Today my electricians installed a new power panel in my garage and we had to shut off the power to the pond. The fish immediately went into hiding as the water calmed down without the waterfalls running. I thought that this might be normal as they don't like change - like people. So they worked on the power and eventually told me to flip the breaker back on. As no water was coming out of the bios I went over to check if the pump was on. It was but the bios were almost empty and it took the pump some time to refill everything. This came as a shock to me as I'm trying to grow various marginals in the tanks and they were just about dried out from the sun. So how did these tanks empty themselves? The only hole is at the top were the waterfall forms.
The only thing I could figure is that the water tried to seek its own level and went back out via the normal input pipes at the bottom of the tanks. But then, what can I do about this? Should I have had check valves installed to prevent water from dropping out in a power failure situation? I mean this is potentially disastrous if the bio filters environment is so much at risk at a power failure which we have in the summer quite frequently. I'm also not here in the summer to monitor things day by day. Somebody else will look in but I can't have them there all the time?
So, all you folks have bios and they are obviously elevated over the normal waterlevel. How do you keep your water in there?
BTW - my fish seem to have adapted to the new pond. 4 koi died in the process and two are quite happy and swimming about. I also lost two comets (I think) but all of my fancy red-headed goldfisg are doing fine. I placed a circle made of irrigation pipe and anchored it with a stone into the pond and now throw some food in there. This way it doesn't get sucked into my skimmer and the fish have time to find the food before it's gone. It works just fine but I also note that fine plant life or green scum is forming inside the circle. I guess this is additional food for the fish?
Fred
PS my lilies are almost all grown up to the water level. The leaves are still small but they sure grew fast from the bottom up. How was I suposed to fertlize these plants?
Bio-filter problem
BTW these pipes come over the top of the tanks into the bottom. I still don't understand how these things became empty. See picture
Yes Fred, the water went back out thru the pump to seek it's own level like you said, you should put in a check valve if you don't want it to drain when the pump is off.
Sorry for your fish loss......it being a new pond I wonder if it was stocked too quickly? That wouldn't be a consideration if you seeded the filter, but if you didn't then that is a lot of fish in a brand new pond all at once :(
The fish aren't going to eat the stuff accumulating in your feeding ring, you can pick it up once in a while and move it so that stuff can go in the skimmer where it would have gone anyways.
Ferttilizing lilies......a lot of people use tomato spikes for their ease and formulation and their availablility, they do need to be replaced often though, lilies are heavy feeders. If you're not getting many blooms or start to notice less blooms......."feed me Seymour!"
Laguna pond fertilizer stakes work real well. The link is for info only. I have never used this vendor.
http://www.dga-online.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=1565
I've used those before for foliage/green plants and they worked great, it's not a good choice for lilies though, the middle # is 9....you want something with a high middle # for lilies.
Huh! Well I'll be darned. Before I buy fertilizer for the lillies this year I will definitely look for one with a better middle number.
LOL Those really are great spikes though! Nowadays I make fertilizer baggies for my lilies with a slow release fertilizer and pantyhose kneehi's, it doesn't last my whole season still though and if I want blooms still have to get in and throw some tomato spikes in. I ordered full season lily spikes from a company 2 years ago to try them.....so not worth the expense, they didn't last long or give me healthy plants.
Save yourself some money on a check valve. Drill a small hole in the pump line above water level in the Bio tank.
Make sure it is directed down towards the water as it will spurt water while the pump is running. Now with the pump off the hole will draw air and break the vacuum and it will not drain. Happened to me and I tried the check valve but it did not last due to material clogging it up.
azreno,
I don't understand your post about seeding my filters. How does one seed filters? I put 3/4 gallon of bacteria solution in there over a couple weeks time. Is that what you mean? I'l have to see what tomato spikes are and where to find them. How many per plant?
Also, you say: "Sorry for your fish loss......it being a new pond I wonder if it was stocked too quickly? That wouldn't be a consideration if you seeded the filter, but if you didn't then that is a lot of fish in a brand new pond all at once :( "
I really haven't stocked the pond. I only put a few fish in there to see what will happen. The koi cost me 8 bucks a piece. I bought 6 of them. The 4 which died obviously had problems with the change in environment. The pH is still high but the ones who survived were supposed to test the water for me before I buy any expensive fish. Now that some algae is forming and plants are growing, I think it may be time to try a few more fish. It's about a 10000 gal pond and there is room for more fish. Got some water hyacinths today,
Got the message about the feeding ring. Didn't know it already had a name. I thought I invented it. :-)
TA Rogers, thanks for the tip I'll give it a go.
Fred
Yes, that's seeding it :o) Sorry, didn't mean to upset you Fred- I did forget that your pond is very large.....it's difficult to remember everyone's pond size, from looking at the pic of your biofilter I certainly never would have thought it was feeding a 10k gal pond :(. You're right, that amount of fish in 10k gal is not a lot for an initial stocking whether it was seeded or not.
azreno,
I'm not upset. It takes a lot more to get me upset. :-) (actually I don't even know what I'm supposed to be upset about)
This morning the water hyacinths that I threw in the pond about midnight all straightened themselves out real nice and the fish were playing hide and seek in the roots. Looks good. But I still need the various plants to grow some more to look at home. The pond is still too sterile looking for me at this point. Plants and fish will change all that.
I have two 150 gallon bio-filters which should be more then enough to keep life in the pond.
I think I'll get a couple larger butterfly koi this weekend to see if they can handle the water.
Fred
PS I have company and we're on the go all day long. Yesterday we spend the afternoon at the Shark Valley National Park in the Everglades.
My appologies Fred........I clearly misinterpreted your tone.....I do have an abrupt way about me so I do on occassion offend without meaning to :o)
A large pond like that.....your going to need some large plants........papyrus, bull rush, soft rush, lance leafed arrowhead, and tropical thalia all might appeal to you and tall statement plants.
Did you find cool plants to bring home from the everglades? Sure would be fun to have places like that visit around here!
Well, I jumped the gun and didn't wait until the weekend to get some more fish. Still didn't buy any of the big and expensive koi. My they went up to almost $800 for foot long koi. You guys all have fortunes in your ponds. So, for safeties sake I bought 3 small butterflys (2-3") and 3 Shebunkens (3-4"). Of the latter I got the biggest in the tank and they are a good 4 inches long.
I let the water temp equalize and let them out. The koi immediately went into hiding. The shebunken went roaming around the place. Then the met th other fish and it was party time. They really raced all over the place as if to see what else was there. In the morning I threw some food into the ring and they acted as if they hadn't eaten in weeks. The other fish joined in the frenzy. They had never done that before. So fish learn from other fish how to do things. Amazing!
The whole pond is now different as the Shebunken have created a new rambunctious environment. They seem to never stop swimming about and the others try to keep up with them. Really neat. For a while there I was afraid I had serious problems with my high pH and alkalyne cement pond but it seems that the water has cured itself and the fish are happy with it. I think now I can add a couple larger koi and not be afraid of throwing money in the water as they die.
The water lilies are growing like crazy. It's amazing how fast a new shoot reached the surface. Got a bunch more today from Texas Water Lilies. I think I have all colors now. The water hyacynth are in the feeding ring and the fish are constantly pushing them about as they nibble at the roots or something. I have a feeling they think they have some cover among the plants and aren't as afraid to swim at the surface.
Anyway, it's just a report of progress. I still have problems with little fish winding up in the skimmer. Sometimes dead sometimes alive. The bigger ones seem to be smarter and not get caught in the flow.
Fred
I love to buy the little koi, they're so cute! Sounds like you're having fun with that pond, maybe your shubs are too? Could they be mating by any chance, with as warm as your water must be?
Do you have a brush guard over the skimmer entrance? I am thinking of making one for my skimmer this spring. Toad problem.
Ah, fredrump and azreno - such zone envy I have. Today is 19 degrees here, with a solid ice cover on the pond except for the heated openings. Dang! I miss seeing the fish - have fun, you two. Snapple - I've got the same problem - I lost more toads last year in the skimmer than fish. The toads drowned, I believe, whereas the fish seemed to learn not to go near it. What's a brush guard and where do you get one? Dax
Lasy year we went avay for a couple of days and came home to a literal pile of toads in the skimmer, some in various stages of decomposition and a few alive. It was awful. I was recently reading a pond magazine for pros and Atlantic was touting their new brush guard that keeps fish out their skimmer. I found it online. http://www.atlanticwatergardens.com/prod_parts_skimmers.asp
I am going to try to make one for the front of my Savio skimmer for this season. Doesn't look all that difficult or expensive to put together. I have had an occaissional toad or two in the skimmer but last year was unbelievable. The magazine is for pros but anyone can subscribe. I am darn sure no pro but I like to look at the installation and maintenance information. http://www.pondkeeper.com/
What are all your poor toads doing in the ponds? Breeding? I have 3 toads (presumably) that a friend gave me last year, haven't seen them this year so far but certainly didn't find them in the skimmer. We have frogs, never found them in the skimmer either....now I have found fish in the skimmer- the slow fat fancy goldfish LOL
Sorry for your weather Dax, that doesn't sound fun. I've been busy trying to get my pond clean for spring, getting all the lilies out of pots so I can repot them and vaccuuming out all the crud....not sure this would all be worth it for a short growing season, you'd have to really love that pond :o)
I've had company all week and only had a late shot at reading and posting here. To my friends everything here is like magic and wonderful. They hadn't been to Florida since 1969 and never this far south. Time was short but I tried to show them whatever is left of nature around here along with examples of the supreme wealth which is evident all over Naples. A ride through the Port Royal section shows lakes, not just ponds, behind some ocean front houses. Giant waterfalls and fountains can be seen from the road. One can only imagine the life inside the water. I heard of one such owner who has a jet fitted out with koi tanks which he takes to Koi shows all over the world but presumeably mostly Japan. My sources tells me that some of these fish were bought in the 30K category.
This afternoon I played poor little rich boy and bought three 8 to 10 inch standard koi and three butterflys at 6 to 8 inches. None of the many available fish looked anywhere like those in the books which arrived recently. I think it was snapple45 (how in the world do you guys choose these strange handles anyway?) who had me buy all these books. But then I'm not going to exhibit or compete for best koi in class titles anyway.
I also bought some low and regular clay pots for the new lilies which had arrived while my friends were here. Strange little plants coming out of a bulb. Is that how lilies grow new plants via tubers? I hope I'm planting these right. I'm setting them fairly high in the water until they start to grow. Some I set in clay with river rock on top and others I simply set in pea pebbles with larger rocks on top. Somebody here said they use rocks to grow their lilies. So I'm trying both methods. I inserted two little fertilizer tablets which I bought at the nursery which also sells the fish.
Ok, I guess I'm the kid with the new toy in the block but I tend to get passionately involved in my hobbies. This is something I've always wanted to do and life is short so I have to act fast to learn new things. In my younger married life I had fish tanks all over our bedroom and was raising bettas, fancy guppies and that sort of thing but I always wanted a nice pond and here I am at 70 finally getting there. There was never any time or space or something before. I see now how the fish world operates. The big boys become the leaders everyone else follows. Yesterdays shebunken big boys are today's followers of the larger koi. I guess size does matter.
In general my bio-filter seems to be working as designed as the fish are no longer in shock when introduced into the water. My first attempts in a very new pond did not work that way. I have green slime (algea?) forming on the waterfall out of the bio. I guess that's how it is supposed to be? The skimmer bucket also has this stuff all over the bottom. Tough to shale out. My skimmer is a regular pond type skimmer which somehow works with the suction of the pump. No fish in there today. Snapple's links to atlantic water gardens show their filter skimmers but I fail to find a place to closer look at the parts. It seems that product# GK600 or GK900 are the gatekeeper brushes but they are made for their gates. I'll have to measure my concrete hole which leads to the skimmer bucket to see if I can attach something like this on the inside wall of the pond. I can't drill down to these products directly only to their skimmers.
As I'm sitting here at the computer, I have to go to turn the airconditioning on. It's hot here and it's 9PM. Outside it's in the low 80s during the day. Ok, I'm back. If you remember I have three upper pools which serve as a path from the bios to the main pond. Today I figured out what to do with some of this water. The lowest pond will be full of freely floating water hyacinths. The highest at the waterfall will become a marginal bog type thing where I will place a lot of pea gravel in the bottom and place ever larger rocks on top of that. I'll plant various marginals in the gravel. In the middle there will still be a water path over larger river rock. So I went looking for rock. In Naples that is quite an issue as we only have limerock available locally. The largest rock I could find was at $4 per bag for egg river rock. There are some larger rocks in there but most of the mix is regular river gravel. Hunting around I found Kmart had the least expensive gravel ($3.50) but only the pea and small river rock size. For my area I'll need lots of bags. Next week I'll have to go to a few other places to see if I can find larger rock in some quantity. I know it's going to be expensive as I previously bought these round black Mexican rocks by the pound.
I hope the marginals will grow in my gravel idea. Any comments on this?
Fred
PS I'm going out to check on my fish now. It's all lit up back there and they will feed in the light.
azreno, while I was typing you wrote about repotting and vaccuming. Talk to me about that. How often do you have to repot and why? How do you vaccuume? I suppose you have a liner pond? You clean out all debrit at the bottom each year? I can see leaves dropping in down there already and as I'm under palms I can see stuff falling in my summer absence but I have no idea how to get that out when the time comes. Do they sell pond vaccuums?
Fred
Well, I repot the lilies at least once a year, in a really long growing season like yours and mine, though I find I am repotting some twice a year. The hardy lilies will climb right over the edge of the pot! All pond plants like to be repotted, they get crowded very easily, and need their blackened (from being in a pot with no oxygen) and dead roots removed and the pot freshened for the new season. Irises being the exception of course, always pot irises in the fall :o)
In the spring it's always good to vaccuum out all the muck that accumulated in the winter, this would be algae, leaves, actual muck, anything else that falls to the bottom and is decaying. I have an OASE pondovac 3, comes in very handy! There are several pond vacs on the market, this one is about the besat though.
Your marginals will grow very well in the gravel, a bit too well you may find.....pond plants are as a rule invasive.
snapple45 = the amount of diet snapple peach my DH claims I consume in a week. I have one in my hand at all times.
Got the books huh? Dr. Axelrod is THE koi guy. No more authorative source any where.
I too will have to "gerry rig" something with bottle brushes hung from black water pipe and/or a PVC frame to hang at the entrance to the skimmer. Should work and be relatively inexpensive. The toads mate and lay eggs in the pond when the air and water temps are favorable. Last year we counted 15 to 20 pairs of mating toads at the same time in the pond. They are loud too as the males trill for the females. When they all start up at once we have to close the windows to hear the TV! Something about last year's weather brought them out in record numbers. They are absolutely stupid about mating right into the skimmer. They lay masses and masses of black eggs on long strings. They rope across the plants, pots, anything. Next thing you've got a gazillion tadpoles which the koi ignore. Some time later you start seeing tiny toads the size of your little fingernail climbing out of the pond and hopping off. They only go in the water to mate.
Azreno's advice on repotting is right on. I tend to be a little lax in the repotting dept. I know two things for sure. If the lilly leaves start standing up above the water it is time to repot. If the roots push the pot ot of shape you should have repotted last year!
In the mid 80's? Hruumph.
I have a pond vac II. I am not fond of it but it works. The newer model is supposed to be better. Because of the expense I will be stuck with the older model until it croaks. I only vacuum once a season. I keep leaves out of the pond as much as possible as they fall. I don't get a buildup of debris. You definitely dont want a lot of debris accumulating from one season to the next. A layer of bio-film is healthy. Muck is not. Koi are poop factories that need good oxygenation and good water chemistry. In your climate they will really appreciate the shade your plants will provide.
So there is such a thing as a pond vaccuum! I quickly ordered one via ebay for $339. Everyone else seemed to be charging almost 500 bucks.
Back to the repotting - what exactly happens? Does the plant get so big it needs to be divided and only a part is replanted? I have some pretty big pots but you say that wouldn't matter as the roots rot? What is pot refreshioning? Just the replanting process? I can see that as quite a mess with the gravel and rocks on top and the clay below that. I guess everything has to be separated somehow in the repotting process. Besides, these things are heavy. I had a hell of a time just getting them in the water. I don't think I'll like the repotting thing.
So, if these things get so big, what do you do with all the extra lilies?
Fred
The lilies I have so far have rather small leaves floating on the water. Do these leaves keep growing bigger? Or do that just add more leaves?
Where do these frogs come from? I've never seen any here. Yes I have but only really small ones that climb up on everything with their suction pads. I've found them in all kinds of small crevaces and they give me a start as they jump away when caught in their hiding places. But these frogs must be some kind of tree frog.
So I was out there watching the fish zooming about when they should be sleeping or something. Do they ever sleep? They seem to have one hell of a lot of energy. The food I threw in went very quickly. They seem starved. So I gave them some more and down the hatch that went too. I read in the fish place that you're only supposed to feed what they eat in 2 or 3 minutes. Hell it doesn't last half as long. So I guess I'm not giving them enough food? How many times a day should they be fed anyway?
I bought a solar powered koi cafe but haven't installed it yet. The idea is to feed the fish when I'm not here. But I need to know how much they want to eat. The new big ones really gobble up the stuff. I think I need bigger pebbles for them.
As to Axelrod, don't you think he goes overboard for us limited amateurs? I mean who has those fancy $5000 and up filtration systems. And then there are all those fancy koi. Who has such fish? He wants as much room for filtration as for the pond itself to get crystal clear water. He does say that plants are the key to keeping algae to a minimum. So I'm working on that with my lilies.
Fred
LOL So many questions! I can't believe you found the pond vac for so cheap, good job! I was lucky, got mine when they first came out and a vendor on a koi forum was letting us have them cheap, under 300, don't think I could've paid 500 for it.
I meant to say something about your pots.........you called them clay pots, do you meant terracotta? In my experience terracotta pots slowly disintegrate in addition to being VERY heavy to get in and out of the pond. I have one pot that a friend had in their pond and it didn't do that, I think it was very expensive and isn't like my other terracotta pots.
When you repot.....you want to get off all the dead stuff and throw out the old soils and put in all new, then rinse the lily and it's roots off really well. You want to be sure not to put anything dead and decaying in there and you just can't get all the roots out of the soil so you throw it out. Besides, after winter the whole thing has become very anaerobic (black, stinky) and that's not good for any pond plant but especially not good for lilies, so you want to put back in anything that's black and stinky, all fresh!
Extra lilies get traded to nurseries, other gardeners, sold, given away, and thrown away.
The leaves are about full size when they reach the surface....as the plant itself matures and grows, the leaves it sends out get bigger and it sends out more leaves.......trust me, lilies are monsters!
I'm thinking you've got tree frogs. You can get tadpoles from a local watering hole or find a local source that sells tadpoles, they'll turn into frogs eventually.
In summer, my fish get fed as often as I can feed them, their metabolism runs very high when the water is warm. I only just started feeding them 2 weeks ago, they get cut off in winter, even here, I'm feeding them 2-3x day right now, I don't bother with timing them, they're big, I figure they can eat what they want :o)
The koi cafe sounds cool! I want the koi feeder that's like a toy, they come along and pull on the rope and get rewarded, that is cool! Fred, I buy my fish food from the feed store, the pellets that I get are a tad large for little ones, but it pays off with the big guys. In a seasoned pond the little ones are pretty good at finding their own food anyways....algae (not the stringy kind) does have a lot of protein, and they can get into spaces the big ones can't and get the baby snails and whatnot.
Axelrod? I had no idea he was such a koi pro.......I have one of his tropical fish encyclopedias, I remember using him as a great reference when I was really into aquariums. There are some real koi fanatics out there and they wouldn't dare put any plants in with the koi.....they like to control every aspect of the water thru filtration, lots and lots.
Just you wait! Koi fever will hit. You will find yourself spotting the better bred ones pretty quickly. You can get Isreali imported purebrd koi of very good show quality for about $150.00 (6 -8"). At least you could up to this year. There are some pretty tight koi import restrictions this year due to spring viremia of carp. It is a nasty "Carp Pox" that if it escapes into the wild will cause severe fish problems. This will probably push up imported prices. MY DH gets me a gift certificate for my birthday to the local pond store that imports and I put in my order in November for spring. You can also spend a lot more, but if I did and the fish died, my DH would probably throw me in the burial hole with it.
With Axelrod don't get flustered over the complex expensive filtration systems, it's recognizing and achieving the goals that make for happy fish. I belong to the school of "whatever works".
Ok 'school of whatever works' I think my pond is getting greener by the day. At first I thought it was me with my messing with the pots and gravel that was mucking things up but algae is growing fast along the waterfall too. I guess you call it string algae as I can see long strings floating on the top of the waterfall and along the downflow. Everything is turning green. I guess the heat and the sun is hitting the pond before the lilies are able to shade things but they wouldn't affect the exterior portions anyway. At least it's now a living pond. I checked the chemical composition and while the pH and alkalyne content is still up there, the water is no longer hard. So something happened there.
So, exactly how does one control the algae without ultra violet rays or other exotic measures? I thought the bio filter was supposed to trap this stuff. Does bacteria solution help or hinder the algae growth process? I still have a quart of that stuff.
Fred
PS My wife found the receipt for yesterday's fish buy. She just shakes her accusing head at me.
PPS not that I want to buy any more fish right now but how do you buy fish at the $150+ price level. Do get a picture first or is this pot luck?
I put in my request with my local koi importer. I ask for a specific breed type. My last order was for a Aka Bekko and a Showa. This place is very reputable. No deposit is required. If the fish does not come in true to type or is not a good representation I don't have to take it. Last summer I found a teriffic kawarimono black & white with German scalation (just like the pic in Axelrod's book p172) at another garden center/pond store. This koi was bred in the US. It was a 10" steal at $42.00. That fish and the Aka Bekko have been real show stoppers in the pond. The Showa I think could be a little better.
About the algae. String algae is the hardest thing to get under control. It thrives in full sun and loves water falls. Search around these forums for algae control etc. in warm climates. There is plenty of advice to be had. Since you have a very long warm season my advice might not be the best. Except this - I think it is too soon to worry about it. This is still a relatively new pond and it hasn't found its balance yet. A big algae bloom is common in a new pond (and spring start up in established ponds). In my particular situation I do use two 25 watt uv's built in to the skimmer and my pond is only a paltry 2000 gal. compared to yours. I also use S.A.B. Extreme by EcoSystems. I have no algae at all and crystal clear water. S.A.B. stands for string algae buster. But, my pond is five years old and I have tried a lot of stuff. I suggest waiting a bit before you add anything else to the pond. You could try barley bales for natural control. It does work well, is all natural and good in warm climates. It won't upset anything. It takes a few weeks for it to get cranking and works best if placed in an area of water movement.
The bacteria won't have any direct effect on the algae. Sun and nutrients in the water feed the algae. Your pond does need the bacteria to convert the ammonia (fish waste) to nitrites and then to nitrates. The nitrites and the nitrates are algae food, as well as any uneaten fish food. Time, you need time, to let this whole thing gets its balance. Fish load, hours of sun, amount fed, water movement, all play a role.
Get used to the spouse head shaking.
Clay works for me to control algae. A basic explanation is that there is all this stuff in your water that feed the algae....not just poo but what's in your tap water. The clay attaches to a lot of these things and sinks to the bottom, making it unavailable to the algae because it's "attached" to something else. Clay also does this to the heavy metals in tap water and adds micronutrients that are good for koi. You would want calcium bentonite clay specifically and can buy it it at a great cost (for a sizable pond) packaged for ponds, but a lot of that stuff is mined here in AZ so I used my old clay soil (no organics!), does the job for me :o)