New pond project now under way - join us!

It's exciting to be building our first garden pond. DG members have been so generous with their encouragement and advice on the two other threads that started us down this path. Both of those threads have morphed into recordings of the pond's progress. I thought it best to combine them into this new thread devoted to the building of the pond, recording it's progress, sharing our excitement and providing a forum for continued advice from experienced ponders.

The two original threads concerned the transplanting of Japanese Maples: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/695809/

and choosing a pond liner: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/701133/

This photo was taken 3 days ago on March 14th, 2007.

Debra



This message was edited Mar 18, 2007 8:14 AM

'The hole'

This is the bed as it looked last year....we have lived here 4 summers and the bed has had something different in it every year. My 2007 New Year's Resolution was to develop a permanent design and finally have a nice view from our dining room window.

This plan developed from the need to transplant 2 Japanese Maples from pots into the ground. The larger of the 2 JP's will be located in the corner of the retaining wall with a boulder between it and the pond forming a triangular pattern for the eye to follow. That's the basic plan - although water iris and hostas that were temporarily pulled from the bed will be returned, the remaining plant choices are still under consideration.

I welcome ideas!

Debra,

That's going to be a lovely spot to put a pond. I love the picture from inside your dining room. My pond is visible from bedroom and dining room windows - I love that. Yours is going to be even closer though. What are your plans? Waterfall? Fountain? What will you have for filtration? Can't wait to see it progress. Keep posting pictures!

Christina

Thanks, Christina. I'm thinking very low waterfall - only two or three stones high. I went to a local pond supply store recently to gather information on the filtration system. They were so nice. The owner came out yesterday (they are nearby) and spent at least 30 minutes giving me ideas and advice. He sent me a detailed list of all the parts recommended. He knows we plan to do it ourselves and is available for advice anytime we need it. That made me feel much better about the whole thing. I was starting to question our abilities to install the filter/pump system but he assures me it's not that difficult.

Based on his advice, I started work on a slight change in the shape of the pond. The planned bog area will be filled in because this is the best area for either the waterfall or filter system - depending on which end I decide for one or the other. I originally planned the waterfall on the opposite end from the tree, but he suggested I consider having the water appear to come from behind/under the tree as the tree gets larger and I like that idea. He also pointed out what I already knew was a mistake - shelves on the near side of the pond. Plants will block the view of the pond. So...the shelf is being dug out which actually leaves more space for fish. Plants can sit on raised pots from the opposite side. He was very helpful.

Any opinions on skimmers and UV light? Is a skimmer necessary? Is is reasonable to think we can use a net to keep debris skimmed from a 10' x 5' pond? Is the light necessary to keep the water clear?

Debra

Debra: UV light is not necessary, but it is helpful. It does more than keep the water clear, it also helps to keep bacteria down in the pond. Since you have a small pond and you're not planning on having koi, that's not as much of an issue. I think if I were you, I'd hold off on the light and see how the pond does during the first year. You'll probably be able to clear it up with plants, and keep it clear.

A skimmer of some sort I think is more important. My pump has a filter-basket that I can easily empty out, and it's fed by the skimmer. Otherwise, especially since your pond is under the tree & will have plants in it, you may be dealing with manually scooping leaves and algae and stuff out frequently. You'd be surprised how tedious that can be.... My fish also tend to eat all of their dinner, because they know if they don't it will be going into the skimmer---it won't be available for snacks later on!

Janet

If it were me, I would get the UV light to keep maintenance down. Algea can clog the view and make the pond green, and the light will stop that from happening.

Sounds like you found a great resource in a small business owner...they are the best!

Laura

Yes, Laura, he is a great resource. Once the pond is installed they are only about 10 minutes away if I need any trouble shooting advice. They are the only pond supply specialty store in town that I'm aware of - most nurseries carry supplies, but that's all this business does. How great is that? They have a huge selection of koi and showed me the difference in water treated with the UV light and not. It seems to make a big difference - I'd like to have a nice clear pond if possible.

Janet, I'm pretty sure we will get a skimmer. Probably everything he recommended! That's funny about your fish knowing the food with not last forever. LOL!

We accomplished quite a bit today but the photos haven't been loaded yet. Will share them tomorrow. I'm TIRED! Back breaking work today - but still very enjoyable.

Debra

I'm really glad I got the UV light for my big pond....it's an investment, and the replacement bulbs can be pricey (I've found them on eBay for a lot less). But if you can put it somewhere it will be inconspicuous, and you have good advice on how to integrate it into your system---which it sounds like you do---GO for it! They make a big difference in water quality.

Janet, I'm convinced it's worth adding the light. From what I've seen, the water is much more clear. Need to look back at his notes, but I believe it is incororpated into one of the other units and is very easy to add. Hoping that is the case!

Here is where we are first thing this morning. Funny thing how I race out to the courtyard as soon as I wake up to look at....what? Do I expect it to have changed overnight? LOL! It's the last thing on my mind when I go to sleep and the first thing I think of when I wake up.

The suggestion to make the water appear as though it is coming from behind the tree is appealing. The tree will be about where the stake is. My only concern is access. Don't want to break branches trying to get to it, but wouldn't the waterfall need less access than the filter and skimmer? I think I can design it in such a way that access is between the wall and water instead of between the tree and water. Hmmmm.....let's see where we are at the end of today.

Debra

Dumb question - my new best friend (Mark, the pond supply owner) is off today and not available to explain this to me. His list includes a submersible pump, a skimmer, UVlight and inground filter. I believe the UVlight is put inside the skimmer so that leaves 3 units to determine their location. I know the skimmer is located opposite the waterfall, but where should the filter be located? And the pump - which end of the pond? I've searched and searched and cannot find a diagram of these features showing where to locate them. What I find is for much larger more complex systems.

Looking at the photo above - the skimmer will be in the lower right portion of the photo and the waterfall in the upper right portion with the tree to the left of it. Where does the filter and pump go? Am I understanding correctly that a hose runs from the skimmer all the back to the waterfall? That can be done along the base of the retaining wall (far right of photo out of view).

It's been a while since I've built a pond, and a lot of this stuff is integrated now. I can tell you that you want the filter in a location where you can access it easily to clean it out, and your UV light needs to be accessible, too, so you can see that it's working (mine has a tiny glass "porthole" where I can see it at night) and change the bulb.
I don't think it matters which end of the pond you put your pump in if you're using a submersible, as long as it has enough horsepower to lift your water for your waterfall. The farther away you locate it from the actual waterfall, the more "push" it will probably need. Again, I'd recommend putting it somewhere you can access it easily, and where you can disguise it. Your recirculating hose will need to run from your pump to your waterfall----the skimmer and filter can probably be somewhere in between. You don't want your pump to get blocked, so the skimmer and the filter should be in the line before you get to the pump so clean water goes into the pump and circulates to the waterfall. Your skimmer may need to be at a "low" spot so stuff will naturally go there to be sucked into the filter.

Thanks, Janet. That helps me visualize the layout. Just called the pond supply store and surprise! They are open until 3pm. DH wants to see the display falls and systems they have put in so gotta run.....thanks so much for your help. Now I am prepared to ask more intelligent questions!

Debra

Oh, Debra---I'm SO glad they're open----the equipment you decede on will make a difference in the sizes of the holes you need to dig, as well as the locations! Thank goodness you're not going to be dependent on my vague natterings...~~ Hope it all goes well! Keep us posted!
Janet

Janet, your input helped me have a better understanding before getting to the store and being totally confused with all the parts and instructions he gave us. He's very nice and covered every detail plus sent us home with a dvd and book with more instructions.

DH made sure I understood before leaving the house that "we are only going for information - not to buy anything". Yeah, right. He's getting excited about it. We came home with a skimmer and installed it, then decided I should go back today for the underliner and liner so we can install them before it rains again (20% chance today and 40 % chance tomorrow). I did it! Can't believe I was able to get the heavy liner in place as well as I did. Here's a photo of the first test. When DH gets home to help we will add a little more water and work out the wrinkles. It will be easier with one of us in the pond and the other outside.

I think we may have a pond by the end of this coming weekend!

Oh, heck---I'm excited too!! Once you get the water in (I like to use some warm water, or let it warm up in the sun and add a little at a time---assuming there is any sun!) it helps straighten out the wrinkles. You should drain and refill at least once, and then let the circulate for about 3 full days before adding any plants or fish. That first fill-and-drain gets the residue from the liner out of the system, and the 3 days gets the chlorine, etc. out of the water. (Everyone says they're not planning to add fish right away anyway, but it's hard not to when you've gotten everything all done.)
Sounds like your pond store is GREAT! Congratulations on your progress!!

Liner residue.....hadn't thought about that. Good idea. Came in for a quick bite and to post the last photo. Going back out to haul some cement blocks for supporting the waterfall. It will appear as though it's coming from behind the tree. It's going to be so frustrating if it rains tomorrow and I can't play in the pond. :(

Have you got a way of keeping accurate track of how many gallons it ends up holding? Everything you EVER need will ask that, so if you can figure it out now, it will be very helpful later on!!! You can get pretty close with calculations, but it's always nice to really KNOW.

I read about a system that involves measuring the time it takes to fill a certain size container then multiplying that by the time it takes to fill the pond. We will be filling the pond off and on over several days and will never be able to track the time. I think we can get a fairly accurate calculation of the volume due to it's shape and depth. Do you know of any other ways to measure the volume?

Yep. Get a flowmeter water timer. They hook onto the faucet before the hose. You can meter the water going in. You can set it to fill a specific number of gallons. Or you can set it to run a certain length of time and watch to see how much went in on the meter. One brand is Melnor but there are many others. The best thing is you can set it to put in 'X' number of gallons and then go away and forget it. It will shut off automatically. You will not have to baby sit the hose (or worse forget about it until you remember it in the middle of the grocery store)!

Are you going to put in an automatic fill device? My step daughter in California has a valve and a float that trips a switch that automatically refills her pond when it drops below a certain level. She swears by it because she lives in sunny CA and refills are rquired quite often due to evaporation. I don't use one, but they sound like they could come in handy.

Well, I have seen garden-hose timers that measure in volume, but it's been a while. Otherwise, you could get a kiddie pool or something that you know the actual gallons. When you take the water out, you could pump or siphon it in there, and however many times you fill it up.....

But you can get within 25 gallons +- on a small pond using the calculations; that will be close enough. And of course if/when you put plants and rocks in, it will displace some water. You need the volume to calculate how many fish you can have (of course, those neighborhood water mocs will have a say in that, too!), any treatments you need to do, your UV lite size, which water lilies you can grow, etc.

Speaking of water lilies, mine are starting to show some leaves, with the warm weather we've had for the past week!

good point, snapple! In the old days, I forgot I was filling mine once, and got up in the morning to "pond" going down the gutter-----I've used those flow-meter timers religiously ever since, and they've both pooped out on me in this winter's freeze. Glad to know they are still available.

I've seen ponds with float valves built-in, too. I think it's an especially good idea for smaller ponds in hot climates where a significant drop in water-level can damage your equipment, even if you have cheap fish. It's nice, too, for people who travel, as it's one less thing to worry about.

Snapple, a flow-meter timer sounds like a good idea. I'm the worst about 'out of sight - out of mind' and leaving the water running. I used to overflow the fountain in photo #3 frequently.

Janet, what kind of lilies do you have? We have some in our big pond but I have no idea what kind they are. Bought them about 10 years ago. One is pink and one is yellow. I love the look of lotus but have not done any research yet. Have no idea if we could grow them.

Oh my yes you can grow lotus. I have them in Zone 5. They are mostly large plants with some smaller varieties. 'Mrs. Perry D. Slocum' (large) and 'Chawan Basu' (small) are outstanding. Their culture is roughly similar to water lillies but there are some very important differences. You will need to do some reading first. They can be expensive.

Seems I've read one or the other requires still water and won't grow if the garden pond has a waterfall feature. Maybe the lotus? I see them in containers more frequently than ponds. I'll read up on both - and will definitely check out the varieties mentioned. May have to have a container water garden, also. Uh oh.....I was warned this would happen! Like Lays potato chips - you can't have just one! LOL!

Snapple, do you have a photo of your pond? Janet, how about you? I think I've seen yours on other threads, but would love to see it again.

This message was edited Mar 19, 2007 6:04 PM

No, you haven't seen mine.....I haven't posted any pix of my ponds because I'm so embarrassed about the edgings......I've dithered about them for so long, but I think I finally have the idea I want from soneone else's thread. Now all I have to do is figure out how to actually DO it! I will take some pix of the front with my waterfall going nicely, but AFTER I get the leaves raked out of the bottom. That was our first pond, and the edges aren't good on it either----there weren't many diagrams of how to do this stuff in those days! Then I'll take before and after pix of my filter pond, which is right in the middle of the back yard, and ask for everyone's advice and encouragement as I go!

I forgot you have the big pond, too. Your hardy water lilies could probably be divided (assuming your and your snakes can come to an understanding) and you could grow one in your new pond. I have a very pale pink one that's in both the front and back. I tried lotus, but couldn't get the hang of it, and decided not to invest in one again! I had a couple of tropicals----one night-blooming that I loved coming home from work to. But I thought it might be warm enough here in the winter not to have to pull it out----I was wrong. And they are quite pricey, so I haven't done that again either. I've put most of my funding into my fish, which I just love. I got 4 baby white koi a couple of weeks ago, and they are doing quite well. I had some real beauties for several years, but last spring we had a VERY bad year, and I lost a bunch, including four 18-inchers that I'd had since they were wee babies. It's almost like losing a dog or cat. I'll post some pix of my fish, so you can see I actually HAVE a pond, and I'm not just making this stuff up!~~

Pond in Spring 2006

Snapple, that's gorgeous! Such clear water, too. What is that beautiful flowering tree?

Janet, you don't have to worry about anyone seeing it but us.......LOL! I'm sure you are more critical of the edge than anyone else. I know that's the way I am. Looking forward to see whatever you feel comfortable showing us.

The tree is Salix integra 'Hakuro-nishiki' . That is the heavy green and white varigation it has in the spring. It does not flower. If you consider using this tree keep in mind that it requires constant heavy pruning. Frankly I hack the dickens out if every other early spring before leafing out and some shaping throughout the summer, every summer! If left to its own devices it resembles a huge shrub on stick. That's because it is! It is a graft on a standard.

The clear water is the product of two 25 watt UV's and regular filter maintenance. Not everyone likes to use UV's. Many prefer barley straw. UV lamps have to be replaced after twelve months of use and they are expensive. I prefer them because in our cooler climate it takes a while for barley to begin adding enough H2o2 (hydrogen peroxide) to the water to begin having an effect on the algae. I would also have to keep adding barley to get it conditioned before the old barley runs out of steam. In short, I'm lazy. UV's are less work. More money, but less work.

Our supply list includes a Savio 18 watt UV light that drops down into the skimmer basket and will hopefully keep ours clear. I hope our 'muscle' shows up Thursday to haul rock and help build the waterfall. They are to come back Saturday while DH is here to transplant the trees. I've got a long list of projects for them - building a long bed along the edge of a wooded area for forsythia, bridal wreath spirea, iris and day lilies. We have two large berms in the front circle that were never shaped properly and need some attention. I hope they are ready to work!

This photo shows one berm inside the circle and the new beds will be to the right of the circle in front of the trees. We've been here since summer '03 and still have years of work to do. But that's the fun of living out here!

Hi Debra,

Waterlilies do like still water, but if your waterfall is not too big they should do okay. Even if you don't get as many blooms, the pads have their own serene beauty. You're making great progress! I can't wait to see it when it's done. That large pond with the lilies and irises is beautiful. Is that yours too?

Christina

Hi Christina,

Thanks. Our 'big' pond is only about 1/2 acre and is stocked with bass, bream and catfish. We have deer feeders next to it and frequently see deer, turkey, wood ducks, raccoons, a heron, etc. Two Canadian Geese spent the day with us today.

We will have to try a lily. Have you ever ordered from Lily Pons? I just remembered I used to get their catalogs and need to find their website.

Do you have a pond with lilies? I'd love to see it.

Debra

snapple, your pond is just beautiful, and I also LOVE the willow. It's on my long list of plants I've managed to kill! All it takes is a day of 107 degrees in the summer here, and things get completely toasted. Hence my love of succulents......

Debra: your woods are gorgeous! The color you're going to put on those berms will really stand out against the green background. Are those trees already leafed out, or is that a picture from summer?

So this isn't actually a shot of my pond yet, but it's the reason I haven't been able to work on any landscapting for the past year----this is my little pottery studio that we've been building in our spare time, such as it is. (My filter pond is in the foreground---and you can see what I mean about the edges.) This picture is about a month old, and it was the middle of the "Big Freeze of '07". The parrot's feather in this pond died back badly, and I thought I might have lost it---but it's all green now, so it looks a bit better! We've been so focused on getting this studio finished that I haven't had the time for much else in the project department. Since this was taken, I've put in a nice white vinyl tile floor (finished yesterday, just in time to track mud in today when it started to rain again). But we desperately need the rain, so I'm not complaining. Told DH "not to worry---this is what Swiffers are for".

Janet, how cool is that?????!!!!!! I can understand your distraction. What kind of pottery do you make? Do you have a website? I've never even tried it but always thought throwing clay on a wheel must be very therapeutic. Do you use a wheel?

The new plantings mentioned about are not for the berms, but will be along the edge of the wooded area just outside the circle. Here's a better shot. The berms will eventually have some deer resistant shrub type plants with berries for the birds. I like viburnums and such, just can't make up my mind. There are some teeny tiny little forsythia planted in them already - the deer keep eating them back. Both of these photos were taken last summer soon after we laid 800 yards of sod - ourselves! No wonder our backs hurt! LOL!

Ponds, fish and plants are only some of my many addictions....there's also clay. I took my first throwing class in '73, and got totally hooked for 2 years. I did a bit here and there for the next 15 years, but wasn't in one place long enough to really get much done. Then in '98 I decided I wasn't going to let the entire century go by without getting back into it. So I signed up for classes again, from a great teacher. I decided I needed to get my own equipment and work at home, because I wanted to work weekends instead of going to classes at night after I got home from work. We bought a wheel and one of those "tarp garage" things----you know what I mean? And I worked in this tent for 7 years. A year ago January we had a big storm that ripped the whole center roof section out of the tent, and last spring we finally demo'd the old Doughboy swimming pool we never used and started putting the "yurt" in its place. DH designed it after a Mongolian yurt http://www.ulaantaij.com/what_is_a_yurt.html, but the walls are wood paneling. The roof is 3-wall polycarbonate bronzed greenhouse material that was hideously expensive, but is TOTALLY cool. Anyway, yes, I throw, but I've been working on tiles for the past couple of years. No, I don't have a website (I suck at selling my stuff), but here's some of my tile work
"http://new.photos.yahoo.com/jwenholz@verizon.net/album/576460762310639098"

Well, for some reason the link doesn't work, unfortunately. Let me try putting quotes around it.....
But back to your project!
800 yards of sod....wow. Can you move the forsythia and replace them with something the deer like less? Is there enough sun on the berms for pyracantha? I know you said you wanted some before, and that might be just the spot! I don't think they would like the thorns---I know I don't. This looks like a really pretty area!

This message was edited Mar 20, 2007 4:30 PM

This message was edited Mar 20, 2007 4:31 PM

This message was edited Mar 20, 2007 4:32 PM

Debra, your property looks marvelous!! I would love to have regular wildlife visitors. We do occasionally have deer, even a moose once, visit the neighborhood, but it's not often enough. I love nature and all things wild!! That being said, I'm also quite fond of my hostas and I hear that deer and hostas are not a good mix, LOL!

I have not ordered from Lily Pons. Did you check them out in the watchdog? I have heard good things about Texas waterlilies. I believe I ordered mine from MacArther Water Gardens and was happy with them too.

This is my pond - it's not finished yet (the aluminum ladder was just a temporary bridge!). Are they ever REALLY finished?? I think I will forever be moving this rock over there and changing just this one more little thing...

edited to say...oops I forgot to size the picture down a little...sorry.

This message was edited Mar 20, 2007 10:13 PM

Wow, Songs, what a spectacular pond!

Songs, your pond is just breathtaking! Do you spend as much time as possible on your deck overlooking it? How do you ever make yourself go back inside?

Janet, what do you do with your pottery projects if you don't sell them? I will try to get to your photo site later today - must get dressed now for my part time job at the med center then will be working as fill in receptionist at DH's firm this afternoon. (can play on the computer all afternoon!)

Gotta run....
Debra

Debra: when I throw, I mostly make bowls and planters; I always have a use for them. I give away a lot of stuff as gifts. And these tile projects are for my house. The big one right now is hand-made inserts for my Saltillo-tile front walk and patio. There's a picture of that in the album I linked. I want to make stepping stones, bird baths, etc.---I've got a lot of rejects for mosaics!

Songs, I am going to get a glass of wine, go outside and listen to my pond with my eyes closed, and see if there's any way I can imagine redesigning it and making it LOOK as pretty as yours!