocery or Wal-Mart or someplace like that and get corrugated cardboard boxes. The worms prefer it to cardboard, IMHO, and it breaks down uniformly and doesn't blow away in the middle of the project while you are getting the hose pulled around (ask me how I know LOL)

ALyrics, I think you have one of the best eyes for artistic planting at DG. You photos are always to die for, and I'd be interested in hearing how you decide what to plant where. PLEASE tell me you spend hours and hours with paper and pencil and pre-think every planting. If you tell me you wander around the garden looking for a hole, I will be quite depressed!

For those of you who don't know, Straw is bedding and Hay is fodder (food). Hay should be way more expensive than straw. You can sort of let the straw bales sit wet/damp over a couple of summer months and then use them, but I have never had any problem with straw.

My biggest problem withthe Lasagne beds is how horrible I feel when I dig a planting hole. The worms look so happy, and amorous!, and I feel so rotten when I dig in and kill them. I wonder if I tap on the soil where I want to dig withthe shovel, wait 5 minutes, and come back to dig if I could train them to sneak away before the shovel comes. :)

Suzy



.

Suzy ~ You could literally cut them in half, and that won't kill them! They probably can't wait to see what you're going to plant. :0)

Suzy, thanks for the info on hay/straw - I've wondered, but was embarrassed to ask at the feedstore!

And, PrairieGirl, really? I've always felt horrible when I sliced through a worm and just assumed that it died (both halves!). Maybe we could call it "propagation of worms?" LOL!

Worms are a little like starfish -- if there's enough tissue there, it will regenerate. The only reason science can come up with for this is -- they don't know they can't, so they do.

I love invertebrates.

Does Tractor Supply carry straw, I wonder? Is it available this time of year?

I am trying my first lasagna bed and I'm a little nervous. I have laid down several layers of wet newspapers. Added an inch of bagged steer manure & some peat moss. Then 2 bales of straw. I think I got carried away with the straw!! I am on a limited budget and my husband can not help me due to health concerns. I plan on adding a little steer manure over the top of the straw... What else? Should I sprinkle the whole thing with 16-16-16? Would it be helpful for me to get some coffee grounds if I can round them up from the local shops? If this doesn't work out as planned (getting rich nice soil from this combo) I can always pay to have top soil delivered to layer over the existing stuff.

What do you think?

Whatever you do, let it sit, at least until spring, before planting. My shrubs and grasses' rootballs are exposed now due to the settling in my lasagne bed.

Psychw2, How about grass clippings combined with tree leaves? You should be getting lots and lots of tree leaves right about now.

PGZ5 - Hi!!! Great advice -- My Lasagne bed sunk 7 inches.

Suzy

No leaves YET, but they will be coming available soon. I thought the STRAW could take the place of leaves, was I wrong? I also thought since my yard is so small I would ask some neighbors for their grass clippings. Is there anything I need to be aware of if I'm getting somebody else's grass clippings? Avoid recently fertilized yards or anything???

The year I did my lasagna bed, I also put out things like banana peels, etc. (when I was going to be putting a layer of something else on top of it). The bed was completely broken down by spring and I was amazed at the quality of the soil!

Grass clippings are good, and coffee grounds make a good alternate. Both those are considered greens because of the heat and nitrogen they have inthem. Paper, leaves and straw are browns, and they'll decompose on their own, but go faster in cooler weather if they are layered with the greens. Just remember that as mounded as it appears to be now, it will drop in height considerably by next June.

Murmur, I didn't know bannaa peel would break down that fast! I cut mine into little pieces with a scissers to make them smaller so they'll decompose faster. maybe I don't have to do that.

Suzy

Suzy, I did find some larger banana peel pieces in the soil that hadn't broken down, but I just left them assuming they would eventually break down (which they did).

Pat, the only problem with the straw is that it takes a bit to break down - it's pretty tough stuff. But if you get some good stuff on top of it, don't worry, it'll happen. I'd put anything and everything that is organically based on top of it - coffee grounds break down into excellent soil, don't take the filters out, they do too! Leaves, all of your kitchen scraps - if you're worried about animals getting into it, you can get some more newspaper and put it on top of it and stick a brick on top of it, too.

I'm dumping all of the soil out of my pots from this year's annuals and putting it in my new bed. Pruning scraps (not big twigs, though) and vegetable plants that arent producing any more. My dogs run when they see me coming, they know they're next.... >smile< ...

Thanks, guess I'll have to hit up my neighbors for grass clippings because I put ALOT of straw on top. I misjudged how much I would want/need.

If it's too much to deal with, take some off and add it as a brown later on, or keep it to use as a mulch for winter or to protect spring seeds. There's always a place for it!