I guess this should be on the bulb forum, but I'll take the chance of getting my fingers slapped in hopes of a more direct route (path of least resistance, always!).
You mentioned that you grow Daffs competitively. Spring has been announced here by Daffs, everywhere, while almost nothing else is blooming, so they make quite a statement. Having just moved here (Tennessee) I'm way behind the curve in getting mine started. Is there a type that you've noticed naturalizes a bit quicker than others or am I just gonna have to get out there on my hands and knees and with a gazillion bulbs???
Thanks for any advice....!
Illoquin, question?
Well, you have to understand what naturalized daffodils actually are and how to achieve the look.
Believe me when I tell you that the very nicest looking naturalized daffodils look bare nekked the first 2-5 years. The only way to get the really, really cool look is to plant those bulbs individually and somewhat randomly between 1 foot and 3 feet apart and wait for them to fill in through bulb multiplication. Every stem splits the bulb in half, and those might split apart to make rounds -- each round has a flower or they might not split completely, which is how you get double and triple nose bulbs. As they grow and increase they come from the exact same spot in the ground and it is wonderful! Of course, you need to have the kind of soil where the bulbs will be able to spread horizontally. In Indiana, the bulbs will "apartment-ize" which means they increase until they hit the solid clay wall of the hole and then they start in creasing up and up until they are 5 and 6 stories tall and at ground level! These bulbs bloom, are fine, look great naturalized, but they are triangular when you harvest them!
Daffodils do not self seed except some of the species...like the famous Tenby Daffodil in England. You might get 1 pod on every 100 bulbs you grow unless you pollinate the flowers while they are in bloom. It takes 7 years to get a flower from seed here; 6 years in Tennessee, and you will get hardly anything if you let the seed drop and hope for the best. Jonquils -- as in a true Narcissus jonquilla, would be a good candidate for self sowing, but it would take 500 bulbs for a show because the flowers, though gorgeous golden yellow, usually 2 to a stem and FRAGRANT as all get out, are actually only about one inch in diameter. You can buy them very cheaply from Brent & Becky's Bulbs or anywhere...they grow wild (on the sides of the road) in Arkansas and Louisiana, but were brought by the French settlers. (Not endemic) They are also really easy to plant because they are so small :))
Now to cheat -- Order your bulbs -- the ones you like from the catalog -- and get a mix of yellow and white perianths (Petals & sepals collectively are called the perianth). Stay away from the new "orange" perianths; they will definitely not go the distance and tend to peter out over time. Watch for a color called "lemon" and decide if you want it with the golden perianths or not. It clashes, but with a riot of color it doesn't really matter.
Plant three bulbs in a single hole 18" in diameter and 8" deep. The bulbs go 6” or 7"deep, the extra inch you dug is so the roots have somewhere nice and soft to go right out of the bulb. To achieve a look that is less static, some bulbs will be planted 2 to a 12" hole or 1 bulb to an 8" hole. The depth stays the same.
If you order Dutch bulbs, they will be double nosed, so have each part of the bulb facing away from bulb in the same hole. That is so hard to explain, but each bulb will in crease in the direction it is going -- so point them all away from each other so they have room to increase. You dig an 18 inch diameter hole and put those three bulbs in. Leave a lot of room around the edges -- keep the bulbs together in the center of the circle. The big hole is just to loosen the soil so they can increase out. The following year and also subsequent years, you will have quite a show. Most catalog places have you order 10 bulbs of a kind. To get a great look you'd need at least 10 kinds, but maybe 12 kinds....120 bulbs.
Sooooo, here's another idea. If you live near Knoxville or Nashville, find the local daffodil societies. Go to the shows and pick out some bulbs you like. Ask when they have their sale. Ask them if they have trades. You don't have to buy 10 daffodils -- you can get 5 for free, and a kind you would never see in a catalog! To find the shows, go to www.daffodilusa.org and look for local societies or something close. I know the Nashville show is by Vanderbilt and the Knoxville Show is near UT - if not on the campus.
This tip is for anybody reading this -- just go to the website and see if there is a show within driving distance. Some shows are manned the whole time (2-days) with members taking shifts & answering questions, and some shows aren't. They are always manned right after judging ends (the exhibitors want to see what they won and then stay and chat.)
I realize after all this that I didn't answer your question, precisely. Yes you'll have to go out and dig, but 2 people make the job go a lot faster -- one person stands up and digs the holes, one person drags the box of bulbs and crawls along placing the bulbs. Do yourself a favor and write out a LOT of plastic tags -- 1 tag per hole -- with the name of the variety of daffodil. Just plant it with the bulbs. It will show bright white when the bulbs get dug -- even 10 or 15 and 20 years later. (And I assume 25-30, I just am not there yet...almost but not quite.)
Suzy
OMG, Suzy - thank you for writing all of that out!!! I appreciate you putting so much time and thought into the answer! I was expecting - "Yeah, get yer lazy butt out there", lol!
Okay, I'm printing this out so I know the *right* way to do Daff drifts - thank you so much again!
Sheryl
That was really interesting and helpful. Thanks, ladies.
Illoquin, perhaps you can set me straight on a problem I'm having with some Tahiti daffodils that I planted over three years ago. They are planted on the North side of my house and do get afternoon sun. We have heavy clay soil which I have amended with a LOT of composted leaf mould.
The first Spring, they bloomed beautifully, but the past two seasons I've had very few blooms. Season two looked like it was going well, but the buds (probably the wrong jargon) turned brown and crispy and did not open. I then did some reading and guesstimated that my problems were either due to lack of enough fertilizer OR lack of sunlight, or both. Determined to resolve the problem, I was extra careful to feed with bulb food a few times, including just as the foliage began poking out of the soil last year. Once again, they pooped out and didn't bloom except for a random few.
I cannot imagine that the problem is overcrowding since they hadn't been in the ground for very long when the problems began(?)... Any thoughts?
Horse manure is not plant food.
See... you *don't* heart me. I knew it!
Tahiti is a double daffodil and double daffodils have a tendency to "blast" -- exactly as you described when the bud never turns iunto a flower. If it's a wet spring the bud might get all soft and rotty and if it's drier or sunnier they might turn brown and crispy, but either way the term is "blast".
Of all the doubles there are in commerce, Tahiti is actually one that doesn't usually blast.. Go to that same website as above www.daffodilusa.org and see if the picture they have in Daffseek is what your flower looked like. It is actually a sort of pale lemon perianth with some orange petaloids snugged inside the middle petals.
Assuming we're talking about the same flower, I ought to tell you the jury is still out on what causes blasting. One school says it's a sudden cold snap when the bud is developing, and another school of thought is a lack of water when the bud is developing, and yet anoher school says it's HOT weather when the bud is developing. If these are on the north side of your house -- it probabaly wouldn't be heat but it could be lack of water (you need to keep an "eye on the sky" when the daffodils are up 5" - through bloom). Do you remember if there were sudden cold snaps and freezes in the low-mid 20s at the wrong time?
The DC beltway has one of the most famous Daffodil Societies in the Country and they all can grow great show quality Tahiti flowers year in and year out with very little to no blasting. They all water religiously if the sky doesn't provide, so that's why my guess is leaning that way.
Suzy
Oh, thank you so much. Yes, we're talking about the same 'tahiti' - I fell in love with them when I worked at a nursery years ago, so that's why I chose them. However, I've been trying to remember where I purchased mine from, but simply cannot be sure. I think that they came from a reputable local nursery(?).
Same goes for the weather details over the past couple of years. I don't remember... now that I know what to look for, I'll keep an eye on things. One thing I'm certain of at least, is that March '06 was VERY DRY and windy, too. I do recall watering the nearby shrubs last March, but I'd be willing to bet that I didn't give much thought to the daffy dillz. (shame on me)
As for this year, Jan. & Feb. were colder than usual, then the temp's hit the mid-70's last week followed by a big front which came through on Thursday giving us 36 hrs of rain ... and last night it dropped below freezing, which is where things stand right now. Oi vei. I'd say that the daff's are up about 5" right now. I'll keep a close eye on them. This is another example of why I should keep a garden diary, but I'm not very good about that - yet.
Thanks again for the detailed explanations!
Suzy, you posted a treasure trove of information, there! Thank you!!
I love to plant in groups of 3... too bad bulbs seem to come in multiples of 5 or 10! But I imagine I could dig a bigger hole (nearly 2 ft. in diameter?) and plant 5 bulbs, arranged like the dots on a "5" end of a domino. Or take 10 bulbs, do 3 groups of 3, and randomly put the 10th bulb somewhere else.
In the daff/daylily bed I've been working on, I spaced the bulbs fairly evenly... but that's OK, because I want the whole bed to fill in. I've got yellow daffs (earlier jonquils and later 'Yellow Cheerfulness') in the back part, white daffs (earlier 'King Alfred' and later 'Geranium') in the front half, and a curved "river" of Muscari latifolium separating the two.... it's not as formal as it sounds, as there are also scattered crocus varieties and some other bulbs planted at either end ... I'm not sure it's exactly "cottage-y," but the curved outline keeps it informal (it's sort of a kidney shape connecting the area under 3 trees in the yard). I had some early mini dutch iris blooms out there, but they are now under 6 inches of snow!
Critterologist: Jeez, you guys got 6 inches last night? We only received about 1/2" of sleet. Your bulb bed sounds really pretty. Please post pic's once it *Pops*. I have the same problem with bulb #'s - I usually end up trying to get enough bags to allow me to plant in groups of 3 or 5 (it's the old hot dog vs bun dilemma)...
I do so ~heart~ you, you're being ridiculous. I was merely pointing out....
I'm having trouble understanding the dilemma of the three-five. You have six bulbs, you plant two in three groups. You have 4, two in one group, singles in two. What problem?
Stop showing off your dominant math skillz again. You're *always* doing that to me.
No, it's just that "RULE" (haha, gardening by Rules????) that says Thou Must Plant in 3's (or at least in odd numbers)...
Oh yeah, I got the "odd" rule in school. Right, so group them in bunches till you get three, no problem.
Okay, it's not nice to make fun of my awful math skills! Meanie! *You* don't ~heart~ *me*!!!
OK reading you made me laugh ,.Question ?? If you plant 3 and they divide/double don't you end up with an even number?
See, Wrightie, Gardengus *totally* has it. See?
Yeah, well, Critterologist totally getz it. I think I ~heart~ her ( and/or him).
GG, Stop trying to trick me with your clever conundrums. The main thing to remember here is that you *must* *not* break the rules.
Try not to worry, Pagan, I will find a way to show you that we are still BFF (even though you ganged up on me in this public forum).
LOL, wrightie, you're the best!
Hooray!
I think it's just that a clump of plants (or bulbs) that starts out as an odd number seems to look more natural as it grows and increases... 4 bulbs planted in a square may look a little odd, unless you're going for a checkerboard look.
Everybody makes up their own rules in gardening anyway! :-)
(and I'm a "her," since you were wondering)
Speaking of square, Critter. ...you're going to have a big square if you plant your 5 in the dice pattern. A fairly unattractive clump of daffodils, not that daffodils could ever be called homely, but I have a better way......
Take those 5 bulbs in the 2'0 diam hole and put them as close as you can get them together and still keep them 3-4 inches apart. You should have a lot of room around the edges and that's good. The bulbs will be going every which way -- they will all be going different directions in the hole. It is better looking to have a smaller, fuller clump that *comes from the same exact point in the earth* (or nearly) to more closely mimic a real clump that has grown over time which is the object of the game.
Does that make sense?
Oh, and if by chance anybody reading this *ever* gets a flower blooming that is different from others in the hole, transplant it while in bloom because it will never look right, and people like me will laugh at your horribly bad taste and lack of horticultural discernment. ;)
Suzy
LOL.... not to worry, my clumps never come out square! My "dice pattern" just means one in the middle and the others around it... I skew the outer ones so they form a more oval sort of shape... I'm not explaining it very well, but you're right, the 5 side of the die was not a good analogy!
You're right about taking care of "odd" ones... I'm still "weeding out" some wrong-color species tulips along the side bed... this year, I will pull them while they're in bloom rather than thinking I can mark or remember their location!
bump
Wrightie, am I supposed to be doing something with this thread? Why'd ya bump it up?
Plant those daffs in a W shape -- and if you have more just keep going WWW. If you have MORE of the same kind, start makig it football shaped.
WWW
WWWWW
WWW
Suzy
Yes, File It! LOL
I bumped it so that I could remind myself to water my dumb Tahitis if they need it and to see if they BEHAVE for me this year. They ~hate~ me.
So when are you supposed to water the daffs? They are supposed to be dry in the summer, yes?
Hi Happy!
How much rain did you get in January in terms of inches? How well are you on track for Feb? You live in a premier daffodil growing area, that in a normal year gets the right amount of precipitation, but you have to pay attention to the weather report.
Assuming you are on track for a normal year, start looking at them when the foliage emerges about 2", then really look to the skies for that inch of water per week. The biggest problem in your area is the hot sunny and windy days, and that's when more water is required. I already know it's cold there, and 75 - 80 degrees is a long way away, but that's what determines the amount of water.
Ok -- I had no idea! Thank you (as always) Illoquin. We've been fairly rainy this winter, so we should be on course. But then when do I have to worry about not overwatering them? After they bloom? Or not until the foliage dies?
After the foliage dies -- that's called senescence. A lot of plants senesce, but the term is usually used for spring flowering bulbs whose foliage dies (senesces). Spring wildflowers are usually called "ephemeral", yet their foliage senesces, too.
http://davesgarden.com/guides/terms/go/3310.html
Sorry. You stop watering when the foliage dies down. But usually you will have a moist enough spring that watering is unecessary except a couple of times when it's hot and windy.
Suzy
Thanks!
Oh man! I LOVE daffodils. :-) Illoquin, you wear many hats!
>grin<
I had forgotten about this thread....
What I'm reading btwn your lines, PC, is that you DO ~heart~ me!!!
BFF, toots.
I just ran across this thread and had to ask... have any of you ever been to Sutter Creek CA? Daffodil Hill? Gorgeous. Just a Heavenly place on Earth. Thanks for your valuable comments Illoquin!
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:5BDaCft7_xEJ:www.amadorcountychamber.com/Daffodil%2520Hill.htm+sutter+hill+daffodils&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
(I hope this link translates to DG site :-))
Susie
No, but now I must go look!
My first big WOW moment regarding daffydillz was when I saw them blooming in a park in Edinburgh, Scotland. If I can dig up a pic', I'll come back and post it here.
Funny - mine was in Britain - cool, blustery day with nothing but these huge blooms, blowing in the wind ....
EXACTLY ... same for me ... they were planted in these massive sweeping waves beneath a bunch of trees ... utterly breathtaking
Yes, I've heard of it but never been there....didn't the California wild fires run over the ranch about 8 years ago, but the daffodils were fine?
Suzy
I haven't been to Daffodil Hill for about 12 years but if these pics are true (2007) it looks fine now... I hadn't heard the wildfires ran through that specific area.
I've visited about a dozen times since 1968.... beautiful.
http://amadorable.com/daffodil-hill-2007
Mmm - mine was a small town with little gray stone houses - I wanna say near Cheddar...?