Sudden dead koi - HELP!!

I bought 2 koi (6-7") and 2 shubunkin 17 days ago. I have had my pond going well for 2yrs with goldfish and decided it was finally time to put some money into the fish. One koi (beautiful gold/yellow) was fine one day, lathargic the next (not eating, staying to itself, etc), and dead the day following. I have looked him over for ANY signs of ANYTHING and am baffled. This is my first experience with koi - any ideas?? The other one seems fine and active, but I'm nervous not knowing the cause. Water tests come out 0 for nitrate, nitrite, and amonia. PH is 6.8, but the alkalinity is bearly at 80 (I know it is low), but would this alone kill a koi? If so, any quick fix ideas to fix it. I have EXTREMELY soft water (well water), so the PH plus stuff doesn't seem to bring it up much without using a ton.
ANY Help would be greatly appreciated!!
-Dev

P.S The shubunkin are a little more easy to keep than the koi aren't they?

So sorry you lost the fish :(

As long as your PH is not bouncing up and down it is not what killed the fish, you should try and find something to buffer your PH to prevent a PH crash though, not even goldfish are good with PH crashes.

Did you inspect the fish and look for anything out the ordinary, especially the gills? Newly purchased fish often have a reduced immune system from the stress........It could be some sort of parasite.

azreno's right. It's not the alkalinity. Our city water is softened and the Kh is 1! It doesn't get any lower than that. Koi have no problem with it. I'll bet that new koi had another problem already in place when you got it. The stress of the moves ( first from the breeder/wholesaler to the retailer then on to you) allowed what was already bothering it to win. Rapid Ph swings are serious trouble for most fish. You definitely don't want it to bounce around. You also don't want to get caught in a never ending cycle of artificially maintaining a certain Ph/Kh level when it's not necessary. Look at you Ph over a 24 hr period at various intervals. First see if you really have a water problem. I doubt it. Don't get another fish for a month or so until you're certain your remaining fish have shown no signs of disease. Most of all don't let this experience deter you from koi keeping. We all lose one once in a while. I had one (of 8) get dropsy last spring. I did everything I knew to treat it but the darned thing was determined to go to the big koi pond in the sky. The other 7 stayed perfectly healthy. The replacement fish is healthy. Go figure!

There's also no accounting for bad genes. Large spawns in a breeders pools don't necessarily have the advantage of survival of the fittest whereby the weak die out naturally. Some are simply weaker as far as their immune system goes. Don't let this steer you away!

Sorry about the fish. It's hard to lose them, I know.

I usually buy baby koi (3 - 4") They're cheaper, but more than that---even though they look delicate, they are tough little suckers. I've found that when I get the larger ones, they are more vulnerable to changes. I bought nine 4" golden ogons about 10 years ago, and ended up with 6 after the first year. By the time I lost the last one a year ago, the remaining two (who had been thru 2 pond rebuilds at my house that were really hard on the others) were about 18 inches long. We had a rough spring last year: it got really warm really early, and then turned nasty and cold in early summer. I lost a LOT of fish last year. Sometimes it's the water, and sometimes it's the weather, and sometimes it's the fish. And usually it's really hard to pinpoint the reason they die.

Good luck!

Shubunkins are hardy little things....I've rarely lost one. I agree with your fish loss was either stress or a parasite. Usually, the minute you see a fish isolate himself, it's time to take some sort of quick action. Separate them and put them in salted water in his own isolation tank. Have a little medicated food on hand, although at that point, you may not get them to eat. For small fish that you can fit in a 10 or 20 gallon tank, there are medications avaialable at most better pet stores like PetSmart. You can get antibiotics, anti-fungals, and anti-parasitic meds.
Sometimes, it's just a fishes time to go....even if he's young.....Be more concerned if you have massive fish losses, that usually signals a true problem, and not a weak fish.

Hi, yes goldfish are eaiser to keep than koi. but the koi was probably stressed and it just died. every koi has bugs, and when it gets stressed they attack, and a lot are microscopic..you cant see so that is probably the reason. One other could have been a normal death. People die of normal things to... same with koi...
Regards,
Rick

Very true Rick.... Thanks for your expertise on this one, it's always tragic for small ponders to lose fish.....they are more of a pet.....

Yup, when you have thousands its ok but not when you have 5 or 6.... know what I mean?
Regards,
Rick

I just want to thank everyone for your input - I took the koi back to the store (which is a specialty store for koi, not just a pet store) and they looked it over and found no signs of illness - they also agreed it was probably a stress issue. We checked my water and it was practically identical to theirs... so I bought 2 more to replace the one. Hopefully there will be now more unspected death issues. :-)

Thanks again!!

Best of luck!

Best of luck to you Devo-
Last Summer, I too lost two big Kois in my already established pond. It was really difficult to see them go. Especially those that you have named for. DH and I tried everything, called every resources we could have found. We isolated the Fish, tried to treat them without prevails. One source said it could have been a virus, luckily my Shabunkins, and other golds fish did fine. I've yet found a replacement for my Koi, especially "The Boss" a solid golden koi with a confident disposition. The rest of the fish faired well over winter. I'm more careful now introducing new fish into the ponds. Especially the sources of the new comers for fear of introducing diseased fish into the pond.

Uhg....and we all learn the hard way that we really need to quarantine fish for a while after they arrive. We just get so darn anxious to add them to the pond! Every now and then you get silly and add them directly to the pond, only to find out a crummy little 3 inch fish can wipe out fish you've had for years....
Keep us updated Devonee....most problems one ponder has had, is the same one we've all had at some point...

It seems we all have to learn the hard way. I bought some cheap fish last spring and put them right in the pond after 6-7 days and I think that is where the anchor worm came from, EVERYTHING gets quarantined now.

Yup. Even if the koi come from walmart or the biggest best koi place ever always quarantine. Do you need any instructiions on how to quarantine? what medication? how long?
Regards,
Rick

I quarantine unless it comes from a REPUTIBLE Koi dealer and I can pick them up myself. I never buy anything from WM anymore because they always have dead fish in their tanks, & the Koi are not as nice as the ones you can get at a dealer. Luckily I have a dealer about an hour or so away.

flkoifarm;
Yes, yes, yes, please share more info. about how to properly quarantine new fish before bringing them into our ponds.

Thank you,
Kim

1. buy a tub 65-150 gallons.
2. buy water treatmeant.
3. buy test kits.. ph, nitrite, nitrate, salt level, copper, amonia
4. buy aquarium salt.
5. float bag of koi in this tank for 30 min.
6. buy medicated food.
7. watch koi dailly for signs of dieseases
8. test water daily.
9. keep koi in the quarantine tank for 3 weeks.
10. ENJOY YOUR FISH!!!!

Any other quaetions just let me know. We follow all of these procedures.
Regards,
Rick

Question in regard to salt use.
The reason why salt is needed: killing parasistic organism?
How much to use per gallon of h2o.
Thanks

Salt is used to kill bacteria and parisites. So yes. 3oz per gallon Anything else?lol Thanks!!
Rick

oh, I've many more ...questions, but that will do for now. Thank you, Rick.
Kim

No problam. i think i will start a thread to ask me questions...lol..... easier to keep track of.

ooooh, yes please! I will have lots of questions too! Dev, so sorry to hear of your loss... we've just built a pond and are installing pump and filter this weekend, then plants and fish... this is scary stuff! Hope all goes well now!

Brenda

I have a 150 gallon Rubbermaid stock tank. I placed a half dozen of the koi I wanted to cull in it & lost several within 24 hrs. Do I need to add an air source? Or does the container need to be cleaned beyond rinsing it well to keep culled fish in it until picked up by their new owners? We have well water that is the same I use for my pond with no problems at all for my fish.

Loretta

You need ot have an air rator

That's what I thought when it happened. Thanks for the reply.

Loretta