I guess there isn't much for them to do but mine seem adamant about working the rocks in my planters until they are out of the pot. Why are they doing that? I have kitty litter topped by gravel and then larger rocks. Well they are is kins of gravel on my pond floor now and I have to be careful as to where I walk when barefoot. I had such a nice clean floor and now it's a mess down there.
Also, those suckers are eternally hungry or better act as if they are starving. Maybe they eat all the time out of boredom too.
I don't know if it was Jerry or who but somebody here is covering the rocks with plastic fencing material. How do you do that once you have the pots in the water and lots of water lily leaves and flowers are growing in them? Is it too late? I guess my plants will always be actively growing. Do you just cut the stems and flowers off and let them grow all over again? I can't really lift my pots out of their position but I could poke holes into the plastic pots and weave some kind of wire through them to hold the material but wouldn't that look horrible in the pond? Maybe I just need bigger rocks?
I'm sure I'm not the only one with koi who have nothing else to do except mess up the planters. Or am I?
I already removed all my water hyacinths as they were eating all the roots off them. The hyacinths are now out of their reach and growing nicely again. They are even blooming with pretty flowers. But once I have lots of hyacinths I plan to put them back again and hope they can outgrow the koi.
Comments?
Fred
Do KOI get bored?
Hi Fred,
I don't have Koi but in all my reading on them, they seem to have a reputation for digging up plants. Many people find that they cannot have both koi and plants because they koi will destroy/eat the plants in no time. I'm sure someone will come by who has experience with keeping koi and plants in harmony. I know it has been done, but the majority find they have to choose. Good luck!
Toss in a small cabbage chunk and watch them have a go at it. They also enjoy watermelon, orange and grapefruit slices or wedges. They like romain lettuce too.
Plastic fencing placed over the top of the pot or tub with plastic wire ties (drill holes in the lip of the tub or pot for the ties) will keep the koi from rooting in the pot. Fencing with one inch holes will allow the plant stems/stalks to easily grow up through the holes. You can put the fencing on after the plant is actively growing but it isn't easy. You have to gently roll the leaves into a cylinder and carefully thread everything up through the holes. I've done it. Now every pot is covered right from the start. The fencing is hardly noticable. You might still need some stones/rocks in the pot, under the fencing on top of the soil, for weight.
I also make sure I carefully trim the fencing so that no sharp edges hang out over the edge of the pot. I have even taken a flame from a grill lighter and slightly melted the ends to really blunt them.
Back to koi entertainment - I have two koi that seem to love going up under the waterfall and doing barrel rolls in the turbulance. If you really want to give them something to interact with try a cheap bubbler.
Ah, it was snapple with the fencing. I should have listened to you right away when I planted my pots. I just didn't think thery could move my rocks and I didn't have the 4 big boys in the pond then either. I would need a 5 pounder to resist them.
I have these two huge papyrus pots sitting a couple of inches under the water level. Wouldn't you know that one of my big koi keeps trying to get on top of the pots and gets himself into strange fish walking situations. I mean he's almost completely out of the water and only realizes it too late. Then he squirms and splashes to get back off the pot. It's hilarious to watch. He doesn't want to learn from the experience. Or maybe he likes it out of the water.
I do have a small pump and a bubbler but both are still in a box. Been busy with other projects to install them but I will.
I have to finish a painting project before a dropped ceiling is installed on Monday.
Youy mean I can feed my koi grapefuit? I have oodles going to waste. I will try that tomorrow.
Fred
PS still clear without UV
My rule of thumb is the size of the largest nose in the pots- rocks for the tops of pots have to be bigger :)
Fred, Remember when I said I have carefully threaded stems and leaves up through the fencing? That's because I did not think a koi could take a full actively growing potted lily, tip the pot, root it right out of the pot and tow it around the pond. I learned the very hard way. There is no safeguarding water hyanciths though. Can't have em. This morning I went to the pond and the koi were trying to root in the potted rushes. They are up on a ledge where the koi have less leverage and they stay reasonably safe.
I also got a nasty surprse. Saprolegnia or cotton wool fungus as it is commonly called. One fish has it. Don't worry Fred. It is highy unlikely you will ever encounter it. It most commonly occurs in cold water. So now I am treating that. Just did a 25% water change and added a chemical treatment. If the first dose doesn't knock it out I will to have to repeat in 4 days. If that doesn't work then I will have to catch and dip the fish in potassium permanganate. I've done it before and it is one awful job. However, I was successful. The fish recovered and it did not spread to any other. Oh, the joys of fish keeping.
I gave up on pots a long time ago. I just put the plants directly into the water. I don't have a problem with them messing with then like that. The turtle will chew off a limb every now & then but other than that I'm OK.
If I put my plants right in the water I would have plant salad in about 1/2 hour. When I toss in a vegetable treat they come torpedoing through the water, take a glancing shred and rocket off in another direction. They hang at the bottom grinding the treat, then repeat the attacks until only tiny confetti sized pieces are left. Some do evasive barrell rolls as though avoiding an interception. It's entertaining, as long as it isn't your prized lotus plant.
My koi are that way for food but really don't mess with the plants. I'm glad. The Victoria waterlily that is my prize has leathal spines on the stem and under side of the leaves. I don't even like messing with it.
Jeri
Analyzing my situation - with a concrete bottom I can't very well just drop plants into the pond. I believe waterlilies do need a place to root.
I looked at some of the orange fencing material. I'd have to buy a whole roll of the stuff or steal some on he road someplace. I think a better solution is to leave enough wall space in the pot so that the larger rocks can't very well be carried up and out. They can push them around only to find another layer of rocks below. The pots where I have enough wall space (space between the top of the pot rim and the crown of the plant) there doesn't seem to be any damage from digging. It's when I filled the pots to the brim were they push things out.
My lilies are all in full bloom but I'm missing pure white ones I thought I had purchased. Most are blue and yellow. Then there are some purple ones. So far no real reds or whites. Maye they are late bloomers. :-)
Water is beautifully clear and all is well. I tried feeding my pets some grapefruit but they are nobly ignoring the gift. Maybe it's not cut right? I have barrels of grapefruit and simply cut one up into 1/8th pieces and threw them into the pond. Even if they were interested, how would they stop the fruit from floating away when trying to nibble?
I guess I'll try some lettuce next.
Fred
fred, here is link for the type of fencing that is green. The photo shows how it looks. That is a large lotus, "Mrs. Perry D. Slocum" just breaking dormancy. The koi is Zelda, a Showa and an Isralie import.
http://www.boddingtons-ltd.com/forestry/garden-mesh.htm
When I toss in the grapefruit it is halved, then quartered. But, if your koi arn't eating it by all means don't leave it in the pond. There are plenty of other treats to try. My koi actually like the cabbage and the romaine lettuce best. The romain is seldom because I would rather eat it myself thank you. Cabbage, again quartered, is cheaper and seems to give them more exercise.
I'm surprised you could find orange snow fencing in sunny Florida! I have not been able to find an online seller for the green plastic mesh but I will keep looking. I bought mine at Menard's.
This message was edited Apr 17, 2007 1:46 PM
Bingo! found something similar.
http://lawn-and-garden.hardwarestore.com/39-470-snow-fence/green-plastic-snow-fence-619594.aspx
yeah, that netting is nice. I didn't even know the orange stuff was snow fencing. Here they have it at Lowes and HD as construction barriers. It's $38 per roll, 4 feet high and I don't know how many feet long.
If I'm going to do this I can also use the white plastic panels used in dropped ceilings under the lights. I used that stuff in my bio filter as support for the filter material. It cuts easily and a piece of wire would hold it to the pot. I don't know how big lily stems get. Maybe the little squares are too small.
Fred
I wish I could find the name of the stuff I bought because it was 2' x 25'. Much more managable. And less expensive. I'll look the next time I am at Menards. The plastic grating you are talking about, if the holes are half inch, I think it would work nicely. Any non reactive water proof grid that would allow the plants to grow and keep big koi noses out is the goal. There are a few goldfish in the koi pond ( a big mistake) that actually swim in and out under the green fencing. They don't cause any harm and it is odd to see them wiggle in and out.
I found large holed jersey mesh fabric in black (like football pinnies are made of) I planted my water plants in the fabric, no soil, but rocks and black aquarium gravel, then tied it up loosely so other sprouts can still come up through the opening. I too have a cement bottom pond, so I can plop them anywhere in the pond, and although they sometimes get nudged around, the fish still can't get to the roots, so new growth will always emerge.
I also have planted things in the cement half blocks, as an under water flow pot. After I put the plant in (bare-rooted) I fill it up with the large black 2-3inch river rocks. They seem to be too big to be moved by the fish. The plants have all survived and thrived apparently getting enough nutrition from the water.
Clever MerryMary!
Snapple, any chance it was pvc coated wire mesh? You can get it at home depot, it's with the hardware cloth and in similar gauges but slightly larger size openings.
No, unfortunately. What I have is completely plastic. I've cut it enough and melted the ends to be absolutely certain. I am going to Menard's this evening after dinner. If they still carry it (I bought it last spring) I will get the label information and post it. It is sold as garden fencing.
The fencing is from Conwed: Product Number x02780-002 $8.99 for a roll 2x25. I found Conwed's web site but I could not find the product among the hundreds they have listed. Menard's had a heap of fresh stock so apparently they do still manufacture it. They also make it in 4 x 50 rolls. I have to put up a temporary fence to protect some shrub and ornamental grass borders from road construction this spring. We are getting a complete new road in front of my house, widening, curbs, gutter, sidewalks and a new water line to boot. I can't wait for the mess. The town just did a connecting street in the same fashion last summer and it was hell for those people. The construction crews swung their buldozer buckets into the trunks of mature trees, threw stone piles practically up to people's front doors and left pipe and other debris piled way up in front yards. It ain't gonna happen here folks!
I also defrost frozen peas and use them as a koi snack when they seem to be picking the plants apart too much. They scarf them down like crazy.
Why is having goldfish in a koi pond a big mistake? I have 4 large (18" or so)koi and a great number of large goldfish (but smaller than my koi). I've never noticed any problems having both together. But I have given up having most aquatic plants. Duck potato seems to be able to exist with all the koi antics, but that is the only one so far that survives year to year. We've had in our 3'deep pool since the early 90s.
Hey guys check this out.
That is one end of my pond with plants, planted directly in the liner pond with no pots except for the Victoria is in a pot.
This is a picture of some of the koi and goldfish I have in the same pond.
There is no problem with keeping koi and goldfish in the same pond. Goldfish DO poop more, so you need to make sure your ammonia levels are ok. Koi and goldfish will also interbreed, so if you are looking for purebred koi babies in the future, it won't always be the case. If you don't care one way or the other, like most of us backyard ponders, it's all good.
When I get back to FL this fall I'm going to get me one of those saucers you have in your pond Jerri. It sure looks beautiful there in LA.
I was just reading the paper and of course 10 pounds of it is advertisements, half for houses. This one place popped up with a 40,000 gal screened in koi pond. It's part of the lanai which also includes a pool. If you have to ask 'how much?' you probably can't afford it. :-) This is probably one of those guys who flies to koi shows in his jet with koi tanks built in. The place is here in the Port Royal secton of Naples where even an empty lot costs many millions. Oh well!
Fred
Fred....I think you have some work to do....
Apparently, it's THAT house that needs to host our next Ponders Round-Up!
I'll be there, I'm getting my keys as we speak...
:D
All we have to do is cough up about 5 million and we can have a RU party there. Me? I'd be lost in such a house. I'd rather have a large garden to putter in. I wouldn't mind seeing that pond though.
Fred
Goldfish in my pond became problem because of their staggering reproductive rate. I started with 4 and wound up with over 100 in 4 years time. My pond is not large enough to support them and they showed no signs of slowing down. I got down to a dozen last July. Today I counted roughly 25. Here I go again. I have just 2000 gals and 8 large koi. I have koi in the 12 to 24 inch range. They need all the water volume they can get or I'm gonna have problems. If I won the lotter it's 15,000 gals. for me first thing. Forget the house.
Snapple,
I found the fencing/netting today at Lowes. They had all kinds if different chicken wire and at ACE I saw similar stuff sold for deer fencing but their rolls were too big and expensive.
I will take some pics over the weekend.
Fred
snapple!
Take pics! I'd love to see your big guys! (I'll adopt any that get too big!)
:)
To answer the questioin " do koi get bored " nope. The have almost no clue what is going on.
I know fish aren't the brightest of creatures on this planet but some animals are constantly curious and reinspecting their environment while others simply exist where they are and hang around. I supect that koi are always on the lookout for food, ie algae or anything else which can be found. So boredom has noting to do with it. When they work the rocks, they are simply digging for some goodies to snack on.
So, we had this long discussion about how to have them coexist with plantlife without destroying it. Some people have said that you can't have both koi and a water garden in the same place. Others have no trouble at all and others yet use protective measures for the plants. So we had suggestions as to how to do that and were looking for the proper material. One needs to look for plastic tree, deer or chicken netting as the fish folks haven't grasped the problem yet.
I purchased two small rolls of material at Lowes yesterday. One is a tree protection mesh while the other is ordinary 1" chicken coop netting. My plan is to add some more lilies in my pond but place them in an area surrounded by the chicken coop barrier. Little fish can still get through but the big boys are prevented from going there. I hope that small fry will have a chance to grow there. I will drill some holes in pvc pipe and use plastic ties to hold the net around the pvc pipes. That will be a sanctuary to test my theory. Nearby I will hang a mop or something for eggs to hatch.
The green mesh I will use to cover my pots as I get a chance to replant my lilies. Here is a picture of both materials as bought at Lowes:
This message was edited Apr 28, 2007 1:05 PM
Looks good! When you get the lilly corral in place post pics. I think I could use that idea to keep a few water hyancith.
Mary
My water hyacinths are out of the main pond where the koi were simply eating the roots. At fist they were doing fine. A couple even bloomed. Now they are pretty sick looking. Yellow, brown and black leaves with very little green. But a picture will be worth a thousand words.
Do these hyacinths look normal to you guys or mostly gals?
Fred
Yup, that's normal for hyancith that are being eaten to extinction by koi! And, why I hope your corral idea will work in my pond.
But Mary (snapple),
these plants have been out of koi reach for over a month now. Lots of string algae around them. That stuff seems to grow like crazy.
Do the UV lamps kill string algae too?
fred
First as to the hyacinth, I'm stumped. Hopefully someone here will recognize the problem. Do they have any roots? Hyacinth should have a mat of long fibrous roots. The koi ate/eat the roots right off and the plant struggles and dies. If it isn't koi damage then I do not know.
UV's do not kill string algae, only the single cell floating green kind. String algae is a pain to control. It loves waterfalls and sunlight. Hydrogen peroxide applied to the surface it is attached to will knock it off. You have to be careful with H2o2. It can kill plants too. There are several old threads around here somewhere that deal with string algae. Aquascape makes a powdered enzyme product S.A.B. that eliminates string algae and keeps it gone. SAB stands for string algae buster. It is the only product that kills string algae that I know of that doesn't harm plants. Aquascape bought the product rights two years ago and added a few proprietary ingredients of their own. It is expensive. Maybe too expensive. I don't go around recommending it willy nilly becaue of the cost. It works exceptionally well. Most people just pull it out with an old toilet brush fixed to a long handle for better reach. That stuff can take over if you let it. This is a link for the product. I have never used this particular web site so you are on your own there. This is just to give you info on price. http://www.lochnesswatergardens.com/sab7lbs.htm
I see what you mean about cost. I'd have to spend $120 plus tax and shipping about every two months. I think I'll try the manual removal bit first. You say it keeps it gone. Yeah, if you keep treating the pond every month. :-) The hyacinth have some roots but I'll have to pull them up to see what is string algae and what is root. The string stuff is on my waterfall and in my open flow area. The pond itself seems to be OK. Maybe the Koi eat the stuff there. My main concern is my absence when I trust the pond to a neighbor who really doesn't have a clue. I can't just fly into Naples from wherever I am to see what the matter may be. I can only hope for the best. During June, July and August I should have a camera on the pond for remote checking. At some point I may just do that via the net. The problem then is keeping a computer running without fail and without human intervention.
Fred
Yup, you gotta be running on both ends. I use remote viewing for our business. I can watch from home or when we travel on a wireless laptop. Keeps the employees on their toes. I don't exactly find it relaxing though. You take your problems with you where ever you go. I have pulled up the cameras, picked up the phone and threatened to fire people on the spot. Are there pond maintenance services available in your area? You can hire them here to look out for your stuff while on vacation. Locally they usually have notices/flyers on bulletin boards in the pond stores or places where water plants are sold.
Two tubs of SAB last me nearly, but not quite a season. I have found it cheaper. I usually buy it in the fall when it sometimes goes on sale and store enough over the winter for the next season. You have a 12 month season! Different story! Boy, your water garden/koi pond is beautiful. There should be a better more dscriptive name for it. Whatever, it is a prize winner. Search some of the old threads for string algae control. Since I took the easy way out I havn't paid much attention to it and there may now be effective and cheaper management strategies.
Thanks for the idea with the string mesh. I just got some koi. YAAY! I know that the pond I have right now is too small and I am planning on working on a bigger one this year. I think I will try the mesh idea to see if I can keep a few plants in the current one to provide shade for the fish. Right now it just has a small waterfall flowing from a large pot to keep the water fresh and no place for the fish to go for security or to get out of the sun. If the plant idea does not work what can I put in there to for that purpose? I have some old bricks and also a lot of old cinderblocks that have weathered for a couple of years, but I keep reading about how koi like to root around and knock thinks over and I do not want them to smash themselves flat!