Hey all! I just moved into a new house (new to me, anything but new in reality!). I'm on a .16 acre lot with a long backyard that features a vegetable garden and a lot of grass. My backyard is completely fenced. I was looking into what kind of coop I'd need and found these: http://www.henspa.focuspage.com/henhaven.htm which seemed like a neat idea for keeping the coop clean and ensuring the chickens had clean grass to hang out on every day (since it's mobile). I wouldn't want to keep them in that little pen area all the time because I'm home during the day and there's not reason they couldn't be out and about in the yard. My main reason for wanting to keep chickens is for the eggs, though if I could find a local butcher, I would consider raising them for meat as well (though I don't think I really have room to "raise chickens" per se). Anyway, I was thinking 3-5 chickens would be the very most I'd want, and I'd be doing it to avoid contributing to the chicken factories that mistreat their animals. I'm very focused lately on where my food comes from, and I want to feed my family the most healthy, natural, humanely grown food I can manage. Anyway, I don't know the first thing about chickens. I don't have a huge amount of money to build or buy an enormous coop. At first, I was thinking I'd start with 2 or three chickens and buy a http://www.henspa.focuspage.com/Henhut.htm . I'd want to buy organic feed, but also allow them to eat bugs and whatever else in my yard all day as they pleased. I have to call on Monday to see what my city's ordinances are regarding chickens. Do I need to have a rooster if I want eggs? I'm concerned about the noise of a rooster as far as my neighbors are concerned. I have a baby and one on the way, so waking up early for me personally isn't the issue! I know I'm rambling, but I don't know what kind of chickens to get, where to get them from, do I buy eggs, chicks or chickens, etc. I just need some advice, and you guys seem to always have that in droves! Thanks so much for your help!
Considering chickens
Well, I would look around the forum. We've talked a lot about starting with chickens in various threads. Also, you can get raising chicken books and/or look online. there is a ton of info out there.
First of all, hens lay eggs regardless of whether there is a roo. They do it about every 25 hours. so every few days they may take a day off.
chickens poop a lot. so if you have a very small yard, just be aware of it. It doesnt bother me, per se, since it is mostly grain and I have nice grass, but if my yard was as tiny as yours, I would want to keep that in mind when I thought about where they will live.
chickens are easy to care for. They need water and food at all times. they need somewhere that is not drafty to live. they need other chickens to be happy (3-5 sounds like a good number),.
the henspas are pretty cool. if you aren't handy, or you just want something slick looking, that is a pretty cool coop. But you can make a coop or a chicken tractor ( as the little movable coops are known) for less $$ than that. Overall, chickens can be a very cheap investment.
good luck!
Thanks! I have been cruising the threads and reading like a maniac. Do you think that even if they were in a tractor that moving them daily would result in too much manure on the lawn (as in will it make it filthy for my kids if they want to play out there?) Will three chickens cause that much waste? Also, I don't know where to go to try and buy chickens since Utah law looks like it's pretty stringent about what can be brought in and most of the online companies have large minimum shipments. I've tried finding info online for local sources, and have come up short. Do you think an immobile shelter would be better, and if so, what's the best way to set it up for easy cleaning. I'll keep researching, and I appreciate your help!
No chicken coop, house, or pen, or any other structure used for any containment of fowl,
including pigeons, except for household pets, shall be kept or maintained closer than 100 feet from
the door or window of any dwelling other than the dwelling of the person keeping or having the
same.
This is what my city ordinance says. I assume this means that if you are within the city limits, raising chickens is okay so long as you follow the rules. Unless of course three chickens could be considered pets since I'm not planning on raising them for meat, only eggs. This is going to be interesting to see if I have parts of my yard that are 100 ft from my neighbor's homes. I think the back half of my yard would, but again, it would kind of mess up my mobile chicken tractor idea of hitting the whole yard. I'm going to have to get out there with a measuring tape!
Good idea to check your local ordinances. You may also want to check out the poultry section at the following sites:
www.homesteadingtoday.com
www.backyardchickens.com
Good luck with your project.
Linda
Thanks for the links - I"d seen the second, but not the first! Okay, I believe having the chickens won't be a problem. I think I can find and construct plans for a suitable tractor coop for three chickens. I even found someplace to buy them (IFA Country Stores - is this an okay source?). Now my main and only concern is: Will they render my yard unusable for the rest of my family. If I move them daily to a new patch of grass, will the patch I leave behind be totally coated in manure, or is a day's worth not that big of a deal? If this is my concern, would a more permanent structure be a wiser way to go (until someday when I own a respectable amount of land?) If I can find my camera today, I'll take some shots of my backyard so you can see what I'm working with. Gotta love moving - you can't find squat for weeks!
A handfull of chickens are not going to produce that much manure in a day. I have 100 hens in a 1/4 acre fenced in area and they have completely killed all the grass and produce a mountain of manure every two weeks in the hen house. I would not allow my children to playin such an area.
When I first started with hens , I bought 15 pullets and let them roam our property. Of Course they decided that they preferred to roost on the front porch instead of the hen house. The previous occupents had left an old upright piano on the front porch which the hens "played" everytime they went to perch on the porch. Later we had a rooster who also spent the night on the porch and crowed every time a car went down the road at 2 am. We decided to fence the poultry in after a fox feasted on some of the nicer hens.Then there is the problem of neighborhood dogs attacking and killing hens
LInda
I talked to my town's animal control officer this morning and she said there is no allowance for chickens on non "animal rights" properties in residential areas. She said you can't have a pet chicken because they aren't considered pets, they are livestock. I'm so bummed, because I spent all week researching to ensure I was doing the right thing for the town, the chickens, my neighbors, etc. Shut down in 3 seconds flat. So I have to wait 12 years until my son graduates and I can move to my dream hobby farm somewhere in Missouri or Arkansas. Until then, I'm moseying back over the the garden district of DG! Thanks for all your help.
Sorry mevnmart. But rules can be changed in a reasonable way. Washington state has had a huge movement resulting in city ordinances being changed to allow chickens. Sometimes a local paper can help by publishing a letter to the editor, etc. After all, are a few hens louder than the neighborhood dog that barks half the day? Don't think so! (Okay, roosters are noisy.) This site is helpful:
http://home.centurytel.net/thecitychicken/index.html
Been there done that - exactly,.......went online - need permit certain regulations (like you said x amount of feet from neighbor), talked to animal control same as you - no no/ livestock, but check this out http://www.wasatchgardens.org/workshopschedule.html check out July's events
Not sure why they would advertise something that is not generally legal through out Utah, I am in Murray maybe if we both contact them we could convince them that they should list the cities where this is allowed, I mean why waste someones time with this workshop if they legally can not do it in their area.
Edited apparently my hyperlink did work. I just emailed wasatch gardens & cc'd my mayor if you want I can dmail you what I wrote. ....
This message was edited Mar 14, 2007 1:30 PM
I agree, MQN, that makes no sense. I'm really irritated by it. I like the letter to the editor idea. I'll compose something, post it here and let you know how it goes. Thanks for the links and the sympathy.
I wrote to the folks running the workshop:
Dear sir or madam:
Recently, I became interested in raising chickens in my backyard. I live in Springville, Utah, and although the municipal codes seemed to allow backyard coops (within guidlines) the animal control officer I spoke with told me I could not raise chickens in my yard because I'm in a residential area and do not have animal rights on my property. I wanted to have 2-3 hens exclusively for egg laying purposes with no intent to breed them. I would think that a roosterless coop would be prefereable to a noisy dog or other "accepted" pet. I was directed to your workshop by a Murray, UT resident who also had animal control tell them the same thing. It might be beneficial to include in the workshop listing which parts of Utah allow or don't allow urban chickens so that folks don't waste their time getting excited about raising them only to find out they can't. If you have any suggestions for me, I would appreciate it, since I was only looking to organically fertilize my yard (with a tractor coop) and provide my family with a sustainable egg supply. Thank you for your time.
Respectfully,
Eileen - -----------------
Springville, Utah
The wrote back the following:
Dear Eileen and Nadine, (I have no idea who Nadine is)
I'm sorry that you have encountered difficulties in your quest to acquire
chickens. We are not the expert on chickens, and that is why we have
guest presenters talk about urban chickens in the workshops that we hold.
This year, we will have a guest presenter that will talk about the legal
issues involved. If you are interested in learning more about this issue,
you can attend the workshop this year.
PS- we have also been very impressed by the chicken eggloos. In fact, one
of our staff members will probably get one and some chickens here in Salt
Lake City.
Best of Luck,
Sarah Liljefelt
Wasatch Community Gardens
Community Programs Assistant
office:(801)359-2658
cell:(415)948-5329
admin@wasatchgardens.org
So not a lot of help there, but I am planning to write both the Daily and Springville Herald and see if they'll post my letter. Gotta start somewhere. In the meantime, I found a guy in town who works with my ex who said he has naturally raised (not organic, I don't think) free range eggs to sell me weekly, so at least I won't have to drive 20 minutes for that.
Hi Eileen, I am Nadine I got the same email and I wondered the same thing............... who's Eileen lol, I also send an email.....and I also found some free range eggs on an ongoing basis - so are we leading parallel lives? Or is it more like great minds think a like and simple seldom differ............. I cc'd my email to my mayor, have not heard back yet.
Oh and I am the one that brought up eglu here is my email.............
Subject line: Urban Chickens & tour de coops - workshops scheduled to run in July
From the research I had done the net, I thought I could keep 3-4 in Murray, but when I talked to animal control they said it was a no, no and that if my neighbors complained I would have to get rid of them. I have been checking into chickens for a while now, even had an order in to buy an eglu online. I was almost out a substantial amount of money, those cute looking eglu are not by any means cheap (they look like an imac & priced about the same).
Was really disappointed, the landscaping benefits (chicken eat scraps I would normally send to the compost pile and output even faster composting material) + the fresh eggs + the benefits of being more self sustaining + not depending on a trucked in lower quality product.
Wasatch Gardens: I think that you would have a lot more interest in these programs and have way more positive results if you posted what cities/counties allow chickens in the backyard community. I mean why get people all geared up and then have them be disappointed that due to zoning laws they are not allowed?
Mr. Snarr – why not allow? I am not talking free ranging chickens I am talking about properly contained, protected. And, yes I own my property, so no landlord say so is needed. You really should google eglu’s you may find you catch the bug – just as easy as keeping a cat or dog, in fact easier.
Thank you for your attention to this matter, I appreciate you consideration to my request.
& I signed with my full name and address. Should have typed Mayor Snarr not Mr. but other then that............
You two should get the bumper sticker I have:
.. Wherever chickens are outlawed
only outlaws will keep chickens.
That's cute. I still haven't written to the mayor/paper. I'm doing it this weekend.
http://www.chickenvideo.com/buybumpersticker.html
crossed fingers...
I wrote the mayor today. We'll see what he says!:
Dear Mayor Mangum:
I am writing because I recently purchased a home on Center street in Springville with a beautiful yard and accompanying vegetable garden. In an effort to provide my family with sustainable, homegrown, organic food, I will be taking full advantage of the marvelous soil our area has to offer. This comes as a huge joy after living in arid, dusty Arizona for 13 years. In addition to vegetable gardening, I wanted to purchase 2-3 egg-laying hens to keep in a mobile chicken coop (mobile in that it would be moved 8 ft daily to avoid a smelly mess in one location and to provide organic fertilizer for my yard, and in the fall, my garden. They would not be bred, in fact, I planned to buy only hens and no rooster (as they can disturb neighbors) and intended to keep them as pets - not for meat consumption. I looked up the municipal code, which is under Title 3, and it says:
(3) No chicken coop, house, or pen, or any other structure used for any containment of fowl, including pigeons, except for household pets, shall be kept or maintained closer than 100 feet from the door or window of any dwelling other than the dwelling of the person keeping or having the same.
(1979 Code 3-7-115; adopted by Ordinance No. 4-88; amended by Ord. No. 9-98)
My yard is deep enough that if they are kept predominantly at the back of my yard, they would be 100 ft. from my neighbor's doors and windows. After several weeks of research into what types of hens I would buy and what type of coop would be the best choice, etc., I called Animal Control to verify that I'd read the municipal code correctly. The officer I spoke with told me that because my property was not pre-designated as having "animal rights", I could not keep chickens at all. She said they could not be condisered pets, as they are livestock.
I am frustrated because I endeavored to ensure that everything I'd planned was in line with the municipal code, and that it would be considerate of my neighbors and contribute positively to my family's health and well-being. I am a police officer's daughter, and so I will not willfully break the law by clandestinely keeping chickens. I would, however, like to appeal to the city of Springville to ammend the municipal code. A handful of chickens are far less of a noise concern than most of my neighbor's dogs or a squawking parrot, and kept responsibly, I imagine the neighbors wouldn't even know they were there. Urban Chicken farming is increasing in popularity, and as a citizen of Springville, I implore you to reconsider this code and allow for the keeping of chickens as pets (not including roosters or chickens raised for meat) within city limits.
Thank you for your time and condideration of my request.
Respectfully,
Eileen ------------------------
Go Eileen!
I talked to another animal control officer and she said that IF my neighbors complained I would have to get rid of them, basically have the same thoughts on this as you................ Why? If they are noisy - that's a noise ordinance violation, if I had messy stinky coop that's a sanitation violation, I understand that but like you said worst case scenario less of a problem then dog barking all night long.
The neighbors I have now are not the types to complain, my concern is if a dog gets into my yard and causes severe damage to my eglu (not a cheap item) and I try to recoup my loses, they can complain and force to me to get rid of them when its really them at fault for the situation, for allowing their dog to be at large - in other words - neighbor wars - who needs that......
Have yet to hear from my mayor. I am hoping for the best, I just went to pick up an item (film & chemistry - I work in the printing industry) that is a block or so down from the IFA (Intermountain Farmes Association) and they had outside a "feral" chicken - must of got loose apparently been there for a few years totally self sufficient. They said that the only time she was noisy was when people tried to catch her, any how pretty cool to see, thought at first I was seeing things - too much chicken on the brain.......
You HAVE to post when you hear from the mayor. I'll give him two weeks to reply on my end, then I'll write again. I have no grand hopes that they'll change anything, but I figure I'm not going to just throw in the towel without a fight. LOL Good luck to you! I've been staying away from IFA just so I don't have to see ANY chickens. I'm getting eggs today from a guy that works with my ex, so at least I have that avenue for eggs in the meantime.
The second time you write, cc the local paper and maybe another department of the city gov't. It's a shame, but this sort of accountability can be helpful in getting action.
MQN, I would also be concerned about dogs. I'm not sure an eglu could withstand that sort of attack. They're cute, though! We horse-fenced our yard and then stapled garden wire onto it so no dog could get in. (Our own German Shepherd has had hens actually perch on him, so he's not a problem.)
Unless it's an extremely, extremely slow news day, the local paper isn't going to do anything. You'd be better off to write a letter to the editor. But then, from my days in newspapers, I can just about guarantee you'll draw some people who think keeping chickens in town under any circumstances is the worst idea ever.
What I'd do instead is contact, by phone, your town or city councilmen, especially if one of them specifically represents your neighborhood.
It will really help if you can find other people who share your concern who will also contact the council members and mayor.
BTW, you should have asked that animal control person to give you the specific code section on the animal rights code. It's entirely possible it doesn't exist. I know municipal codes aren't always neatly categorized, but often anything having to do with, say, keeping chickens, would be in the same code section.
Zeppy - your right, that why I have been continuing to research. But I also know the 3-4 dogs in the neighborhood that occasionally get loose. I was planning on keeping a majority of it "painted" with Dave's Insanity Sauce (reapplied after rainstorms) for the first few monthes so they get used to it being a no no - my backyard is only partially (3/4 fenced) but it is only 4' any dog could easily jump - if they are of any size at all (planning on having the rest finished in a bit or failing that putting the eglu in a "portable" dog run).
The old adage - good fences make for good neighbors - comes to mind. Now that you have me thinking about it the dog run seems like a better alternative due to its height but dogs can dig - how much $ do I have to spend to keep their dogs out of my yard? I guess thats why I am so concerned about ordinances..........
This message was edited Mar 19, 2007 4:31 PM
Well, every day is a slow news day at the Springville Herald! I would definitely have written a letter to the editor, but certainly, there are those who would complain even when they have no clue what they're talking about. I dont' want to rile up the nay-sayers! I don't know of anyone else in my area who cares about raising chickens. I think most folks do it on the sly. I've seen folks walking pet ducks and whatnot in town. If I don't hear from the mayor, I'll resend it to everyone on the council and then make some follow-up phone calls.
BTW, I looked at the eglu, and it's perfect! I wonder if there's a local retailer, because the shipping is a killer!
Eileen - alas no suppliers near by that I found, I was wondering if you had seen them, I saw you are planning to go with the henspa (@ beginning of post) then saw you were planning on moving it EVERY day (your letter post) and I thought - you have way more energy then I do. I even thought of trying to retrofit a dog igloo but i ma not talented like that and I love the easy of their design + predator proof. My Pet Chicken had them on sale for $495 + shipping (app. 670 total) - that does not include the chicks but we can get those local.............
Hi all,
I live in the burbs and a neighbor of mine found a loophole involving her keeping the chickens in their own separate space in her basement laundry room at night--they have access to this space during the day also, but tend to stay outside unless they need to lay. In this way she has her chickens categorized as "household pet"--because they are HOUSED IN HER HOME (though they have access to an outdoor run during the day), and she is untouchable by any law. However, she does have a lawyer on retainer and every time a neighbor complains, the lawyer deals with it and charges her! However, at this point the onus is on the complainer for harrassment, because she is free and clear to have household pets. Interesting, isn't it? I live close by and am trying my damnedest to do the same thing, but it isn't easy, and I think it's going to be expensive (the lawyer).
Laura, you and Zeppy are true enablers, no wonder I love Dave's.
Still no response from mayor, I have a freind that has a freind (you know how that goes) who know's him. Will have to approach.........
I am in the middle of spring cleaning getting rid of a lot of clutter, sorting it out for charities and freecycling once I am done and have my backyard looking decent again (when I first moved in I started to get rid of all the grass and putting in xericscape or edibles so it looks rather barren right now - last year I had 2 broken feet so not much got done & so its like starting all over again) will pursue more diligently. I will then have the room to house them in the house if need be. I know I will not abandon this project, I have had cats, dogs and birds in the past and now that I am empty nester its time for a new hobby.....
The state of my backyard is one of the reasons I wanted chickens I have been going with the lasagna & cover crop route and the lasagna seems to have alot slugs that eat my plants.................anyhow, thanks for all the encouragement.