Pipevine Swallowtail Pillars

Y'all already know how concerned I was about the Pipevine ST eggs on the A. elegans. Well, I set out today to find a meaty pipevine, and they had only one at Tinkers. I had them tag it for me and went to pick it up this afternoon. It had eggs on it!! Besides that Tim had some wild pipevines growing on the perimeter on the nursery that were crawling with Pipevine ST pillars!!! Sure I adopted 4 of the ones in the last instars while I was at it.
The plant I bought is Aristolochia fimbrata. These are gregarious caterpillars laid in clusters. They stay in a group until their last instar where they crawl to find a place to pupate. That being said, they can really chow down!! ...And they frass a lot too. They use their antennae to crawl around and feel where they are going, (maybe their vision isn't so good).

So now I can save the A. elegans for Polydamas in case I get a visit from one looking to oviposit. The fimbrata is pretty big. If all the limbs were stretched out it would be about 8-9ft. There is plenty to take cuttings if needed for any babys I find now.

I thought I had floral foam, but I was wrong... I did have some pearlite to put in glad cups with water and a tiny hole for the cutting to slip through. That seems to be working good.. and if they root I will have more plants to pot up in case I need them.

I was going home right as my Ben was about to get out of school, so I brought them in and had a little Q & A with his class, and showed them the fat crawly PV cats too. His teacher worked along with me very well. These kids are going to know a bit more of the diversity between butterflies, and maybe their curiosities will lead them to study more about them,

I will attempt to chart (on this thread), all the progress with these cats and the eggs that have already hatched from the A. elegans oviposited on last week too.

:o)

Hi again,

We don't get the Polydamas Swallowtail (Battus polydamas) up here, and I have seedlings of A. elegans that I started because I thought that was what I needed. (Deb, I think I got the seed from you.) They are baby seedlings about 4" high that would host 2 cats tops right now, but they will grow as soon as I get them planted outside.

The question is: How do I find out if A. elegans is okay for the Pipevine Swallowtail (Battus philenor)? Most books say "species of Aristolochia" for Pipevine Swallowtails or something non specific like that. On DG plant files, it says A. elegans is host to "many butterfly catepillars", but again nothing specific.

Suzy

Dang! I just answered my own question:

http://www.butterflygardeningandconservation.com/butterfly/st/pipevine.php

The website says they will lay eggs on the elegans, but will die. Good idea on moving your cats!

The seeds didn't come from you, Deb, they came from somebody else. The seed you sent didn't germinate, or didn't germinate yet. Not sure which because they take a formidably long time to germinate. It was for wooly pipevine.

Suzy

You're good Suzy, lol, answering your own questions! I actually got some of them to germinate, but they are small now. The plant I bought at tinkers saved the day. I slept a lot better last night. I think the best way to germinate the A tomentosa (Wooly PV), is in the baggie with tissue. When the tails come out, point them down and cover the tops side of the triangle just under the surface.

I had read the same thing about them not making it all the way on A elegans, so that was another reason beside the PDST reserve. I read it on some archive threads here in DG. Hopefully I will get enough vine going out there to leave the cats on the vine until the last instars if I take them in at all. The cluster cats produce so much more frass!! And these are a more poisonous butterfly so the birds might be deterred from eating cats and chrysalids altogether here. I am really glad to have PVST here for their mimikry.

So far I haven't had a major problem with the birds, except with eating a couple of the Gulf Fritillary chrysalides, so I cut those off to hang safely when I find them. BSTs come in the cage at or after the 3rd instars if I can find them. The more any cats can be outside, the better.

Keep me posted on your pipevine growing.. and if they are small this year, at least you can count on them to overtake you next year .
:-)

It seems like I should get rid of the A. elegans totally and start over with wooly pipevine, or another known kind that is definitely a host. Why take a chance they'll lay eggs on something that will eventually kill them? Or am I missing somehting?

Suzy

If you have some seedlings of plants of A elegans, I will pay postage to take them off your hands in a heartbeat, Suzy! Just let me know.

:-D

Are you serious? Let me ask them if they want to go to Texas.

Suzy

They said, "Yee-haw", which I preseume means yes. I'll schedule the flight for Friday so you get them on Monday. You understand there are about a dozen and they are small, right? Started from seed this Feb..

Suzy

LOL, Yaaayhaw! I can send you a check when you know the total. LMK, ok?
:-)

Just as I suspected one of the 4 cats are closing in today. It laid in the same place all day, and just emptied itself, (blerk). First time I saw this years ago, I thought the cat was dieing...and in a way it was. Dieing to its old life as a pillar, to be born again as a completely different creature. Pretty marvelous!

:o)!

Deb - I just planted a bunch of Aristolochia fimbrata seeds today against my back fence. I wasn't sure if it was the right vine, but figured what the heck. The seeds looked interesting. lol

I wanted to tell you that the Texas Yellow Star (Bog plant seeds) that you sent me a while back are flowering now. Even though it's a bogless bed, they are growing just fine!!! Here's a photo of a few of the sprouted and flowering plants. Thanks again for sending them to me!!! :-)

What a great plant they made too! Mine are kinda leggy so far. Yours look great!

The plant I bought to feed PVST is a fimbrata. It is a definate larval host. These cats are so pretty! Only one has curled up so far. I think the other 3 took a second take of being caterpillars and decided to postpone the pupation not to miss anything. lol.

I sprung for a 'fresh air-habitat", I like it a lot.. If anyone asks you gals what ya want for mother's day, lol. The time left is short for the big PVST cats, but they are good healthy testers for the new habitat at over 2". The cluster PVST eggs found on elegans hatched and those are a tiny mass of gregarians now. Follow the black dot across the leaf until they too will want one leaf each a day... (fimbrata has large leaves), Then ya know they want to fly.

This plant also has a real pungent musty nose. Something tells me to wash my hands a lot when handling all these Aristolochias, they are poisonous. The same as with Rue. I would be an allergic mess if I didn't.

:-Z

Deb, I have your package of A. elegans seedlings ready to tape shut to mail tomorrow to the address as listed in the Address Exchange. Fingers crossed it gets there in good shape and in short order -- on Monday. As it turns out, they aren't even hardy here, so I'm glad to be sending them on. I told them you'd buy them matching hats and boots and they'd get to ride horses at your ranch (and not that they would be eated by caterpillars) You'll have to break the news to them. LOL!

Is that Texas Yellow Star the same as Epoma or Esponia? Something like that? Or is it Lindheimera texana? I got some seeds of Texas Yellow Star in a trade and the Latin name began with an E and had 3 syllables. Rhymed with Estonia. LOL> It was really pretty in the picture the trader had -- like a yellow Impatiens (sort of)

You guys sure have a lot of yellow daisy-flowers down there!

Suzy

ROFL Thanks Suzy!! Will let ya know how it works out....

The Yellow Star is as you said Lindheimera texana. It's my first year to grow it. Lindheimera texana
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/55468/index.html

The Diasies are here:
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/64298/index.html

I have a lot more yellow this year, the 'Estonia' might ring a bell with someone else. I can't place it..

:-D

Well crawling right along, one more of the 4 PVST cats is curling up and attaching with silk. I really like this cage... Soon as they are done I will hang them and put BST cats in it.

They are so soft looking,,They have a cool shaggy way of moving around too. Antenae always feeling around.. like they are visually challenged.
LOL blind as a Battus philenor.. humm.

time for bed, making bad jokes, hahaha! yawn! :-O

Hey Deb...where'd you get that cage? That's a nice one!
The cats look great and quite healthy!

It was petco and it cost 47.99, but when I saw it i knew I had to get it. Wow I just looked it up, and it's on sale for 40.99.


:-)
Here's the url, I almost forgot to post..lol
http://www.petco.com/Shop/SearchResults.aspx?Nav=1&N=0&Ntt=fresh+air+habitat

This message was edited May 12, 2007 9:01 AM

That's fantastic! They are out of stock :( But, I'm on the list to be notified when they get some in.

Thanks!

Good! I hope they get them in soon!
They still have the demo at this store a block from me, I called and he agreed to sell it to me at a discount...It has a few cobwebs, ..... he and I laughed when I told him how "ratty" it was...LOL! (that's what ya say when you're bargaining. it just needs to be wiped down/washed, actually in perfect condition other than that, shhh) rofl!~

What an interesting thread this is, please keep us posted.

This afternoon the second cat is almost completely inclosed, just shedding the last skin.. The chrysalis will fully turn and dry tomorrow.

The third one is preparing itself..Here silked in place and starting to shed.

The fourth one is still munchin away between naps..

Great close-up photos, Deb! They are really different looking than most of the Swallowtail chrysalises. Same way they hang though. Interesting! Another great thread for all of us to use for reference! Thanks, Deb!

YW Becky! Eventually I will make a storyboard page for each species I get this year. Probably on the lolove site. DGers get a first peek at everything here..:-) pretty much!

I've had milkweed for years, but this is the first year for pipevines. I've also added rue, dill, parsley, and fennel. I'm fascinated with your info and the photos. What's the site you are referring to above? I'm new to anything other than monarch hosting! Great info and pics, deb.

TY bookworm,
The site is http://www.theletteroflove.com I am getting behind in putting pics in there bc I come here first so much of the time. So if you go there, check back in a week. I try to add as I go.

Well 3 out of 4 of these pillars are in their crysalids now. I hung them in the screen box with the 4 BSTs. (The BSTs have been morphing since 5-7 and 5-8.)
These 3 PVSTs began pupating on 5-12, the third one finished today. They are a tad bit slower than other cats I've raised.

The 3 on the left are PVST's>

Here is #4 having the whole A. fimbriata to itself. Kinda woke him up a bit to be back outside. I'ts in the GH, and hopefully it will not crawl off or go too far to find.

Close up of #1 & 2 PVST chrysalids

This message was edited May 14, 2007 9:34 PM

Beautiful sites and great information - so glad to have them! I'll study what you've put up in the days to come. Hopefully "if I plant them, they will come?"

#3 just finishing silked to the side of the cage.. from pic in Post #3494930 above.

You got it bookworm!! There are lots of helpful ppl here at DG. They will make your gardening so much richer in every way! (I couldn't have come this far without all of them...)

Nice to see you getting more species too!

I've been mostly in the Texas, tomato, and vegetable gardening threads for a couple of years, but the birding and wildlife forums are my new haunts. I've had hummingbird and monarch plants for years and I've seen the numbers increase every year. I'm now hoping to attract other varieties to hang out like the monarchs do! I'll be here as often as I can. Thanks for all you share!

bookworm - Deb's site is beautiful!!!

Another site to check (if you haven't already) is:
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/map?x=160&y=191&_fc=1

In the right-hand corner of this page, you can choose your county and it will give you a specific listing of butterflies and moths in your area along with helpful info about each species (click on each butterfly or moth by name). It's not always a complete list (they are adding more all the time), but it will help give you a good start as to what to look for and what to plant to attract them to your yard! :-)

It is beautiful - what wonderful pics, debnes. As I have more time, I'll definitely browse some more!
I am a bit worried that the "ground cover" version of pipevine is the elegans that you referred to above. It's low growing and vining on the ground. I don't want to kill them for sure! My garden is already wasp infested! I do have the tall vining version as well and it seems to be taking hold quite well.
Do I have the wrong kind?

Your tall vining kind, which is it? Does it have large heart shaped leaves? If so it is probably the right kind. I just moved 4 itty bitty cats off the elegans and onto a fimbriata. They were oviposited in a cluster, and had already spread out on 2 leaves. They are about 1/4 inch long now. I will chart them all the way through now.

As I mentioned, I set the #4 PVST cat out free on the vine. Looks like it may pupate there as well. Here it is at about 5pm this evening in this pic.

Actual size>

1 of the new babies just taken off elegans and put on fimbriata today.

These have been hatched for several days, just too small to find, lol. I sized this pic, so you could see the actual size. The babies (1st instar) are identical to the last instar just miniature. I will try to get some better pics tomorrow after they've settled good from the move.

Yes - the tall vining one has heart shaped leaves. The one that's a low growing ground cover kind is what is concerning me. I'll search for the different varieties by picture. I see no cats on the vining one, but I know I need to be patient!