Hi,
Today was the first time I could get a good look at the pond with the ice melting quite a bit. I was quite shocked to see my three year old koi floating just under the ice. Don't know for certain yet, but it looks like all 13 are dead. What a bummer. They were in the 15 inch range. They had survived colder overall winters when they were younger. All I can think ok was the freaky winter - warm until mid-January and then frigid temps that kept the pond frozen until now. I have a de-icer that is working and protected them the past few years. Any ideas?? Thanks.
Victor
They're all gone!
Wow Victor, that's horrible! I have no idea what might have happened.
That's awful! Really, I wish I had an idea but I don't. Do you have a local pond store that also sells koi? Try giving them a call and see if they have heard of this from other pond owners or if it's an isolated incident. If it's weather related then others around you might have the same situation. Have you tested the water for a Ph crash or lack of oxygen? These are unlikley, but gosh at least you would rule them out. I suggest testing the water for anything you can. If it is a water conditon you don't want to put in new fish without correcting the problem. I'm assuming the deicer never quit keeping a hole open. If you have a lot of pond surface area I have heard that you should keep more than one hole open. For a 15 X 25 pond I keep two holes open and a spare deicer ready to go in case one fails. I'm also assuming you don't let debris accumulate on the pond bottom that produce fatal gasses. I counted fins yesterday and so far my koi are all accounted for and look surprisingly plump. I've only got 8, but a couple are 24". Big bruisers. Oh man, I can't tell you how sorry I am. If you figure this out please, please post.
Mary
Thanks. I haven't tested the water since things are pretty static during the winter months. The heater was / is still functioning and always did the job in the past. I do my best to keep debris out - have a skimmer, use a net in the Fall, etc. I'm perplexed. They were active in January, before the big freeze. When the ice melts completely I'll know the complete count but I saw no movement through the ice at all. Thanks again. I'll update.
Victor
This is a major mystery. It looks like you do everything exactly right.
This message was edited Mar 14, 2007 8:58 PM
Hi, victorgardener - how awful for you! And such a mystery, too - like snappel says, it sounds like you were doing everything possible, and they were all healthy going into the winter? I only have 8 koi, the largest being about a foot, and they have all survived and are getting quite perky. I did add a second heater last winter (again, snapple's advice, what would I do without you?) since mine is 18' feet in diameter, but other than a build up of the gases under the ice, I can't think what might have happened. Let us know how the water tests - maybe there is an answer there - my condolences! Dax
Sorry for your loss, Victor. I know how hard it is when you've had the fish for years and watched them grow :~( I have no thoughts as to why this happened. Sounds like you did everything you could to prevent it.
Lana
There is a thread over on GW about unexplained koi losses in Zone 6 you might want to look at. No real Ah Hah!, but some ideas about ammonia levels. Enough concern to send me out to the pond with a test kit.
Mary
Thanks all! Appreciate the kind words and the suggestions.
Victor
Hate to hear that.
Also I would recommend taking a volt tester to your pond with the heater pugged in. I have heard of people losing a whole tank of fish to find out their heater was shorting out.
Check to see if their is a pond club in the area as well. If other ponders had simular problems, then it could have been that cold snap.
Jason
Stray voltage! Hadn't thought of that. I have known it to take out a tank of tropical fish.
The heater is on a GFI circuit and appears to be working fine. If current was leaking into the water it would trip the breaker.
Not always at low voltage I have stuck my hand in a tank with a bad heater where I got a shock just like you would with static electricity. Spent all day trying to figure out what was wrong with this persons tank with my hands in the tank. I made a comment about the static electricity in his house, and he said that just started recently and only when he touched the tank. It dawned on me the problem, unplugged the heater, and the shocking stopped.
He has a saltwater tank, and had a GFI plug on it.
Jason
Thanks Jason. I use the thermo-pond heater and to the best of my knowledge, it is a full-voltage heater - no transformer. I'm guessing the heater you're referring to was a transformer coupled low-voltage heater, correct? A current leak on the low voltage side would probably not trip the GFI since it is isolated from it through the transformer.
The hole is one foot in diameter.
I'm sorry for the loss. How large of a hole did you have in the ice? I'm thinking there wasn't enough oxygen in the pond to support larger koi.
My sympathies, too. I know how I felt when the heron moved into our neigborhood a few years ago and snatched out my babies! I will be looking back, also, to see the answer as it unfolds. The only thing I could think of was the exchange of gases through the size of the hole...I'm stumped.
How deep is your pond?
Any rotting plant material in the pond?
Did you experience any power outages during the ice?
Did you have any storms where a lightning strike could have hit your pond? I 've heard of that killing peoples koi.
Do you have a pump running in the pond also?
Did you add any new koi this year?
Let us know if you figure it out.
Victor, we've had the same thing happen twice early in the spring when we've had very warm weather followed by a very cold snap and then warm weather again. I don't mean our usual Virginia springs but extremes in the winter from very warm to very cold. We never could figure out what caused the fish to die. Pond conditions were fine and we had a floating heater running all winter so they didn't suffocate.
Although we had that kind of weather this year, so far the fish all seem to be okay. Fingers crossed.
One more thought. I had thought maybe there was some kind of runoff going into the pond from snow melt or rains but if your pond is still frozen I guess that theory is out.
This message was edited Mar 26, 2007 12:40 AM
Thanks Deb and hart. Deb - 3 feet, and no to every other question. And I have not figured it out. Took out all the dead fish the other day, once all the ice was gone. Thanks to all and good luck with your fish.
Victor
Victor:
Sorry if this is a repeat question,but did you take the water to a nursery to test the water? Even if you have home test kits, I would recommend to have them test it and see what they get for pH and nitrates, etc. Just another piece to rule out for you. Hope this is not being redundant.
Another thing I just thought of...no one has tried hand chipping at the ice this winter at any time? The force of a hit on the ice can carry through the water and harm the fish...just another thought.
I am still waiting and thinking...I want to see if there is an answer on this for you.
It must have been a sad day for you to remove your fish...My condolences.
I can tell you it wasn't stray voltage that killed my fish. The water had been thawed for quite a while and the heater turned off, in one instance for at least a couple of weeks. More koi were brought in immediately after and were fine for years so it obviously wasn't anything in the water unless it was something that managed to remove itself. It also had no effect on small baby koi, only the adults.
I really think it had something to do with the stress of the drastic weather changes.
Victor, I switched from koi to comets and shubunkins after the last instance, except for one baby koi that survived the last kill off. As I said, we've had the same kind of weather this year and so far the fish all seem to be fine.
Thanks. No, I have not had the water tested. Maybe now that it's finally thawed I might. There was no chipping at the ice - I know that is very dangerous. No problem being redundant - I appreciate the concern.
hart, I will probably switch as well. The koi really do a number on the plants. And even the smaller stones!
Thanks again for your encouragement and kind words. I appreciate it.
Regards,
Victor
That's been another plus from the switch to goldfish. However, I do still have one koi in there and so what I did last year was top the basket with stones. Then I bought some fairly thin wire and wove it back and forth across the planting basket, then back and forth in the opposite direction. That completely foiled any rooting by hungry koi. Just make sure you get wire that won't rust.
I found a sure solution to keep even the largest koi ( I have a couple 24" ) from rooting in the pots of lillies and lotus. Drill three or four small holes in the lips or rims of the pots. Get some green plastic mesh garden fencing with large holes. Locally Menards carries a product with 1" mesh holes. Cut a piece of the fencing large enough to cover the pot and fasten over the top of the pot with plastic wire ties in the predrilled holes. Lilly and lotus stems easily grow and find their way up through the mesh. The koi stay out. The green color is unobtrusive underwater and the plastic doesn't corrode. In some of the largest lotus tubs I do still have some rocks for weight. The weight is needed during spawning when the biggest koi really throw themselves around. Now, if only I could figure out a way to have water hyacinth. I doubt if that will ever happen. Koi just chew them up. But, using the fencing has allowed to lillies and lotus to grow just fine.
Hi Snapple,
Wonderful way to keep lil Koi out of containers! I already made the mistake,(first time lotus grower), put lotus in HUGE empty tree pot, WITH RATHER LARGE DRAINAGE HOLES IN BOTTOM! Before you could say henry houdini, out came those gargantuan arms of the lotus sprawling, yep you guessed it, right to the hard as a rock, CLAY, and they buried themselves down ro CHINA, LOLOL
