Is this a senna/cassia seedling?

I posted this in the plant ID forum, but thought I would also post the photo here as well.

I have several of these popping up in my seed garden beds. I do NOT remember planting any cassia seeds. So .... my question ..... is this a keeper for my garden beds or a weed I should pull? It is very fast growing, has small yellow flowers popping up at the point where the leaves branch out from the stalk. The flowers almost look like a sweet pea flower. As you can barely see in this photo. (I don't have a macro lense for my camera, so this is the best I could get.)

Help! Does anyone recognize what this plant is?

Becky, I think what you have is Rattle Bush Sesbania herbaceae it is an annual and it gets very tall, a very interesting native plant. It is also a butterfly larval host.
Josephine.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/68448/index.html

Glad you opened this thread Becky.. Also glad you're here Josephine, I need your help. I have a couple Cassia-ish seedlings I want to be certain of what they are. Looks like I still need Cassia Alata. Might have to buy one.


Here's one>

Here's the other one> Looks a little like Desert Bird of Paradise, but the leaves are tighter together on the little branches.. The one who sent the seeds for it simply labled them Cassia... I want to lable them both correctly..The ink is permanent, lol.

Thanks y'all!

Deb

Deb, I think what you have is Senna corymbosa, a naturalized plant, also a good larval host. I had one of those and the frost got it, they are very pretty and can get quite large.
Glad to be able to help.
Josephine.

http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/60780/index.html

I can not be sure about the second one, maybe when it gets a little bigger.
It could be Partrige pea, but I think you already have that one.
Josephine.

Thanks Josephine! That helps a lot.. Now I will know better how to place them. Going to need more room, oh dear!
I hope the little one is a Partridge Pea, I really wanted it.

Thanks Becky for letting me park here, there are so many Cassia/Sennas. I was a little overwhelmed with them this year, and very glad to be.

Deb

Josephine - Thanks! It sure does look like a Rattle Bush Sesbania herbaceae. I may have to dig them out of my garden beds as they will tower over all the other seedlings. I may put them in pots which I can move around to use them to shade shorter plants! ;-) But they certainly look funny towering over all the little baby seedlings in the middle or front of the garden beds which I recently added to my backyard.

Do you know what butterfly they are a host plant for?

Oh Deb! Glad this thread is helpful for you as well.

When unexpected plants show up in my seed garden beds, I don't know whether to keep them or pull them. Especially as a newbie to gardening, everything looks foreign to me! LOL I only recognize the usual weeds here! LOL

Becky, the books that I got my information from show the Sennas or Cassias are larval host to these many butterflies, so they are very worthwhile plants.

Giant Cloudless Sulfur
Clouded Sulfur
Orange Sulfur
Southern Dogface
Cloudless Sulfur
Sleepy Orange
Little Yellow
Dainty Sulfur
Marine Blue
Eastern Tailed Blue
Spring Azure
Reakirts Blue
Silver Spotted Skipper
Long Tailed Skipper
Hoary Edge
Southern Cloudy Wing
Funereal Dusky Wing
Ceraunus Blue
Great Purple Hairstreak

Josephine - Is the Rattle Bush Sesbania herbaceae from the Senna/Cassia family of plants? Or is it another entirely different plant variety? I couldn't find any info on it being used by butterflies.

Holy Cow!!!! Thanks for posting that list of butterflies that use the Cassia/Senna plants. I didn't know there were THAT MANY butterflies that would use that plant! Definitely a MUST HAVE in any butterfly garden!!!

Those Rattlebushes sure do get big! When I first started gardening I saw one and was so sure it was something I would really need, but learned it wasn't. lol I've never heard of it being a host plant either. It sure would feed a lot of cats!!

I've got my 2 little Christmas Cassias going but they sure are slow growing. I'm needing them to be bushes this year!!

My C. alata barely survived being dug up and potted this winter. I found that it does not like a lot of water. Know how I learned that? When it almost died and then I realized I hadn't poked out the drainage holes in the bottom of the pot!! duh!! But it recovered and put on some tiny new leaves.

Well, I did some more searching on the internet and found that this plant I have is a host plant for the Gray Hairstreak butterflies and is also a nectar plant for Hummers!!!

Ya coulda knocked me over with a feather when I read that! So.............. I guess I will be keeping them or trying to transplant them to another area. I shall be experimenting!!!!

AND .............. it is a bog plant! HA! No wonder it found my bog(less) garden beds! LOL!

This message was edited Apr 23, 2007 12:06 AM

They all belong to the main family Fabaceae, which has been subdivided into three subfamilies:
Papilionaceae, Caesalpiniaceae, and Mimosaceae, which makes it very confusing.
Josephine.

Ok...I'm confused already, and I think Josephine has opened a whole new can of worms for me...or should that be cats?! ;)

First, which plant do you have? The Rattlebush? From the plantfiles it doesn't appear to be a Senna/Cassia but now I remember why I did like!

Second, I didn't know there was a naturalized Senna! Now I'm even more confused over which plant is what. (previous thread) Now I've learned, thanks to Josephine, that the little Senna/Cassia that I saw at the Botanic Gardens and fell in love with is the S. corymbosa, rather than C. bicapsularis. And you ask why I haven't looked these up in the PlantFiles?! No idea, except that alot of the time my search doesn't work.

I hate when I've gotten confused but this time it's ok because I've still got the plant I wanted and it's a naturalized plant!

I'm interest to know what that 2nd pic of Debnes is because I've seen those come up for years at my parents and always pull them up.

Oh Josephine, you have just become too smart for us!! But thank goodness you share your wealth!!

So basically all of these plants with these shapes of leaves might all turn out to be a Sulphur host plant!

I always thought all those little seedlings (like Debnes) were little Mimosa trees because my parents had two of them for years. We actually loved the trees so I should let some grow.

Josephine - Okay ..... I need my hand held here. So what do you know about the Rattlebush? Is it a tree? Are there other butterflies besides the Gray Hairstreak that it attracts? Inquiring minds want to know. It has just shown up in my garden beds, do I keep the 6 that are growing so far, transplant them somewhere else, or pull them up???? It has similar characteristics of the Cassia, but it is NOT a Cassia/Senna. Correct?

Let me clarify something ..... I am a newbie gardener. Only been gardening for 2 years and mostly within the past year. I am very good at digging and planting! But knowledge of plants is not my strong point. I am also good at web browsing and searching. But that can sometimes leave a lot to be desired. So, there ya have it .... I need a little more information if you would ..... please, please, please!

This message was edited Apr 23, 2007 1:03 AM

I'm sure Josephine can give you more info but I'm sitting here looking thru my Southern Living Garden Book in my lap reading about these. I've Googled too but that just confused me too. lol

Yours is a Sesbania, of the Fabacea family. S. drummondii is "Rattlebush" and S. punicea is "Rattle Box", sometimes sold as "Daubentonia. Both of these get huge! The 2nd one has orange/red blooms that are beautiful! I've not heard of anyone (in my small internet world) that has raised cats on one, but it's not a normal garden plant either. It's in the family but not actually a Senna or Cassia.

I just realized too that I've got the Cassia that I wanted but now I'm not sure that Sulphurs will actually use this one. ?? I guess I won't know unless I try it tho. Now I have to get C. bicapusularis seeds and try again for that plant.

Yeah, Paige. I AM CONFUSED! Big time! I hope Josephine comes back and clears my cloud of confusion. The rattlebush has small yellow flowers similar to the cassia plants. But those suckers get tall FAST! I mean it sticks out in my garden like a sore thumb. It will be a shade tree for the entire garden bed that it is in ......in about a month. No lie!

I've not seen a single butterfly near it either. Or anything else for that matter.

It's not like my butterfly weed plant that barely got 12 leaves on it and got eaten to the ground in two days by a night cat. Apparently the cat buried itself in the ground during the day and came out at night to feast. I was out there with my trusty flashlight and found this huge fat cat polishing off the last 2 leaves. It was ugly bad, like a grub. So over the fence it went without it's suitcase. (Or rather was thrown.) No more host plant to eat anyway, so I figured it could find another plant to eat to the ground on the other side of the fence. Grass just might be greener over there since it ate my plant completely!! Humph!

Well that scoundrel!! I would have sent him to the landfil. You're nicer than me Becky, lol.

For years I didn't get the books when they listed Cassia or Senna for a larval host. I found that it's best to dig deeper and find people with actual experience to know which ones are viable hosts. I've also found it interresting that this preference varies in different geographical areas.

Every year that I've grown C. alata, not a single Sulphur...and I don't think it was ants either. They just weren't looking for this particular Cassia in this area.

I've definitely found that personal experience is the best info!! I read books but never hesitate to ask because it's just not all written down. I think we've all learned something new here in this last year thanks to us all living in different areas and being so excited to tell each other what we find.

O.K. Girls, I will try to clarify things a bit.
The plant I have is Sesbania drummondii, this is a very nice bush or small tree and it is a perennial native.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/77138/index.html


The one Becky had is Sesbania herbeceae, a native annual that grows very fast.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/68448/index.html

There is another one Sesbania vesicaria, another native annual that is very pretty.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/107662/index.html

The last one is, Sesbania punicea, this plant is naturalized in Texas, and has been classified as a Texas invasive. It is a perennial with very pretty flowers.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1256/index.html

These plants are legumes, Fabaceae family, and all legumes are food for a lot of the lesser or less showy butterflies, that is why I mentioned it.

I have never kept track of cats on my Sesbania drummondii, because up to just recently I have been more into the plants for themselves, but I will try to keep an eye on it this year and see what happens.

Since the plant Becky has is an annual, I would keep at least one and see how it goes, but it may be that the butterflies it attracts are not exciting.
Any way, at least you know what it is, and you might end up having some fun with it.
I hope this helps.
Josephine.

This message was edited Apr 23, 2007 2:03 PM

Becky,

The foilage on the plant in the photo looks similar to the cassias I have, even though the ones I have are cassia bicapsularis. I know what you mean about slow growing....I planted the seeds last winter and the seedlings are still only two inches big. I transplanted three of the seedlings to the garden last week (hoping that this would stimulate growth) but so far no luck, I planted them in a place where they will get morning sun but not much afternoon sun. Will this be a deterrent to growth? Let me know if you find something that works!!!

Have a good day!!

Thanks,

Chuck

Thanks Josephine! I appreciate the clarification about the Sesbania herbeceae. I will keep a couple of the plants in my garden beds to see what does come around. If nothing does, then I will pull them all up. All I read was the gray hairstreaks like this plant. But I haven't seen any butterflies even near it yet.

Chuck - The plants I have sprouting and growing so fast are in full sun for pretty much most of the day.

An interesting thing about my Privet Cassia (small tree). It gets leaves, then flowers, and then seed pods immediately following the flowers. But when the seed pods are growing it drops all it's leaves. I did transplant it into a bigger pot thinking it was root bound. It wasn't. So maybe the transplant is causing the leaves to drop off the plant. Though .... last year it did the same exact thing. And it bloomed 3 times in about 10 months. The thing that is bothering me about this plant is that I pruned the little branches back and now it seems to have it's growth and top branch spreading stunted. It gets leaves, blooms, and gets seed pods, but never gets any larger. I don't know ..... (sigh).

Big BUMP!

Today I discovered sleepy orange sulfur larvae on my C. alata, and I am delighted. I hope there is enough of it left to bloom before frost. :D

Amanda~
What one Sleepy Orange can eat off the Cassia at this point will hardly be noticeable. I usually put them in an easy cat cage* when they are visible, bc if I can see them, so can the wasps and warblers. They can be observed in the cage, and cuttings can be placed in there tucked inside wet floral foam. This way you can clip from where you want. When they are small, they prefer the newer growth, after they are an inch or so they can eat the larger leaves... about one a day.

Deb
* http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/747907/?hl=easy+cat+cage

This message was edited Sep 12, 2011 12:04 PM

Deb - you're a goddess. I'm sure you've heard that before. ;)

Thanks for the thread.

A.